Official DNA 40 introduction

[rusirius]

im not sure what the board is doing as far as working in cold climates but i have been enjoying my orchid with triple twisted 30 gauge coil tp @440 .09 ohm 23 watts until today its 23 degrees out and had to go to town my dna 40 was in my coat pocket like 5 minutes i started to take a hit and could tell right away i was going to get a burnt hit so i stopped looked at it and now it was .29 ohms and fluctuated between .23 and .29 i had to turn watts down to 13.5 and tp to 390 to vape it out in the cold. this is opposite of what id think it should do anyways i started thinking maybe my coil loosened up because of the big swing in resistance but after letting it sit at home it reset back to my original .09 and its vaping normal again watts back at 23 tp@ 440. just wanted to share my experience as it was just like others have reported. dont know if this is a bad design or just the way it was designed to work. as it is its not an out and about devise but works great indoors.

It's definitely not designed that way. I've had mine inside and outside with no problems. Granted not THAT cold, the coldest was probably 32-34 degrees, but it functioned flawlessly when I did. In fact, just last night I don't know what the exact temp was, but I know it was darn cold, I had it sitting on a piece of scaffolding for at least 30 minutes before I picked it back up and took a hit... Prior to that it was sitting in my 72 degree house and I hit it right as I walked out the door. In both cases it worked perfectly with no change in the vape. So I dunno... However... I'm going to take a WILD guess here... If it's NOT an actual problem with the board, then here's the only think I can think of....

If you have a poor connection... In normal room temperature it's an "ok" connection... So the resistance reads just fine....

You take it outside.... it's cold... the metal in the atty and coil contract slightly.... So that "ok" connection becomes a "bad" connection... So now it re-reads the resistance when it fires... But now it reads it much higher than it really is... As soon as you hit it, the coil/atty warm up and the connection becomes "good" again... but now the base resistance is already set... So it continues to think it's still the really high value... So in firing it's going to fire with all she's got to try to bring the temp up, but it's never going to be able to get it that high...

You walk inside.... The atty/coil/board all warm back up and it's set a while... You fire it and now it re-reads the base resistance again... This time it sees it back to normal because the "ok" connection is still good at these temps...

Just a guess....

 

[TIGwelder]

Sitting on porch. It's 81 out. I'll guess it's 85 on porch. Overcast and no sun shining in.

Change atty and force new coil message
- at 0.24 ( what the build was and tested at)
- vape and let sit 10-11 minutes
- check and it's now 0.22

- remove atty and let both sit
- attach and force new coil. Back at 0.24

- let sit 10 mintes. Back at 0.22

0.24 is a nice 430/20w vape
0.22 is weaker 430/20w vape

 

[BNEAT]

Sitting on porch. It's 81 out. I'll guess it's 85 on porch. Overcast and no sun shining in.

Change atty and force new coil message
- at 0.24 ( what the build was and tested at)
- vape and let sit 10-11 minutes
- check and it's now 0.22

- remove atty and let both sit
- attach and force new coil. Back at 0.24

- let sit 10 mintes. Back at 0.22

0.24 is a nice 430/20w vape
0.22 is weaker 430/20w vape

Stick it in your freezer for a while, then see how it vapes

 

[dougward1960]

well im pretty darn sure with triple twisted ni200 i got my connections as tight as possible but it does this wild temp ohm only when cold and i really doubt the five minutes it was in my pocket that anything got cold on the atty but it really changed resistance fast. anything is possible but i really dont think all of us with this cold weather fluctuations have bad connections but i suppose we could. that would be the only thing other than a bad board i guess. im just not taking mine outside i have many others that work just fine no matter what the weather is

 

[TIGwelder]

I did the above test like 4 times in a row at like 10 minutes. Same results each time.

Now trying to figure out how many minutes it takes for it to change. May depend on how long it takes to cool back to initial resistance. It's not 5 or 6 minutes.



Edit:
Looks like about 7 minutes to drop from 0.24 to 0.22 after about 3 vapes and letting it sit. Will test more.

