NY Times - Joe Nocera: Nicotine without death

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Bill Godshall

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Since the NY Times is the official ANTZ newspaper, its not surprising that lots of ANTZ wrote comments criticizing Nocera's column.

And yet, Nocera's column repeated and gave credence to the inaccurate claim by longtime ANTZ Ken Warner (who has deceptively portrayed himself as an objective public health expert) that the public health community is split into three factions. In fact, there are only two factions: THR advocates and THR opponents.
Warner claims that Traditionalists are different from the Endgamers in an attempt to portray a split that doesn't exist in reality.
 

Kent C

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In fact, there are only two factions: THR advocates and THR opponents.
Warner claims that Traditionalists are different from the Endgamers in an attempt to portray a split that doesn't exist in reality.

That was my first thought. Oh... there may be factions within the THR opponents who would like to be able _by force_ to reduce nicotine or like in that one proposal - restrict products to 'those who may quit' vs. the hard core users, but it's like any group who have 'dreamers' and 'realists' :)
 

DrMA

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Comment by Gil Ross - illuminating, as always:
What Mr. Nocera missed in his otherwise perceptive article is that the predictions of E-cig/vapor overtaking deadly combustibles relies to a large extent on this innovative, disruptive, miraculous "industry" being allowed to flourish and grow innovatively — or will it be strangled in its crib by corrupt and agenda-driven manipulation and "regulation." He perhaps should have noted that the "public health" groups massed in opposition to E-cigs have no scientific nor medical basis for their phony alarms about "toxic chemicals" and other myths they promulgate, led by the CDC and FDA. Academic centers and nonprofits (AHA ALA Am.Cancer Soc et al) are in the pocket of Big Pharma--it would astound anyone to learn how much financial support the marketers of nearly-useless patches gums and drugs donate to these nonprofits, who by the way never disclose this "pay for play" interaction while they travel round the country testifying before panels to ban and "regulate" likely-harmless E-cigs; the politicians they plead their case before have already made up their minds as well, given that their budgets depend on cigarette excise taxes and MSA transfer payments. The losers? Smokers trying to quit and public health. What a bizarre, perverse situation. Gil Ross MD/ACSH
 

catlady60

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Since the NY Times is the official ANTZ newspaper, its not surprising that lots of ANTZ wrote comments criticizing Nocera's column.

And yet, Nocera's column repeated and gave credence to the inaccurate claim by longtime ANTZ Ken Warner (who has deceptively portrayed himself as an objective public health expert) that the public health community is split into three factions. In fact, there are only two factions: THR advocates and THR opponents.
Warner claims that Traditionalists are different from the Endgamers in an attempt to portray a split that doesn't exist in reality.

The "Endgamers" are the prohibitionist extremists who want see nicotine in all its forms (except for BP's crap) criminalized as if nic were the same as currently illegal substances that actually kill you. In other words, the Endgamers are ANTZ on steroids who have no qualms about having prisons full of vapers.
 

Kent C

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The "Endgamers" are the prohibitionist extremists who want see nicotine in all its forms (except for BP's crap) criminalized as if nic were the same as currently illegal substances that actually kill you. In other words, the Endgamers are ANTZ on steroids who have no qualms about having prisons full of vapers.

But the 'Traditionalists' would do the same IF they thought they could get away with it. The difference isn't in substance, but in method. The 'eventuality' of socialism is part of the philosophy (which is false, but they believe it), so many (the traditionalists) aren't in a rush for results like some 'radicals' (endgamers) in their movement - but the ideas driving the movement are the same. ... vs. THR (some of whom have more traditionalist ideas but think THR is the best method).

While all are still part of the larger 'stop smoking' movement, the THR's methods are so much different to separate them from the others, who want no part of THR.
 

Nate760

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Thanks, but.... I don't have the pharmaphobia as some do. The 'stop smoking' movement has been going on long before we ever saw patches or gum... or Chantix.

Fact: I'm so old I remember when it was permissible for anti-smoking ads to suggest that if you smoke, you should try to smoke less.
 
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