Official DNA 40 introduction

[peraspera]

I am pretty sure that heating metal and letting it cool slowly is called annealing which leaves the wire even more ductile. It is only when you heat a metal and then quench it that is becomes harder.

I couldn't find a lot out there about what happens to Ni200 when heated but this Ulbrich Ni200 datasheet is somewhat helpful.

Nickel 200 is not recommended for service above 600°F (316°C) because long-time exposures in the 800°F to 1200°F range result in precipitation of a carbon containing phase and loss of ductility.
...
Properties: Tempered
Nickel 200 can be cold rolled to various tempers. Contact Ulbrich Technical Service for additional information
...
Heat Treatment
Nickel 200 is non hardenable by heat treatment.

 

[jaxgator]

That does it. Contact coils for me on my next build(s). Thanks Kiwi!

 

[rusirius]

Hmmm... weren't most people who were dry burning doing it with TP on, or am I imagining that?

There were many who said they were doing it this way. In my own personal opinion it was pointless. I've left TP turned on and set for my normal setting. Dry burn the coils. They warm up, and depending on setting sometimes just start to discolor slightly in some areas. But despite how much you do this, if you turn TP off and fire it I've always found the coil to STILL be burning badly. Usually just one or two legs getting all the heat. It's only after slightly glowing and scrunching like a normal kanthal build (just not glowing so much) that it settles down and begins firing the way it show, from the inside out and evenly.

 

[DejayRezme]

The thing though, even when I was pulsing my 28ga 3/32 id 14 wraps build at 7 watts (THATS a HUGE amount of mass to heat up with 7 watts) THE MOMENT the coil even starts to remotely glow, the wire changes color significantly. It turns darkish purple. So physically it does indeed undergo some kind of change.

Thanks Kiwi! I'll be trying that as well. So far I have avoided glowing contact coils because my very first experiments where bad with it. But I guess just a little glow is key here.

I'd be very curious to know about what happens and how.

 

[TheKiwi]

Thanks Kiwi! I'll be trying that as well. So far I have avoided glowing contact coils because my very first experiments where bad with it. But I guess just a little glow is key here.

I'd be very curious to know about what happens and how.

Haha yeah. Maybe try pulsing it with something like 3 to 5 watts. I imagine the glow will be truly minimal. Although it might take a long long time. But yeap. I've really getting much better performance with contact coils AFTER pulsing + compressing. Without almost always left me with hot legs


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[Nomoreash]

With my pulsing I've tried to see how low I can go and still get a decent glow in a reasonable amount of time, If I remember correctly that was between 7 and 8 watts using 28ga and a contact coil which is all I use if at all possible. Tried using 30ga but 28 is soooo much easier for me to work with and doing contact I trade diameter for length to get the resistance high enough. I've went as big as 1/8" diameter, don't know how much or if any larger I'd want to go though. I'm also finding the accelerated ramp up feature making longer lengths of 28ga more usable with less lag time.

 

[VBdev]

Mine keeps switching back and forth between temp protection on and temp protection off? The coil is spaced and resistance on the mod usually reads .18 or .20, though I've seen it at .15 and .24 and many places in between. This is in the correct range, TP mode tends to go off when reading over .2 but its not consistent. It'll switch in the middle of a drag.

Sometimes I can trick "new coil" prompt into coming up and other times not. Do I have a flakey board that should be sent in or is this resolvable? Do I need to keep trying different coils or mess with the 510????

Any help greatly appreciated. This is on a XPV bought the day of release.

 

[DejayRezme]

I finally made a titanium build dual coil 9/10 wraps around a M3 screw ID 2.9mm came out with 0.29 ohm using 27/28 AWG grade 2 pure titanium wire (0.34mm). Interestingly steam engine lists quite different resistances for grade 1 and grade 2 titanium even though they are supposed to both be almost pure.

Used a space coil just to be sure and pinched it a little. Turned TC off and dry burned the coil carefully and pinching it until it glowed evenly. There definitely was a change in the first glow (uneven) and the final result. Not sure if this is due to pinching or due to slight surface coating or change during dry burning.