Just did 5 vapes that were warm at 0.24/430/20
Temp protection not flashing. Waiting again

Edit2:
When my timer went off at 7 minutes, I hit the up button and it had again changed from 0.24 to 0.22

Edit 3: SWITCH KAYFUN
- Intial detected was 0.25 (simuliar build)
- Vaped 4 times
- Let sit 7 minutes
- Hit up bottom
- Resistance now 0.23
- Remove and reset
- Back to 0.25

Can anybody duplicate this test?
( Ambient temp approx 78-82)

 

[jazzvaper]

Actually you'd be surprised... I program and build devices with MCU's all the time... The Atmel ATMEGA series is one of my favorite chips to use... To give you a rough idea... The ATMEGA16

//SNIPPED//

etc...etc...etc...

That single MCU has FAR more power and memory than several of my first computers... and as for size???

7mm x 7mm

Yeah... These days when it comes to functionality I NEVER consider "it wasn't possible due to code size limitation" as even a remote possibility unless maybe you're trying to program skynet.

//SNIPPED

Thanks for that!! I've been speculating as to the programming, particularly as to room for memory of "last_atty_base_resistance" since I have three (3) tanks and two (2) drippers set for Ni200.

Based on your info I think it fair to say that none of us has a clue as to what is going on in the code...so I will stop guessing.

 

[tchavei]

Interesting stuff about the chip specs.

The facts I described happened 6 years ago during the development of a high end gyro. There were a lot of angular velocity calculations at play, heading hold, drift compensations and God knows what else so I have no idea of the extent of the code but we test pilots wanted to change a procedure during field setup that would indicate to the end user that the gyro was in programing mode and change a solid light in the middle of a calibration process from steady to double flash and there was a problem with running out of programming space. The company had to erase part of another setup flow to accommodate something apparently trivial. In the end, once the debugging routines were removed, there was space for all options but during testing stages there wasn't (or at least we were told so...).

Anyway, good there is plenty of space. I hope this all gets fixed asap because I really want one badly hehehe.

Does anybody know if the issues were already corrected at the factory? I know where I can get a board that was received last Thursday from evolv so it should be quite recent?

There is no serial number on the boards I suppose?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[TIGwelder]

I updated my above test post and also duplicated the results with a 2nd Kayfun with about the same build. Both changed .02 lower after idling over 7 minutes.

 

[Heespharm]

Heespharm has now passed TheKiwi in the DNA40 bad-luck competition!

I'm number one ! I'm number one... Yeah I wouldn't believe it myself if I didn't have a picture for each time it does it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rusirius]

I did the above test like 4 times in a row at like 10 minutes. Same results each time.

Now trying to figure out how many minutes it takes for it to change. May depend on how long it takes to cool back to initial resistance. It's not 5 or 6 minutes.



Edit:
Looks like about 7 minutes to drop from 0.24 to 0.22 after about 3 vapes and letting it sit. Will test more.

Just did 5 vapes that were warm at 0.24/430/20
Temp protection not flashing. Waiting again

Edit2:
When my timer went off at 7 minutes, I hit the up button and it had again changed from 0.24 to 0.22

Edit 3: SWITCH KAYFUN
- Intial detected was 0.25 (simuliar build)
- Vaped 4 times
- Let sit 7 minutes
- Hit up bottom
- Resistance now 0.23
- Remove and reset
- Back to 0.25

Can anybody duplicate this test?
( Ambient temp approx 78-82)

I've tried, but mine doesn't do this. I've run all three attys (atomic at .11, fogger at .11 and orchid at .13... All three stay at their base resistance... My fogger is on there now and has been since yesterday afternoon. Rather inside my house, in my car, outside working on the garage (cold), or in my office the resistance doesn't change... On the other hand, with my first board it was all over the place... Seemed like every time I picked it up it was showing a different resistance.

As for putting it in the fridge... I tried that just a while ago after reading some of the posts here... Let it sit in my fridge (which is VERY cold.. I have the temp setpoint to supercool soda (i.e. you have to open the can VERY gently or it will instantly freeze... If you open it gently and pour it into a cup it will start as liquid but turn to slush as it hits the cup or surface of the rest of the liquid and is disturbed. I left it in there a good 30 minutes and then popped it on and vaped. The vape was crappy, but not because of being hot... it was crappy because the unit was now at room temp and the atty was freezing, so it detected the resistance lower than normal (I can't remember but I think it was .09 instead of .11) That reduced power output at the same temp setting. I let it sit about 15 minutes to warm back up and hit it again and it was back to .11 and vaping as normal. All of that seems to be exactly what would be expected.

