Not Gonna Buy Any More Premixed E-juice. EVER.

[kenetix]

I completely empathize with your sentiment. At the same time, I've really looked into this and it may be a bit of an overstatement to call the current market overpriced. With everything included, I determined that I could produce (and sell) commercial e-liquid for a 8.04 per 30ml basic cost...just under the established 100% retail markup...this takes into account alot of things that go along with running a commercial e-liquid business...like for example an effective 9% cc processing fee (7.95% + gateway fees + costly setup fees + .25 per charge, etc) and this is because e-cigs (and hence e-liquid) is considered the "high risk of the high risk" industry. Then there is website hosting, and a ton of smaller expenses you would never think of that all add up. Of course you can make it yourself for much, much, less (I DIY myself, and I commend your intelligent choice) but could you SELL it for much, much less? Not really. I feel like it's a pretty good overall industy, and one that the long-time vaper with common sense (and time and the inclination to DIY) is almost certainly going to abandon at some point...but I don't think anyone is inflating the pricing unduly.

I think it is possible to sell for less. This is only my opinion though. I'm not the person to get into it yet or ever because I have time and resources devoted elsewhere but here would be my breakdown

7.95 webhosting
20.00 gallon vg
20.00 gallon pg
25.00 50 ml of pure nicotine - or diy 100mg 500ml 100.00
75.00 various flavors and mixing gear (pipettes bottles and etc)
50.00 protective gear (hood and chemical resistent gear)
250.00 various fees etc (the cost of gateway for payments easily fits in this price with extra left over)

we will round up to 500.00

not that I am saying anyone should do it this way, but if I was this is how I would

with this setup you could assume that you could make 252 30ml bottles for sale at 5.00 each making 1260.00

for 5.00 each... more then doubling money

 

[the ob]

ok, so final answer.

should I premix the PG/VG/PG with nic into the percentage I want in some larger quantities?

How exactly would one do that if the % of flavor might change from flavor to flavor?

 

[jakerock]

I got some of my DIY gear in yesterday and played around to make a simple juice with my Flavor West USA Tobacco concentrate. It didnt turn out very well, and I think it is because I dont like the FW liquid in the first place.

Also, when the FW bottle says that it is meant to be used @ .25% to .50% dilution, they arent kidding...

I have a theory that SOME of what I object to in the flavor has to do with the fact that there seems to be a lot of alcohol in it. I would like to try to figure out how to rapidly evaporate the alcohol out of it and give it another chance before I get rid of it.

Thumbs down on the FW USA Tobacco flavor. It just had to be too good to be true as it was like $6 for 4 oz.

If I remember correctly, to rapidly remove alcohol by evaporation I could put some of the liquid in an open bottle, and let that bottle sit in a pan of hot water. Or is there a better way? Thanks all!

 

[Emris]

I think it is possible to sell for less. This is only my opinion though. I'm not the person to get into it yet or ever because I have time and resources devoted elsewhere but here would be my breakdown

7.95 webhosting
20.00 gallon vg
20.00 gallon pg
25.00 50 ml of pure nicotine - or diy 100mg 500ml 100.00
75.00 various flavors and mixing gear (pipettes bottles and etc)
50.00 protective gear (hood and chemical resistent gear)
250.00 various fees etc (the cost of gateway for payments easily fits in this price with extra left over)

we will round up to 500.00

not that I am saying anyone should do it this way, but if I was this is how I would

with this setup you could assume that you could make 252 30ml bottles for sale at 5.00 each making 1260.00

for 5.00 each... more then doubling money

That sounds about right, now take in all of your overhead. Rent, insurance for rental, libility and other, payroll, taxes and so on. You will find that the cost you have posted will have jumped up considerately. Not that all vendors fall under this criteria but i know that a lot of them do. Dont forget the power company will want their money too.

 

[Turnip]

Anyone know of a vendor that sells real cheap nic? Remember it was mentioned in a thread before but, I can't seem to find it.

