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Setup A - 0.9 ohms 26g Kanthal = 105 square mm surface area
Setup B - 0.8 ohms 26g Kanthal = 94 square mm surface area
Ni200 suggestions:
14 turns on a 2.4mm mandrel (mandrel size you said you use) of 30g Ni200 = 101 square mm surface area and 0.25 ohms
10 or 11 turns on a 2.4mm mandrel (mandrel size you said you use) of 28g Ni200 = 96 or 104 square mm surface area and 0.12 or 0.13 ohms
I don't have a DNA40 yet but am thinking if you want to match a Ni200 vape to a Kanthal vape then start with similar wire surface area and watts and tune it from there. Use the temp control to get the taste/flavor you want. After you find the taste/flavor you like, you might find you have too much or not enough vapor. If you need more vapor wind a coil with more surface area, or for less vapor wind a coil with less surface area.
I will try to increase the surface area, but I feel like at some point with a kayfun that having too many wraps will have decreasing margins of benefit as the air hole is kinda small, no?
(not saying that 14 wraps is too much, just saying)
Hmmmm.....
Following thread, closely mind, and I almost got it but........
If you can set the desired temperature, why would you also set the watts?
Rather, help this ol' bag' o' bones better understand the relationship of the two, temp and watts, as it pertains to a dna40 rig.
Following thread, closely mind, and I almost got it but........
If you can set the desired temperature, why would you also set the watts?
Rather, help this ol' bag' o' bones better understand the relationship of the two, temp and watts, as it pertains to a dna40 rig.
Longer coils heat up slowly... So higher watts mean coils heat faster... Also if your watts are too low the coils may never heat up to temp... Some have recommended just setting the watts to the highest and let temp control do the rest...
That helps Heespharm, so close to gettin' in synch with the concept.
Of course the obvious thing to do would be to get me hands on one and play....
Of course the obvious thing to do would be to get me hands on one and play....
Always the best.
My goal has always been this:
View attachment 383648
A cool dense flavor packed vape.
Not this:
View attachment 383649
And not this:
View attachment 383650
Based on my vaping experience with DNA40, A Kayfun, A Kaiser, a Fogger V5, A BIG Fogger with dual horizontal coils, A BIG Fogger with dual vertical coils (note these are all tanks RTAs) having done builds with 28, 30 and 32 gauge Ni200, this is what I have learned:
1. Temperature = Taste (cool or warm)
2. Power = Volume (weak or rich - density)
3. I do not like setting power to max and letting it rip because you will get this:
View attachment 383651
A weak, less dense vaporized juice to air ratio.
You won't get dry hits but you will get hits where the flavor is weak (less volume), try setting the power down to where TC is no longer kicking in and you'll get that rich flavor back. Improving juice flow on your build or on a tank, altering your draw technique (eg inhaling sharply or inhale, fire, let-go, stop inhaling) will affect the power level your atty can sustain. I don't use a dripper but I've seen those that do say the same thing, they can tell when it's time to add more juice. The vape gets weak. The DNA40 gives you a visual cue, TC kicks in and you get TP messages.
By lowering power to what your rig and your draw can sustain without TC kicking in means you can enjoy a tank full of rich flavor until you get to that point it is time to refill. Or set it to max power and enjoy a tank full of weak vape.
On a tank, the vacuum created by your draw brings in more juice. That's why drilling out an air hole can be a really bad idea. But there are some that flow juice so well that they can be. The atty design and your build determines juice flow rate. On a tank, fluid level also has an effect on juice flow rate, some designs and builds more than others. There are also some tanks whose chimney chamber is too close to the tank wall for thick juice ie 100%VG.
This was true of kanthal and now as well with Ni200. Talking coils where the wick is in the center of the coil, you can get the coil too long. The name of the game to more power and still have a dense vape is surface area of heating element in contact with juice. But as the coil gets longer, the wick length gets longer, and the wick gets dry in the middle of the coil when chain vaping. When that happens the coil heats up even if the middle of the coil is directly over the air hole. The TC on the 40 protects your taste - it won't get hotter than what you set it at but volume or density of vaporized juice to air ratio suffers. Also keep in mind the 40 is calculating the temperature based on the resistance of the total length of wire, that means the entire coil including the ends to posts, the ends of the coil and the middle. These three 'zones' will all be at different temperatures. I think of it as an average temperature setting. The middle may be hotter than the ends but your temperature setting is for the average. I find that a coil with a ratio of length to diameter of 1.5 or less to be optimum. When that ratio approaches 2 or more is where I find the middle gets noticeably drier.
