- Status
Limpar,
I am surprised that they haven't done that already. Someone in their public relations group is not doing their job that's for sure. They have to be well aware that a lot of people are asking questions about the use of nickel. Actually I find it hard to believe they are not reading the mail on this thread and getting concerned about conversations like this harming their sales.
If I owned Evolv...
Or no one at Evolv is able tell someone in Evolv's public relations group what they need to hear to be able to ally our fears. Early readers of this thread probably recaill I brought up this very concern pretty much right at the beginning of this thread, pointing out, among other things, that Brandon's response to Phil's question about the safety of nickel, which started with "It's already used in atomizers," was less than convincing. As I said then, I find the fact that he even advanced that "argument" at all quite unnerving. I think if they had the data to say what we'd like to hear, they'd have said it by now -- way before now. But they don't, so they haven't.
I have personally decided, on balance, it's probably safer to use TP and nickel than no TP and no nickel. But then again, I am not a very typical vaper -- I don't usually inhale. (Looong story which I won't go into here. I could inhale, I have no health reason preventing me from doing so, I just don't.)
My decision to use nickel-dependent TP is open to reversal at any time. What I'm hoping is that we can switch to tungsten, and I've got the feeling that might be the next thing we hear from Evolv -- actually I think we've already heard a little bit about it from them. I believe its temperature coefficient of resistance is about half that of nickel, so it's definitely in the ballpark. (And yes, I know tungsten, like pretty much every other metal we deal with here, can be frangible and emit particles. The relevant question is: what size particles?)
If it turns out tungsten can also be used, and it can be shown the particles it emits used in this way are 8 to 10 microns or larger (and I believe it's not that hard to discern minimum particle size, plus I'll confirm I've got the generally accepted minimum safe particle size tomorrow after I get some sleep) then I might very well quit pulling a Bill Clinton.
Last edited:
LOL KG, I'll bet this is going to come up again and again as it already has...<sigh>
NEWSFLASH if nickel causes cancer so dies TITANIUM keep reading...
Based on what the EPA says, nickel carbonyl and nickel refinery dust (includes subsulfides) are carcinogens, not nickel itself.
Nickle Compounds | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA
How nickel carbonyl is formed:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Composition of nickel refinery dust:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
The EPA says "Nickel occurs naturally in the environment at low levels. Nickel is an essential element in some animal species, and it has been suggested it may be essential for human nutrition."
The EPA recommends that drinking water levels for nickel should not be more than 0.1 mg per liter (nickel itself is insoluble so must be a compound). The OSHA has set an enforceable limit of 1.0 mg nickel/m3 for metallic nickel and nickel compounds in workroom air to protect workers during an 8-hour shift over a 40-hour work week.
ATSDR - Toxicological Profile: Nickel
So based on the above if we include compounds then might as well say Titanium is a carcinogen as well:
CCOHS: What's New Archive
And lets not forget nickel allergy, guess what so is titanium:
Titanium | MELISA Medica Foundation
So until I see mass spec data of vapor from my Ni200 atty, I believe I am far closer to inhaling TiO2 than nickel refinery dust or nickel carbonyl. Use detergents with whiteners? Use paper? Breathe in a room with white walls? Yep, yep and yep. And I'm not worried about that either.
Sleep tight
Out of all the affordable and reasonably nonreactive at lower temperatures metals, Nickel is an excellent choice.
NEWSFLASH if nickel causes cancer so dies TITANIUM keep reading...
Based on what the EPA says, nickel carbonyl and nickel refinery dust (includes subsulfides) are carcinogens, not nickel itself.
Nickle Compounds | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA
How nickel carbonyl is formed:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Composition of nickel refinery dust:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
The EPA says "Nickel occurs naturally in the environment at low levels. Nickel is an essential element in some animal species, and it has been suggested it may be essential for human nutrition."
The EPA recommends that drinking water levels for nickel should not be more than 0.1 mg per liter (nickel itself is insoluble so must be a compound). The OSHA has set an enforceable limit of 1.0 mg nickel/m3 for metallic nickel and nickel compounds in workroom air to protect workers during an 8-hour shift over a 40-hour work week.
ATSDR - Toxicological Profile: Nickel
So based on the above if we include compounds then might as well say Titanium is a carcinogen as well:
CCOHS: What's New Archive
And lets not forget nickel allergy, guess what so is titanium:
Titanium | MELISA Medica Foundation
So until I see mass spec data of vapor from my Ni200 atty, I believe I am far closer to inhaling TiO2 than nickel refinery dust or nickel carbonyl. Use detergents with whiteners? Use paper? Breathe in a room with white walls? Yep, yep and yep. And I'm not worried about that either.
Sleep tight
Out of all the affordable and reasonably nonreactive at lower temperatures metals, Nickel is an excellent choice.
LOL, thanks, I was jk.
Nah, I'll just put my kayfun on which has half the vapor output being a measly single coil
sorry, couldn't resist!
Or no one at Evolv is able tell someone in Evolv's public relations group what they need to hear to be able to ally our fears. Early readers of this thread probably recaill I brought up this very concern pretty much right at the beginning of this thread, pointing out, among other things, that Brandon's response to Phil's question about the safety of nickel, which started with "It's already used in atomizers," was less than convincing. As I said then, I find the fact that he even advanced that "argument" at all quite unnerving. I think if they had the data to say what we'd like to hear, they'd have said it by now -- way before now. But they don't, so they haven't.
I have personally decided, on balance, it's probably safer to use TP and nickel than no TP and no nickel. But then again, I am not a very typical vaper -- I don't usually inhale. (Looong story which I won't go into here. I could inhale, I have no health reason preventing me from doing so, I just don't.)
