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Sorry I made some stupid mistake, Frocket is correct of course. A temperature change from room temperature (68°F / 20°C) to freezing weather (25°F / -4°C) creates a 15% change (not 1.5%) in resistance.
But I still don't get how this could have such a drastic effect. If the chip resets the base resistance to the colder value (e.g. 0.24 ohm instead of 0.29 ohm) that actually should make the coil produce LESS vapor and keep at a less absolute temperature instead of a dry hit.
If it doesn't reset to the colder value and keep the room temperature base resistance, the measured temperature should be correct and not produce any dry hits either.
I'm slightly confused by the formula and have been wrong before so I might be talking nonsense though
In any case, you could just lower your watts in cold weather to what you would vape with kanthal. Or if the initial boost is the issue you could disable temp protection and use your nickel coils purely watt controlled. As long as you're outside. Maybe the problem is the viscosity of the liquid in cold weather?
Hahaha
Nice but I still want a MINI hana with a 18650 in it and a TINY dna 40 chip inside
Regards
Tony
Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk
Me too, Tiny... er... Tony.
I noticed the temperature thing here last night, and I'm in Florida. Not exactly brutal cold. It was low 60's. Maybe 16 degrees change.
I think we have to account for ambient temps, what temp the initial build was tested and set as a new coil at. THEN the biggest thing is the air coming IN and changing things. Blasting 30F onto the coil cooling it is a lot different than 65-70F when in the house. The differential. The average ambient temp in my house is 77-78 with the air on So now the wattage and temp setting you tested and found a happy medium for setting to stop protection from constantly kicking in, seems to go out the window once your incoming Air changes and the ambient temp of the device.
I also noticed the opposite sitting on the hot porch today that was probably 90. Even the 10-12 degrees was noticable in hitting protection sooner. (Kayfun Lite 2) with bleeds turned in a bit.
I had 3 builds going. 2 kayfun Lite v2's and a Russian clone. All were 1.4-1.6, 30 ga at about 3mm, 12-13 wraps both spaced and pressed.
Today I sat and thought about it. I wanted to try a higher ohm and also try and get the mass of the coil up a bit.
I'm at 4.3mm ( 11/64 drill bit ) and a contact coil that was heated and pressed. Came out as 0.24 on tester and 0.23 via the dispay. 12-13 wraps of 28ga. At 12 watts I could just hold the fire button. The coil was glowing nice and even and at that temp it was at 1.24 Ohms. Nice glow. Legs looked great.
I have it set at 20w and 430F. I can vape on it 3 or 4 times, in the house, mouth-lung in a row and not hit the flashing temp protection. Warmer vape than same temp on 3mm 1.6 setup. Walk outside with it about 10 degrees cooler and do the same.. Flashes.
They had to of thought of this. There is a temp sensor on the board for overheat. If they used this for calculations it'll never be cood enough unless you walk around with your mod in your hand and the case gets cold enough.
I may be totally wrong and I'm throwing this all out there for discussion. But I keep thinking temperature differential. As in ambient air being heated or cooled. In this case a coil being cooled by air that changes in temperature. Just like your car AC might despense ice cubes at night, but during the day you're wishing it could cool enough because of the ambient temp at the condensor in front of the rad. You can only get so much of a differential. Maybe the cold air entering and hitting the coil is effecting the detection of the temperature. Keeping the coil temps down and the wattage goes higher trying to reach it's "governor" point using the "new coil" temperatures that were saved.
I'm going to keep testing larger diameters and hopefully give it more mass/ohms to work with.
I think we have to account for ambient temps, what temp the initial build was tested and set as a new coil at. THEN the biggest thing is the air coming IN and changing things. Blasting 30F onto the coil cooling it is a lot different than 65-70F when in the house. The differential. The average ambient temp in my house is 77-78 with the air on
So now the wattage and temp setting you tested and found a happy medium for setting to stop protection from constantly kicking in, seems to go out the window once your incoming Air changes and the ambient temp of the device.I also noticed the opposite sitting on the hot porch today that was probably 90. Even the 10-12 degrees was noticable in hitting protection sooner. (Kayfun Lite 2) with bleeds turned in a bit.
I had 3 builds going. 2 kayfun Lite v2's and a Russian clone. All were 1.4-1.6, 30 ga at about 3mm, 12-13 wraps both spaced and pressed.
Today I sat and thought about it. I wanted to try a higher ohm and also try and get the mass of the coil up a bit.
I'm at 4.3mm ( 11/64 drill bit ) and a contact coil that was heated and pressed. Came out as 0.24 on tester and 0.23 via the dispay. 12-13 wraps of 28ga. At 12 watts I could just hold the fire button. The coil was glowing nice and even and at that temp it was at 1.24 Ohms. Nice glow. Legs looked great.
I have it set at 20w and 430F. I can vape on it 3 or 4 times, in the house, mouth-lung in a row and not hit the flashing temp protection. Warmer vape than same temp on 3mm 1.6 setup. Walk outside with it about 10 degrees cooler and do the same.. Flashes.