I get mine now from RTS, very good nic..

 

[ltrainer]

That sounds about right, now take in all of your overhead. Rent, insurance for rental, libility and other, payroll, taxes and so on. You will find that the cost you have posted will have jumped up considerately. Not that all vendors fall under this criteria but i know that a lot of them do. Dont forget the power company will want their money too.

Yes and on top of that you have life. Car tires, foods, kids education, insurance, utilties, etc.

 

[canoeist]

Are you going to keep it a secret?

I stole the idea from a post in the DIY forum and changed it a little.

I am making an 80/20 15mg liquid. So this is what I did to test:

I mixed 15ml at 80/20 15mg. No flavor.
Then I took a 6ml bottle (any small one will work)
Drip 20 drops of the no flavor mixture in the small bottle.
Add 1 drop of flavor to the 20 drops of base liquid. This is about a 5% mixture.
Shake it up and drip into an atty to sample.
You can put plain vg in the atty & blow it out & vape the plain vg to clear the atty out for testing another flavor.

This gives you a good idea of the flavor only using only 1-2 drops. You could always adjust and use 20/2 or 30/2 drops, etc.
You should make sure all of the drops are close in size, this will give you a good start on your flavor %.

 

[canoeist]

ok, so final answer.

should I premix the PG/VG/PG with nic into the percentage I want in some larger quantities?

How exactly would one do that if the % of flavor might change from flavor to flavor?

I would not premix the Nic/PG/VG. It is easy enough to mix as you need it. I try real hard not to do something that I cannot undo. Especially in a large quantity. Lot of difference having to pour 15ml down the drain and pouring 250ml down.

I have been making 60ml of my daily vape using the graduated cylinders to measure. Easy once you figure out what you like.

 

[tmcase]

ok, so final answer.

should I premix the PG/VG/PG with nic into the percentage I want in some larger quantities?

How exactly would one do that if the % of flavor might change from flavor to flavor?

I premix my nic juice with PG at the % that I vape at in 30 ml bottles. Then when I want to mix up a batch of juice I only have to add the flavoring. It's just easier for me that way. I don't know if that answers you question or not but gives you something more to think about.

 

[tmcase]

If I remember correctly, to rapidly remove alcohol by evaporation I could put some of the liquid in an open bottle, and let that bottle sit in a pan of hot water. Or is there a better way? Thanks all!

I would think that just leaving the bottles open for a couple days would cause the alcohol to evaporate but I could be wrong about that. Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[the ob]

ugh. was I supposed to get graduated cylinders? all the crap I ordered and I did not order these.

 

[Rudy956]

Your going to love DIY! I've only bought 1 30 ML bottle of juice and that was because it came with an overpriced starter kit. I remember I got ripped off with that kit paid 100 dollars for a pv that was worth less than 30. I decided to go into DIY and I have never looked back!

 

[davelog]

ugh. was I supposed to get graduated cylinders? all the crap I ordered and I did not order these.

I have a 10ml graduated cylinder that I ordered when I first started, and I've never used it. I move all my ingredients with either pipettes or syringes into their destination bottle as I'm mixing so the cylinder has never come into play. Nice to have, I suppose, but I wouldn't call it necessary unless you're making large batches fast.

 

[Rudy956]

One tip I have I grab a 100 ML bottle and I premix the pg vg and nicotine in (I always vape 75%(pg) 25%(vg)) that way its ready to go into my reo and i just add the flavoring to my reo bottle.