 

[BNEAT]

I wish a few more people would chime with good, consistant function in cold weather.

 

[KGie]

I've tried, but mine doesn't do this. I've run all three attys (atomic at .11, fogger at .11 and orchid at .13... All three stay at their base resistance... My fogger is on there now and has been since yesterday afternoon. Rather inside my house, in my car, outside working on the garage (cold), or in my office the resistance doesn't change... On the other hand, with my first board it was all over the place... Seemed like every time I picked it up it was showing a different resistance.

As for putting it in the fridge... I tried that just a while ago after reading some of the posts here... Let it sit in my fridge (which is VERY cold.. I have the temp setpoint to supercool soda (i.e. you have to open the can VERY gently or it will instantly freeze... If you open it gently and pour it into a cup it will start as liquid but turn to slush as it hits the cup or surface of the rest of the liquid and is disturbed. I left it in there a good 30 minutes and then popped it on and vaped. The vape was crappy, but not because of being hot... it was crappy because the unit was now at room temp and the atty was freezing, so it detected the resistance lower than normal (I can't remember but I think it was .09 instead of .11) That reduced power output at the same temp setting. I let it sit about 15 minutes to warm back up and hit it again and it was back to .11 and vaping as normal. All of that seems to be exactly what would be expected.

Hmmm... this was instructive -- I think you may be "excusing" a situation most people are considering to be one of the 40's problems with consistency.

To wit, I think most of us using a device that's supposed to adjust for changing conditions would consider a bad vape to be a device fault, as long as we're using it within its design parameters (which any temperature -- for example, that found in a refrigerator -- in which humans can operate without a space suit certainly is). You know why it's happening and with a little time and effort how to work around it, so you don't see it as a problem; if it happened to me under the same conditions, even knowing why it happened (which I now do, thank you), I would still consider it a problem -- I''m not getting a good vape, and unless going outside is "my fault," than I did nothing to cause that bad vape. The bottom line is I'm getting an inconsistent vape through no fault of my own, and I need to jump through hoops to avoid the situation -- and even then I can only ameliorate the problem, not cure or prevent it.

I don't mean to imply I (or Evolv) could design it any better. But I think because you know why and how its design is causing you to have a bad vape under those specific conditions, you're OK forgiving behavior that most of us would consider an issue.

Have I gone off the tracks here or does this make sense?

 

[rusirius]

Hmmm... this was instructive -- I think you may be "excusing" a situation most people are considering to be one of the 40's problems with consistency.

To wit, I think most of us using a device that's supposed to adjust for changing conditions would consider a bad vape to be a device fault, as long as we're using it within its design parameters (which any temperature -- for example, that found in a refrigerator -- in which humans can operate without a space suit certainly is). You know why it's happening and with a little time and effort how to work around it, so you don't see it as a problem; if it happened to me under the same conditions, even knowing why it happened (which I now do, thank you), I would still consider it a problem -- I''m not getting a good vape, and unless going outside is "my fault," than I did nothing to cause that bad vape. The bottom line is I'm getting an inconsistent vape through no fault of my own, and I need to jump through hoops to avoid the situation -- and even then I can only ameliorate the problem, not cure or prevent it.

I don't mean to imply I (or Evolv) could design it any better. But I think because you know why and how its design is causing you to have a bad vape under those specific conditions, you're OK forgiving behavior that most of us would consider an issue.

Have I gone off the tracks here or does this make sense?

I think you misunderstood me a bit. Or maybei wasn't very clear. In this case I specifically put the atty by itself in the fridge while the mod was left in room temp. That produced a vape that was substandard to me because it wasn't allowing as much power to be applied because it thought my atty was a much lower resistance than it really was. I created a differential in temp, and evolv does say the atty and mod need to both be at the same temp when installing a new coil. I don't think I'm excusing anything by saying it's expected that this would happen. If I went the other way and torched the coils and told it it was a new coil and it read .30 resistance instead of .10 it's going to burn and suck because the opposite. Too say this would be expected isn't excusing it any more than if I cut off the speedometer needle on my car and glued out in a position that was 30mph faster than zero would be excusing the car manufacturer for allowing me to trick my car into having the wrong speed display.