They had to of thought of this. There is a temp sensor on the board for overheat. If they used this for calculations it'll never be cood enough unless you walk around with your mod in your hand and the case gets cold enough.
I may be totally wrong and I'm throwing this all out there for discussion. But I keep thinking temperature differential. As in ambient air being heated or cooled. In this case a coil being cooled by air that changes in temperature. Just like your car AC might despense ice cubes at night, but during the day you're wishing it could cool enough because of the ambient temp at the condensor in front of the rad. You can only get so much of a differential. Maybe the cold air entering and hitting the coil is effecting the detection of the temperature. Keeping the coil temps down and the wattage goes higher trying to reach it's "governor" point using the "new coil" temperatures that were saved.
I'm going to keep testing larger diameters and hopefully give it more mass/ohms to work with.
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Correction: After all of the stuff listed below, I removed the Kayfun and put it back on. It then asked it it was a new coil and is now telling me it's at 0.14 .....
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I just did a test. I took a kayfun with 28ga, 12 wraps at 3mm. It's a 0.18 build. Placed in fridge for about 10-15 minutes on a soda can. Screwed it back on and it said the same 0.18.
Compared to before it hit like a truck, mouth to lung, popped like crazy and after 4 vapes I was like "enough". Way more vapor/harsher. I was chaining this before wanting more.
I then just held it and fired it and it didn't even hit the temp protection at 20w/430F. Just now did it again and it hung at like 380F with no airflow and slowly heated up. Cold deck/device just wicking up the heat. Definitely a different vape. Sucking in real cold air...somebody is going to have to do some testing.
Try it in fridge. I can't even get it to hit the temp protection now. Need a mod with built in cooling ;-)
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I just did a test. I took a kayfun with 28ga, 12 wraps at 3mm. It's a 0.18 build. Placed in fridge for about 10-15 minutes on a soda can. Screwed it back on and it said the same 0.18.
Compared to before it hit like a truck, mouth to lung, popped like crazy and after 4 vapes I was like "enough". Way more vapor/harsher. I was chaining this before wanting more.
I then just held it and fired it and it didn't even hit the temp protection at 20w/430F. Just now did it again and it hung at like 380F with no airflow and slowly heated up. Cold deck/device just wicking up the heat. Definitely a different vape. Sucking in real cold air...somebody is going to have to do some testing.
Try it in fridge. I can't even get it to hit the temp protection now. Need a mod with built in cooling ;-)
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But I don't really get how cool air really changes the temperature measuring. Sure the coil will be cooled more and more watts will flow in to bring it to the set temperature, but as long as the base resistance the chip saves for the coil doesn't change the absolute temperature should be the same?
Dejay
I guess I'm looking at from the point of consistancy. If you set it to a certain temp and wattage for flavor/vapor, it appears it's going to change with the ambient temp. Since the coil temp is being modified by the air entering and interacting with the coil. So getting it set where you like it, being "governed" like it is, then outside factors can change that experience. I realize that any non heat regulated coil will also change, but they aren't "governered" at a certain temp. In that case you get your hard setting and a change from the air temp. The wattage isn't changing due to the difference in air temperature. You ask for X watts and that's what you get regardless. Here we are saying "I want X temp and X wattage" and it can boost over or drop below that to change the coil temp. Will it go over the normal initial indoors temp to try and do it? Looks like it might.
I just added info to my above post. The coil resistance changed after adjusting to room temp after the test, but only after removal and re installing though. It's now hitting the temp protection way faster. Back to the old vape.
I guess there are a few questions.
If you have your temp protection set higher in the house, then go outside and get cooler air, is it changing the starting resistance? Seems it needs a big change or a kick in the pants to do that.
Is it boosting up the wattage higher because the cool air is keeping part of the coil temp down compared to the warmer house and in turn the coil getting hotter in other areas? Seems it needs a big change to make a hard settings change. My frig test kinda proved that. It didn't change back until I forced it to check and reset the resistance of the coil by removing it. Then it went from 0.18 to 0.14. My lazy .... never left the chair, but it reached room temp again.
If you want to force a "new coil" do the following:
- Make sure coil is cooled down
- Unscrew it enough where the center post is not touching. Wait a few seconds.
- Hold the fire button and while holding it screw device back down tight. It won't fire.
- Now it will prompt you "new coil"
I guess I'm looking at from the point of consistancy. If you set it to a certain temp and wattage for flavor/vapor, it appears it's going to change with the ambient temp. Since the coil temp is being modified by the air entering and interacting with the coil. So getting it set where you like it, being "governed" like it is, then outside factors can change that experience. I realize that any non heat regulated coil will also change, but they aren't "governered" at a certain temp. In that case you get your hard setting and a change from the air temp. The wattage isn't changing due to the difference in air temperature. You ask for X watts and that's what you get regardless. Here we are saying "I want X temp and X wattage" and it can boost over or drop below that to change the coil temp. Will it go over the normal initial indoors temp to try and do it? Looks like it might.
I just added info to my above post. The coil resistance changed after adjusting to room temp after the test, but only after removal and re installing though. It's now hitting the temp protection way faster. Back to the old vape.