 

[jfresh]

I think it is possible to sell for less. This is only my opinion though. I'm not the person to get into it yet or ever because I have time and resources devoted elsewhere but here would be my breakdown

7.95 webhosting
20.00 gallon vg
20.00 gallon pg
25.00 50 ml of pure nicotine - or diy 100mg 500ml 100.00
75.00 various flavors and mixing gear (pipettes bottles and etc)
50.00 protective gear (hood and chemical resistent gear)
250.00 various fees etc (the cost of gateway for payments easily fits in this price with extra left over)

we will round up to 500.00

not that I am saying anyone should do it this way, but if I was this is how I would

with this setup you could assume that you could make 252 30ml bottles for sale at 5.00 each making 1260.00

for 5.00 each... more then doubling money

I get your breakdown...but it's flawed in a couple areas: first, the 9% cc fee can't be summed up with a $250 FLAT RATE...it's 9+% on EVERY SALE...

and your hosting may cost 7.95 a month if youre unlucky enough to get very little traffic..real webhosting for sites that do steady business STARTS at $25 a month and depending on your bandwidth usage could easily run $175 a month...the "unlimited bandwidth" lie is a well-documented fraud...read the fine print...ALSO

$75 for flavors AND mixing gear ..I think that's low..
Also where are the bottles, the labels, the advertising budget?
No, my $8.04 number wasn't quick math, but a result given by business plan pro after inputting all the REAL expenses, yes including a modest salary as well, because you have to consider that an expense, not part of your profit if you plan on growing your business (which is smart on many levels, not just taxes.) And oh, yeah taxes! almost forgot those...

Anyway, it's a tough business from one perspective for sure: You could invest heavily in it, and before you've even broken even the FEDS could shut you down completely without a moments notice. (looking quite likely at the moment--vote Ron Paul!)


Great discussion! DIY forever!

 

[kenetix]

That sounds about right, now take in all of your overhead. Rent, insurance for rental, libility and other, payroll, taxes and so on. You will find that the cost you have posted will have jumped up considerately. Not that all vendors fall under this criteria but i know that a lot of them do. Dont forget the power company will want their money too.

I am willing to bet most of these places do not have 3000+ sq ft of store front rental property (exception madvapes, myfreedomsmokes, kalamazoovapor, and elctronicnickstix). I say this because I went to I think at the time it was called zigcig's place (local place here in/or was in illinois not sure if he is around anymore). The dude ran it out of his garage and had several shelfs in it with tons of stuff in boxes on the shelves. He had a computer in the garage with a printer for printing shipping labels etc. Cool guy I used to go there and hang out in his garage sampling his juice prior to buying. He sold kits that were gift boxed from the factory. I was simply stating that yes it is easy to produce 30 ml of liquid at a cheap price with good quality etc. As far as overhead ins. and employees while this is a possibility I don't think many of the juice vendors fit into the size or overhead the few I listed have. They also carry much more of a product line then just juice. It is a great way to make money no doubt and some people will see the value in buying premixed "premium juice" while others won't. When I smoked a I was a roll your own type person who used stuff like drum or many of the other "premium" tobaccos not to save money to but smoke a more high quality cigarette.

Just like cooking at home some people who can cook do produce food as good if not better then what they get out. People that state McDonalds is a good quality food also think fish sticks constitute a well rounded meal when accoumpanied with a pabst blue ribbon. To each there own though.

 

[the ob]

I totally understand that complaining about the vendors and their juice prices totally make sense in this thread, but I do wish we could get back to helping us DIY dummies figure out how to make juice

 

[kenetix]

I totally understand that complaining about the vendors and their juice prices totally make sense in this thread, but I do wish we could get back to helping us DIY dummies figure out how to make juice

ok so what questions do you still have remaining?

 

[tmcase]

One tip I have I grab a 100 ML bottle and I premix the pg vg and nicotine in (I always vape 75%(pg) 25%(vg)) that way its ready to go into my reo and i just add the flavoring to my reo bottle.

That's exactly what I do only I use a 120ml bottle.

 

[washvap]

Well, I just took the plunge. Got myself:

120ml of 60mg nic, PG, and VG
10 syringes
5 4ml flavorings from PA.

Hoping it arrives soon so that I can do some experiments.