Anyway at 320°F setting for titanium it vapes great. That setting should be equal to about 470°F but it actually feels really cool like it's 400°F. So for me it was more 80% of the nickel temperature but it might be bad post connection on my current build.

So I'm now rather sure this table is incorrect but I'll post it again anyway here as a starting point. Google spreadsheet. Check out the math it seems the temperature needs to be higher than the table. First column is the temp in Fahrenheit you would set for nickel, third column the respective temperature in Fahrenheit you would set for pure titanium.

Curiously I didn't have a screen glitch yet with the titanium wire lol but I'm sure it's just coinkydink.

I wonder if it's also possible that the higher resistance of the titanium wire is actually increasing the accuracy of the temperature measuring since an analog digital converter might be more precise at higher values if they use a linear scale instead of a logarithmic scale.

TLDR: Titanium wire seems to works great with TC with the DNA40!

 

[DejayRezme]

Mine keeps switching back and forth between temp protection on and temp protection off? The coil is spaced and resistance on the mod usually reads .18 or .20, though I've seen it at .15 and .24 and many places in between.

Then you definitely have a connectivity problem. The only problem with the chip is the screen glitch issue, they are a problems with additional resistance either from:
510 connector / pin
Through hole posts / post connectivity issue
Internal atomizer resistance
Internal wiring of the mod

PS: So it could be a connectivity problem with your mod but it can also be a problem with your atomizer or your post connection. But not with the chip itself.

 

[TheKiwi]

And time to eat humble pie!

My vaporshark has officially stopped asking me if I have a new coil on, except on some random occasions. Even plonking on a kanthal build, sometimes it just switches to non-TP mode. Yup!


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[DejayRezme]

Well the sure fire way to get new coil prompt has been posted a while back:

Unscrew atty, fire, hold fire and screw atty down until new prompt, click up for yes, unscrew again, fire, screw down fast and fire to get new prompt.

 

[VBdev]

Then you definitely have a connectivity problem. The only problem with the chip is the screen glitch issue, they are a problems with additional resistance either from:
510 connector / pin
Through hole posts / post connectivity issue
Internal atomizer resistance
Internal wiring of the mod

PS: So it could be a connectivity problem with your mod but it can also be a problem with your atomizer or your post connection. But not with the chip itself.

Thanks for the feedback. The screen hasn't done any of the wonky stuff Ive seen pics of here. After posting I had taken the RTA off to check the resistance on my external meter (.17) and had some condensation. After cleaning that up it was solid for about an hour, now its back to flipping back and forth, and since im at the bottom of a tank i'm getting occasional light dry hit this is supposed to fix. I want to love the DNA40, but this flakeyness (which very well may be caused by connection, operator error, or other) has me vaping the erlK on PapsX more often than not still.

 

[turbocad6]

I installed my dna40 myself and I used 16ga silver coated wire and really solid connections throughout with a solid 510 connection and I've had no issues from day one... I've seen many problems here with the hannas and the flasks, but has anyone done a really solid install themselves and still had all of these issues?

 

[350ZMO]

Thanks for the feedback. The screen hasn't done any of the wonky stuff Ive seen pics of here. After posting I had taken the RTA off to check the resistance on my external meter (.17) and had some condensation. After cleaning that up it was solid for about an hour, now its back to flipping back and forth, and since im at the bottom of a tank i'm getting occasional light dry hit this is supposed to fix. I want to love the DNA40, but this flakeyness (which very well may be caused by connection, operator error, or other) has me vaping the erlK on PapsX more often than not still.

Check posts, post screws and center 510 screw on the atty, this is exactly what happened when my center pin screw was loose. My XPV was ordered day after release no issues with it.

View attachment 389315

 

[DejayRezme]

has anyone done a really solid install themselves and still had all of these issues?

Well one had these issues with the cana clone case from FT but fixed it by sanding / cleaning the area where the ground wire with the ear gets screwed on. I think someone send back their flask and it worked better afterwards. Not sure who it was.

 

[KGie]

That's great DR. Two questions, one for you, and one for anyone reading this that might have any thoughts/insights/knowledge etc. on the matter..

DR: what atty are you using?

And for anyone that cares to chime in: can anyone think of any reason why a nickel build would be preferable to Ti, other than having to get to know a new tamperature scale. (Which I might not even have to bother with since I'm thinking of starting with Ti and skipping Ni altogether.)