I guess there are a few questions.
If you have your temp protection set higher in the house, then go outside and get cooler air, is it changing the starting resistance? Seems it needs a big change or a kick in the pants to do that.
Is it boosting up the wattage higher because the cool air is keeping part of the coil temp down compared to the warmer house and in turn the coil getting hotter in other areas? Seems it needs a big change to make a hard settings change. My frig test kinda proved that. It didn't change back until I forced it to check and reset the resistance of the coil by removing it. Then it went from 0.18 to 0.14. My lazy .... never left the chair, but it reached room temp again.
If you want to force a "new coil" do the following:
- Make sure coil is cooled down
- Unscrew it enough where the center post is not touching. Wait a few seconds.
- Hold the fire button and while holding it screw device back down tight. It won't fire.
- Now it will prompt you "new coil"
I wish we could get some answers from eVolve about this. It makes me wonder what kind of problems those using ni200 are in for during the summer months!
Edited to add: eVolv may regret not including an ability to field upgrade the chip programming, especially if there are continued issues with getting the TP working as designed.
Edited to add: eVolv may regret not including an ability to field upgrade the chip programming, especially if there are continued issues with getting the TP working as designed.
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I'm just throwing stuff out there hoping others will test and add their own stuff. I'm just trying to figure out of it's doing what I think it may be doing. I could be totally wrong about it all. Just observations and thinking out loud.
I now have the Kayfun resting on a freezer pack while the Hana mod sits out in open. I want to see if it changes the resistence setting once the kayfun/deck get cold enough.
I now have the Kayfun resting on a freezer pack while the Hana mod sits out in open. I want to see if it changes the resistence setting once the kayfun/deck get cold enough.
Thank you for sharing! I'm only theorizing and haven't done any tests myself. But the more we share the more stuff we'll figure out for best practices / problems.
My first DNA40 didn't work well cold (had screen issues too). I can't tell a difference with temperature using my 2nd DNA40. Certainly harder to squeeze juice out of the bottle though! Another observation is that my batteries are lasting much longer with the 2nd one.
Test 1: Icepack test
I chilled the Kayfun to the point my 50/50 ejuice was like jelly. The Kayfun was cold enough that the Hana box was wicking up the cold. Stayed at the initial 0.26
No change on it's on. Tried:
- Letting it sleep
- Tapping fire button
- Just interacting by hitting up/down and displaying lock message
I waited and tested for quite a while.
I unscrewed the Kayfun and forced a new coil check. The resistance than changed from 0.26 to 0.22
Test 2: Heat coil and set as new
Vaped a few times to heat up coil. Took off Kayfun and forced new coil. Was at 0.38
- Let it sit
- Pulled air through without firing
- same sleep, fire, interact tests from above
No change
- Initiated new coil check
It then reset to 0.24
People have reported changes while sleeping etc.
How long does it take?
Does it have to sleep X amount of time?
I chilled the Kayfun to the point my 50/50 ejuice was like jelly. The Kayfun was cold enough that the Hana box was wicking up the cold. Stayed at the initial 0.26
No change on it's on. Tried:
- Letting it sleep
- Tapping fire button
- Just interacting by hitting up/down and displaying lock message
I waited and tested for quite a while.
I unscrewed the Kayfun and forced a new coil check. The resistance than changed from 0.26 to 0.22
Test 2: Heat coil and set as new
Vaped a few times to heat up coil. Took off Kayfun and forced new coil. Was at 0.38
- Let it sit
- Pulled air through without firing
- same sleep, fire, interact tests from above
No change
- Initiated new coil check
It then reset to 0.24
People have reported changes while sleeping etc.
How long does it take?
Does it have to sleep X amount of time?
If you have the screen glitch issue the chip will "reset" after about 5 min and go to sleep and reset the base resistance just like when replacing the battery. So with screen glitch temperature changes can have a larger effect. Without the screen glitch I don't know if / when the DNA goes to sleep.
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Thanks. Luckily I haven't had any issues with my Hana. Good point on the hard reset though.
Now the question is should it be changing? Does not changing effect the temperature detection in cold conditions, etc? I would think if you went from 70F and went outside and it's 30F ambient, there's got to be some kind of change needed. Math wizes?
I was just thinking the same thing. Where the hell is Brandon or the genius creator? IF I were them I would b here talking with the ecf guys no doubt!
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They might have their hands full explaining the faulty chips to the mod makers hehe. But seriously they have given pretty good support when you email them. So if someone emails them about the ambient temp effects on the temp protection I'm sure they'll answer. I'd ask them:
1. Does the ambient temperature (air / chip) have an effect on the temperature protection? Or will it cut off at the same absolute temperature?
2. When and how does the chip adjust the base resistance? Does the chip go to sleep and resets the base resistance, and after what time?
For me it's immediately after getting off work so 6-8 hrs of sitting
It took my DNA40 only about 20minutes to see about ~.03-.05 ohm drop. But mine had the screen glitch issue. It's been RMA'd to Hana and I should be getting it back next week.
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