My decision to use nickel-dependent TP is open to reversal at any time. What I'm hoping is that we can switch to tungsten, and I've got the feeling that might be the next thing we hear from Evolv -- actually I think we've already heard a little bit about it from them. I believe its temperature coefficient of resistance is about half that of nickel, so it's definitely in the ballpark. (And yes, I know tungsten, like pretty much every other metal we deal with here, can be frangible and emit particles. The relevant question is: what size particles?)
If it turns out tungsten can also be used, and it can be shown the particles it emits used in this way are 8 to 10 microns or larger (and I believe it's not that hard to discern minimum particle size, plus I'll confirm I've got the generally accepted minimum safe particle size tomorrow after I get some sleep) then I might very well quit pulling a Bill Clinton.
We need someone to invent an arty that has no wire and wick lol [emoji6]
Laughing. How'd you get that post back so fast?
Yes, I know it's the carbonyl that's the issue with nickel. Oh, and I wasn't talking about titanium, I was talking about tungsten. Hadn't thought about titanium, actually. And from a pragmatic point of view, I more or less agree with your conclusions about nickel, which is why I've got a Vapor Shark rDNA 40 on order. That doesn't mean I'm not keeping my eye out for improvements. For any of you that go back far enough with microprocessors, I think that TP is to wattage what the 80386 was to the 80286. Which is to say, a sea change that will be around for a long time.
Last edited:
LOL KG, I'll bet this is going to come up again and again as it already has...<sigh>
NEWSFLASH if nickel causes cancer so dies TITANIUM keep reading...
Based on what the EPA says, nickel carbonyl and nickel refinery dust (includes subsulfides) are carcinogens, not nickel itself.
Nickle Compounds | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics Web site | US EPA
How nickel carbonyl is formed:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Composition of nickel refinery dust:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
The EPA says "Nickel occurs naturally in the environment at low levels. Nickel is an essential element in some animal species, and it has been suggested it may be essential for human nutrition."
The EPA recommends that drinking water levels for nickel should not be more than 0.1 mg per liter (nickel itself is insoluble so must be a compound). The OSHA has set an enforceable limit of 1.0 mg nickel/m3 for metallic nickel and nickel compounds in workroom air to protect workers during an 8-hour shift over a 40-hour work week.
ATSDR - Toxicological Profile: Nickel
So based on the above if we include compounds then might as well say Titanium is a carcinogen as well:
CCOHS: What's New Archive
And lets not forget nickel allergy, guess what so is titanium:
Titanium | MELISA Medica Foundation
So until I see mass spec data of vapor from my Ni200 atty, I believe I am far closer to inhaling TiO2 than nickel refinery dust or nickel carbonyl. Use detergents with whiteners? Use paper? Breathe in a room with white walls? Yep, yep and yep. And I'm not worried about that either.
Sleep tight
Out of all the affordable and reasonably nonreactive at lower temperatures metals, Nickel is an excellent choice.
1). At the moment I have reservations about titanium too. So comparing nickel to it doesn't allay my concerns.
2). Many of your examples don't relate to vaping. We're doing a specific thing here, we're heating it and then inhaling it, so we must analyse how we're going to be utilising it instead of looking at how it's other applications may affect us. I am not sticking detergent or paper into an atomizer and vaping it. It's like saying ejuice is completely safe. In its normal form it is, but heat it up over 280C and acrolein may form, hence we now have temperature control which is a major step forward.
Ah, my brain already spends way too much time thinking about how to do just that.
If you ever work it out you'll be a rich man.
Kinda off topic but not really... Did anybody else notice that in Phil's video they hinted at a kick with temp control coming in the future. This would be awesome as I love my mech mod and I'm pretty sure the extension tube I have would work with an 18650
Just wanted to share my process:
Twisted 30 ga 14 wraps 0.9 ohm single coil on VF with big dripper TC 440 deg
Great flavor!
Had to give it about 4 goes with the drill with it snapping 3 times to get it twisted enough... Slapped it on, turned tc to 400 degrees... Pinched it a little to reduce hot spots... Then Jpn cotton...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They said no kick with tc in the interview with e cig forums
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well that's disappointing. But then again I change my cotton on my mech setup every couple of days and it's never even brown so maybe it'll be OK. I'll just save it for the comps.
Yeah I know but Ti has been brought up before, always like improvements, I haven't looked at tungsten but sounds promising. LOL I had a computrade 80286dx2-66 eisa vesa.
You mean 80486dx2-66
That was it LOL I cant remember the maker of the 386 I had before that...z-nix or something? We had zenith pcs at work.
I had a 486sx-33 as my first PC. I believe it was back in 94, because I had just started at high school. I remember wanting the DX instead of the SX, because the DX had a math processor.
I am surprised about the amount of discussion of the safety of Ni200 in this thread. Evolv's future business depends on nickel wire being safe to vape. Are they not trusted? Even with inside industry contacts and money to spend on research? They aren't there for a quick buck, as far as I can see, and John and Brandon appear to be intelligent human beings in the videos I've seen them in. Just my thoughts. Maybe I'm missing something here
Remember, most pre-made coils that are in cartos/clearos use NiCr wire and in many cases pure nickel legs on those nichrome wires. Likewise, most attys are made of stainless which can contain up to 20% nickel...unless you have a cheaper one that is just plated brass which you have a thin plating of nickel (chrome is too expensive to do effectively) protecting you from the lead that is in the brass.
- in other words, the nickel in this temperature controlled environment is really the least of my worries
- Status