I finally made a titanium build dual coil 9/10 wraps around a M3 screw ID 2.9mm came out with 0.29 ohm using 27/28 AWG grade 2 pure titanium wire (0.34mm). Interestingly steam engine lists quite different resistances for grade 1 and grade 2 titanium even though they are supposed to both be almost pure.

Used a space coil just to be sure and pinched it a little. Turned TC off and dry burned the coil carefully and pinching it until it glowed evenly. There definitely was a change in the first glow (uneven) and the final result. Not sure if this is due to pinching or due to slight surface coating or change during dry burning.

Anyway at 320°F setting for titanium it vapes great. That setting should be equal to about 470°F but it actually feels really cool like it's 400°F. So for me it was more 80% of the nickel temperature but it might be bad post connection on my current build.

So I'm now rather sure this table is incorrect but I'll post it again anyway here as a starting point. Google spreadsheet. Check out the math it seems the temperature needs to be higher than the table. First column is the temp in Fahrenheit you would set for nickel, third column the respective temperature in Fahrenheit you would set for pure titanium.

Curiously I didn't have a screen glitch yet with the titanium wire lol but I'm sure it's just coinkydink.

I wonder if it's also possible that the higher resistance of the titanium wire is actually increasing the accuracy of the temperature measuring since an analog digital converter might be more precise at higher values if they use a linear scale instead of a logarithmic scale.

TLDR: Titanium wire seems to works great with TC with the DNA40!

 

[350ZMO]

I installed my dna40 myself and I used 16ga silver coated wire and really solid connections throughout with a solid 510 connection and I've had no issues from day one... I've seen many problems here with the hannas and the flasks, but has anyone done a really solid install themselves and still had all of these issues?

I used high temp 18 gauge as cited by the datasheet as maximum size and have had zero issues since build 10/19/2014. Should complete my second build when parts arrive Friday.

 

[DejayRezme]

I'm using the Magma right now with through hole posts. I initially had a 0.28 ohm resistance but now 0.29 ohm even after cooling, so there might be some very small connectivity issues, but might have been the coil before dry burning.

Titanium wire is definitely much better so far. The 0.34mm wire is much stiffer / springy but this might be different between grade 1 / grade 2 titanium wire. Wrapping might be a tad harder but the coils are much more stable. The larger diameter ensures a larger surface area (good for a cool vape I guess) and together with higher resistance allows to use smaller coils. Even though I've got used to the ~3mm ID by now.

Vaping at 330°F / 40 Watts now. You'll probably have to adjust the temperature by experimenting a bit.

 

[rusirius]

I installed my dna40 myself and I used 16ga silver coated wire and really solid connections throughout with a solid 510 connection and I've had no issues from day one... I've seen many problems here with the hannas and the flasks, but has anyone done a really solid install themselves and still had all of these issues?

Yes... I'm an EE so I'd consider my build a solid one. I design and build all sorts of electronics with MCU's etc. My first board had the "screen glitch" which unlike stated a few posts back, DOES cause more than just the screen glitch. Mine suffered a lot of random issues like changing the base resistance, switching from TP to regular mode on it's own, etc... None of which were related to the coil or connection issues. My second board (which was very noticeable that it was slightly revised) has had no issues at all.

 

[rusirius]

That's great DR. Two questions, one for you, and one for anyone reading this that might have any thoughts/insights/knowledge etc. on the matter..

DR: what atty are you using?

And for anyone that cares to chime in: can anyone think of any reason why a nickel build would be preferable to Ti, other than having to get to know a new tamperature scale. (Which I might not even have to bother with since I'm thinking of starting with Ti and skipping Ni altogether.)

The only possible reason is accuracy... The temperature coefficient of resistivity of titanium has a lower alpha than nickel. This is why the temperature scale is thrown off. It changes the scale, but if the accuracy of the nickel is +/- 10 degrees (I think that's the value I heard quoted) then if the alpha is half for titanium then it's going to be +/- 20 degrees. So you're going from a 20 degree deviation to 40 degrees.

Otherwise there really isn't any issue that I can think of.