Also in general, wick length from juice channel to coil is important. The shorter that distance is and the less wick the more juice you can flow and the higher power the build can sustain. This is largely dependent on atty design. Some designs allow you to augment the wicking inside the chamber for a better reservoir of juice closer to the coil, the limiting factor becomes the juice channels and air hole position ie flooding and leaking. For example on the kayfun, the air hole and coil is raised above the juice channel. This increases wick length. It can be mitigated by putting extra wicking on the deck to serve as a reservoir closer to the coil. The Kaiser whose juice channels are at the same height as the coil which minimizes wick length flows far better and can sustain more power than the Kayfun. However, since the airhole is below juice channel height it is somewhat difficult to wick at the point where it flows juice really well without leaking. The Kayfun is much easier to wick in this regard. But get the wicking right and the Kaiser outperforms the Kayfun.
So far the BIG fogger with twin vertical coils (the air hole is in the center of the coil and the wicking is wrapped on the outside of the coil) is king. The entire length of the coil sees the same airflow. But even it is limited to sustaining 30W. On the big, the top of the coils are the farthest away from the juice channels while the bottom of the coils are sitting right on the deck around the air holes and closest to the juice channels. But even on this where you can pack extra wicking for a reservoir and use large 3mm diameter coils of 28 gauge Ni200, it is still limited to sustaining 30W. Raising the power to 40 watts where TC kicks in the vape gets weak. I find it is better to take 2 draws at 30W where it sustains that power than one draw at 40W where TC kicks in.
YMMV, let us know what you find.
P.S. The DNA40 with TC is a great tool for diagnosing your builds and comparing attys if you understand what Brandon said with Power=Volume and Taste = Temperature. The TC protects from burning, cracking, oxidizing or otherwise changing the chemical structure of your e-juice. Unless you set the Temperature too high or come up with a really long build that gets ultrahot in the middle. I get the feeling that some folks are going to be very unhappy with how their juice actually tastes because they have been burning/cracking their juice and they think that is how it should taste. They may even try to blame it on the 40. The BIG fogger with vertical coils sustaining 30W is actually giving me more dense wet rich vapor and nicotine than my body can handle. Two puffs on it and my nic level is railed. But I run 33mg because I am not watt chasing or cloud chasing. I am chasing a cool dense wet flavor saturated vape to satisfy my nicotine lust. I actually prefer the other attys sustaining lower power levels I have built with Ni200 because I can take several puffs without rocketing to the moon and it feels more natural to me, ie used to analogs. I'll probably end up reducing the nic level. But it's all better than the skoal, redman and 'boros I was doin a couple years ago. 
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Nice post and awesome pictures lol.
But I'm curious why you think letting the temp control limit your power produces a weak vape. Not saying you're wrong, but on what observations do you base this?
From a technical perspective, if a build can sustain 15 watts at the temp limit, the only difference between setting power to 15 watt or 40 watt should be how fast the coil reaches the temp limit. Of course it's quite possible that there is some kind of "oscillation" or something going on at temp limit, but I doubt even if so it would affect vape quality that much. The spreading of the heat along the coil should be exactly the same. Theoretically 15 watts should be 15 watts whether at the temp limit or manually.
But I'm curious why you think letting the temp control limit your power produces a weak vape. Not saying you're wrong, but on what observations do you base this?
From a technical perspective, if a build can sustain 15 watts at the temp limit, the only difference between setting power to 15 watt or 40 watt should be how fast the coil reaches the temp limit. Of course it's quite possible that there is some kind of "oscillation" or something going on at temp limit, but I doubt even if so it would affect vape quality that much. The spreading of the heat along the coil should be exactly the same. Theoretically 15 watts should be 15 watts whether at the temp limit or manually.
A really good post, but I would just like to add to this. It's ok to use a lot of wick on the Kayfun, but you should not block the juice channel. Not because you are blocking the juice from entering the chamber, but you are blocking air from entering the tank, which in turn prevents juice from entering the chamber.
I'm always slightly confused to what this means. Should the wick not be inside the juice channel at all, should not be near the opening of the juice channel, half way down it or just thinned out enough to not "completely block" the juice channel?
I'm always slightly confused to what this means. Should the wick not be inside the juice channel at all, should not be near the opening of the juice channel, half way down it or just thinned out enough to not "completely block" the juice channel?
It should be like this:
Nope - this is not it! I have an interview with John and Brandon where I made this exact same error - and they corrected me. Due up in the next 30 mins or so....
As promised - here it is: http://vaping.com/news/exclusive-interview-brandon-john-from-evolv
You keep teasing us with this Smokey.......LOL.....Are we there yet?
HAHA!!! we ARE there!
Unbelievably great read! My you have been busy Smokey....Thanks! It was really interesting to read where evolv is going and their direction in terms of getting ahead of the regulation curve....yay!!! We win!
(sent from Mars, it's not as red as I imagined.)
(sent from Mars, it's not as red as I imagined.)
As I said, by vaping 4 different atty designs and 3 different gauges of wire and 5 different builds and varying the power to where it can sustain and then to max. Every one was the same. Very discernible difference.
No to how fast it reaches TEMP limit, by watching the display, it is ramped on purpose.
And yes it does affect the vape quality it gets weak.
When TC cuts in, it does not lower to 15W, it will go way below 15W.
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