That's truly what this is, tricking the dna into thinking the resistance is much lower or higher than it really is.

If I keep the mod and atty atty the same temp, I.e.it sits outside for 30 minutes and fire it. It stays at the right resistance, because the atty and mod are at the same temp. I'm not tricking it by creating a differential in temp between the two when it assumes there shouldn't be.

 

[KGie]

I think you misunderstood me a bit. Or maybei wasn't very clear. In this case I specifically put the atty by itself in the fridge while the mod was left in room temp. That produced a vape that was substandard to me because it wasn't allowing as much power to be applied because it thought my atty was a much lower resistance than it really was. I created a differential in temp, and evolv does say the atty and mod need to both be at the same temp when installing a new coil. I don't think I'm excusing anything by saying it's expected that this would happen. If I went the other way and torched the coils and told it it was a new coil and it read .30 resistance instead of .10 it's going to burn and suck because the opposite. Too say this would be expected isn't excusing it any more than if I cut off the speedometer needle on my car and glued out in a position that was 30mph faster than zero would be excusing the car manufacturer for allowing me to trick my car into having the wrong speed display.

That's truly what this is, tricking the dna into thinking the resistance is much lower or higher than it really is.

If I keep the mod and atty atty the same temp, I.e.it sits outside for 30 minutes and fire it. It stays at the right resistance, because the atty and mod are at the same temp. I'm not tricking it by creating a differential in temp between the two when it assumes there shouldn't be.

OK, I wondered -- that was why I ended my post with "Have I gone off the tracks here...," cause something about either the post or the way I was reading it didn't seem quite right. I didn't realize that you were only putting the atty in the fridge -- that makes all the diff in the world, since the board is in the mod. lol

Thanks for clarifying that. And I'm glad to know I can scratch that off the list(?) of Evolv 40 anomalies.

 

[dougward1960]

rusirius one of the things that is different is your resistance went down ours is raising but our atty and mod were in the cold. i ended up going to town again .... this time i kept hitting my mod and it was fine until i left it again briefly while i got 2 gallons of gas it again went up but only to .17 causing it to give a burnt hit if i were to hit it i didnt i turned my watts down again. so for whatever reason the cold is causing mine to behave in a way id call a problem figuring out the problem though is it the board is it the build. works just fine in my house/.

 

[tchavei]

Shouldn't the resistance go up with heat and down with cold?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[TIGwelder]

Shouldn't the resistance go up with heat and down with cold?

Yes. And I checked a glowing coil and it was reading 1.24 at 12watts, button held down.
0.24 at room temp

 

[dougward1960]

Shouldn't the resistance go up with heat and down with cold?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

yes it should go up with heat mine is going up when it gets cold as its base resistance

 

[TIGwelder]

Is it retaining heat enough that after the idle period (approx 7 min) it is still warm? Maybe that's it. If you take it off at that point and do a reset, is it then correct?

 

[tchavei]

So... Let's figure this out (forget temps and think resistance)

Let's say I have a 0.20 coil and I set the temp so that, at max power I only want to have 0.70. Since the chip read the coil and sets the base to 0, what we really want is an increase of 0.50 Ohms.

In normal conditions, the board fires up the coil until it detects a resistance of +0.50 and starts throttling correct?

Now people are complaining that when they go outside, the resistance of the coil, at rest, goes down to say 0.16. If the chip doesn't redetect the coil, the current value is read as -0.04 so when you fire it, it will heat up the coil to increase the resistance by 0.54 Ohms reaching a peak of 0.70 Ohms. There should be no difference in vape experience.

As I see it, the only and real problem arises if the board re-reads the atty while cold i.e. It sets the base as 0.16 so when you fire up the coil it will only reach 0.66 giving you a colder and weaker vape.

The same applies moving to a hot environment and re reading the coil making it overshoot the maximum true resistance.

So basically... If one could eliminate automatic detection one could control exactly the environment in which one sets the base and then do whatever he likes (going outside into the cold or into a sweat bath) maximum resistance would always be the same.

Am I making sense?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk