Official ProVari 3 Thread - P3 *PART 2*

[JohnD0406]

That's absurd. Really. It took my vape shop, about 20 seconds to do the update. You remove the battery. You screw on the programmer. You tap something on the keyboard. 20 seconds later, it's updated. And if they give you any bull about the programmer costing a lot, it didn't. My dealer told me what it cost and they will make up the cost of the programmer in a couple sales. And I'm not talking about big sales. Heck, I went in just for the update. And walked out with $100 stuff.

I'll refer you to my earlier post: Official ProVari 3 Thread - P3 | Page 705 | E-Cigarette Forum

The shop owner said they cost $200. I wouldn't give away free updates either. I'd recoup my cost, as well as my usual markup percentage. Maybe some shops only expect to get 10 customers coming in for an update, so $20 is reasonable to recoup their cost. Other shops might be rolling ProVari's out the door every day, so free isn't a burden. Everyone else is somewhere inbetween.

 

[rbrylawski]

I have two Kanger Subtank Mini's in my vape drawer. I have one Nautilus with the P3 connector in my vape drawer. I have a Beyond Vape Silo in my vape drawer and I have enough pre-made coils for all these systems to last me a year. But they will stay in my drawer and won't likely see daylight on my P3 since I've discovered how great the flavor and vapor is from my Kayfun Lite + and Russian 91%. And on both, I run at 10 watts. They produce more than enough vapor for me, but what they do absolutely best is produce amazing flavor.

 

[rbrylawski]

I'll refer you to my earlier post: Official ProVari 3 Thread - P3 | Page 705 | E-Cigarette Forum

The shop owner said they cost $200. I wouldn't give away free updates either. I'd recoup my cost, as well as my usual markup percentage. Maybe some shops only expect to get 10 customers coming in for an update, so $20 is reasonable to recoup their cost. Other shops might be rolling ProVari's out the door every day, so free isn't a burden. Everyone else is somewhere inbetween.

Sorry, but I disagree. You're making an assumption ver38 will be the only update. There will likely be other updates coming down the pike and every time they get a customer in their store, they have the opportunity to sell them merchandise. Yes, I knew the programmers cost $200, I just never put that number out there because I don't really think that's a significant cost in the scheme of things.

My Vape shop told me that every single person who has come in to have their P3 updated has bought something. They're pretty happy to give the updates for free as they recognize their generosity is being rewarded with increased sales. I'd say based on that, they've more than recouped the cost of the programmer. They've likely added customers for the long term, even if they didn't purchase their P3 from them.

 

[JohnD0406]

But I would much rather my P3 would just go to 30 watts

Yep, you're not alone. Most people I've talked to all agree 30W would be the MINIMUM to keep up in today's market.

Which gets me to my question, Is the main reason Provape won't take the P3 up to or over 30 watts have to do with the 18350 battery being unstable using low ohm coils?

There is not "official" answer from ProVape, however if you do the math, you'll see the limit is set to the limit of the AW 18350 battery, so the answer is YES. BTW, the resistance of the coil is completely irrelevant to the current drawn from the battery in a regulated mod. 20W on a 0.01-ohm coil is exactly the same battery current draw as 20W on a 3.0-ohm coil. What's different is the voltage and current drawn through the electronics, and provided to the atomizer. SO, when ProVape lowered the minimum coil resistance to 0.5 in the latest firmware, it simply tells us they've been testing their board and determined the extra current through the board is safe.

And all of that was before I even started using subohm tanks at 30 watts.

Sub-ohm is also irrelevant on a regulated device. In fact, it's a bit silly. If you use a low gauge wire and only a few wraps to get a 0.5-ohm coil, you could have doubled the number of wraps, thus doubled the heating surface area, handled twice the power, produced twice the vapor, at 1 ohm. It's the opposite mentality to mechanicals.

So that brings me to my next question, If the 18350 battery is unstable, will Provape phase out the P3 using 18350's in the future?
With today's technology, I can't see it being to hard to make a mini size P3 that would take a 18650 battery

Will ProVape risk pissing off half of it's customer base by removing 18350 capability? Not a chance. Will they come up with an 18650-only tube or box mod? Much more likely. Have you seen how small the board is in a ProVari? There's not much room to lose in a redesign. That's why box mods are so popular - they only need to be as high as an 18650, and there's plenty of room on the side for the board and 510 connector. Not too many options in a 22mm tube...

 

[JohnD0406]

I have two Kanger Subtank Mini's in my vape drawer.

If you ever want to get rid of the RBA heads, let me know...

 

[jwbnyc]

I would like to take a moment and thank the folks at ProVape for looking out for their customers.

Can you imagine the financial pressures they are under to just cave, pop out a mega market killer mod, and belly up to the open trough that the vaping market is at the moment?

Why not?

Safety. As it stands now. As it stands in the future.

Maybe they just have some scruples too.

 

[rbrylawski]

If you ever want to get rid of the RBA heads, let me know...

If you're referring to the build decks from the Subtank Mini's, my Vape shop, where I bought both have a ticket in with Kanger to get them to take them back. They both leak, which I find completely unacceptable.

 

[rbrylawski]

I would like to take a moment and thank the folks at ProVape for looking out for their customers.

Can you imagine the financial pressures they are under to just cave, pop out a mega market killer mod, and belly up to the open trough that the vaping market is at the moment?

Why not?

Safety. As it stands now. As it stands in the future.

Maybe they just have some scruples too.

I couldn't agree with you more. Provape stays true to their roots, which is to build the safest, most reliable regulated mods on the market. They may not be what everyone wants, but this thread which is now in Part 2, with more than 15,000 posts indicates they make what most of us want.

 

[JohnD0406]

Sorry, but I disagree.

Don't be sorry - if we all agreed on everything, there'd be nothing to talk about

You're making an assumption ver38 will be the only update.

In my example, yes I was. With that said, I don't believe there will be very many updates, and especially updates people will want. The bug fixes are pretty much done (except the recent display anomaly), so all that's left are features. 0.5-ohm limit was a worthwhile feature update. About the only other feature update left I'd be interested in is a higher wattage limit, but I'm not a ProVape engineer and maybe they'll come up with something I didn't know I wanted.

Yes, I knew the programmers cost $200, I just never put that number out there because I don't really think that's a significant cost in the scheme of things.

Depends on the shop really. I know several local shops that struggle to break even. $200 could make or break a month on rent. For a low-volume shop, it's a whole mod - whether that be a ProVari or a nice mechanical. I guess it depends on your perspective, and how well the shop is doing.

My Vape shop told me that every single person who has come in to have their P3 updated has bought something.

I called an asked about the update cost before I got to the shop. They were only willing to give free updates if your bought your P3 from them. Seeing as I have a beta... Well, I didn't buy anything in the shop. I didn't need anything. I do most of my purchasing online, but I do go to my local shops for juice tasting. I just have a year's supply of free juice from all the shows I attend. But, I get your point - I'm perhaps the exception.

 

[LittleBird]

Yep, you're not alone. Most people I've talked to all agree 30W would be the MINIMUM to keep up in today's market. .... Have you seen how small the board is in a ProVari? There's not much room to lose in a redesign. That's why box mods are so popular - they only need to be as high as an 18650, and there's plenty of room on the side for the board and 510 connector. Not too many options in a 22mm tube...

I have a MB WAE, a 21mm, 30 watt TC tube. It can be done ... Not weighing in on either side, just sayin'.

 

[JohnD0406]

They may not be what everyone wants, but this thread which is now in Part 2, with more than 15,000 posts indicates they make what most of us want.

There is some truth to that... The wattage I vape at depends on my mood, and the tank I use. Nothing is better than a P3 at 20W or less. Many/most of us have other mods for higher power as well. I have the SXmini for anything over 20W. There's no question ProVape owns the low-wattage market - it would just be nice if we didn't NEED two devices (though many of us are hobbyists as well, and would own them anyway)

 

[rbrylawski]

Don't be sorry - if we all agreed on everything, there'd be nothing to talk about



In my example, yes I was. With that said, I don't believe there will be very many updates, and especially updates people will want. The bug fixes are pretty much done (except the recent display anomaly), so all that's left are features. 0.5-ohm limit was a worthwhile feature update. About the only other feature update left I'd be interested in is a higher wattage limit, but I'm not a ProVape engineer and maybe they'll come up with something I didn't know I wanted.



Depends on the shop really. I know several local shops that struggle to break even. $200 could make or break a month on rent. For a low-volume shop, it's a whole mod - whether that be a ProVari or a nice mechanical. I guess it depends on your perspective, and how well the shop is doing.



I called an asked about the update cost before I got to the shop. They were only willing to give free updates if your bought your P3 from them. Seeing as I have a beta... Well, I didn't buy anything in the shop. I didn't need anything. I do most of my purchasing online, but I do go to my local shops for juice tasting. I just have a year's supply of free juice from all the shows I attend. But, I get your point - I'm perhaps the exception.

I guess this is where we differ. I buy a lot from my Vape shop. And yes, I could likely save a few $$'s by buying more online, but I like to support the local business. I'm grateful to them for a lot of reasons. I hold them responsible for ultimately helping me get off cigarettes and that's more valuable to me than the savings I might get elsewhere. I did the same with my Nikon camera. I could have purchased my DSLR online at a savings. But I bought it from Best Buy. I truly fear the day when brick and mortar stores disappear and we have no other option than online purchases. And I figure supporting the local economy isn't bad either. These stores have high overhead. So helping them keep their doors open makes me feel good. Plus their employees need customers like me. They pay rent/mortgages, buy food, clothes, etc., and without people like me, they'd have no income.

I'm glad my Vape shop has more interest in being the kind of store who builds lasting relationships with customers.

 

[FringeChief68]

I'm not a cloud chaser nor does wanting a device that can fire a .5 ohm coil at 30 watts make me one for me it's about the throat hit. And the subohm coils give me a better hit.
I know Provape can't make a device that will fit everyone's needs , but the simple fact is look at what the other companies are making and now think why are they making them. If the market wasn't there they wouldn't be pumping a new subohm device or tank out every other week.
For some to stop smoking they need a throat hit as big or bigger than they get from smoking. My clouds are bigger then what I had with my other tanks but in no way and no how am I winning any cloud contest lol.
Mercedes was mentioned and that is a great example because no one ever accused them of being behind the times or living off of what they did in the past.
They always made a good high end, state of the art car and you got what you paid for.
Now I was a Chevy fan for most of my life, was Chevy is a prime example of living off their past and it got that the only people who bought them was their fan base and after they lost most of them they went bankrupt.
Even after Ford bought back the old look of the Mustang in 2005 it took Chevy 5 years to see the light and come out with the 2010 old style Camaro.
But the only GM product I would even think about owning is a Cadillac which ironically was founded by Ford years before GM was even a company.
What I am trying to get at is a Long Long time ago Chevy was on top of the auto industry and made some very nice state of the art, good looking cars and now if it wasn't for their truck sales they would probably go out of business. Sorry for the rant there but, I recently got tired of putting money into my Hummer and traded it in for a Toyota 4Runner and I, after 40 some years of being a GM fan, am done with them.
The Bottom line,
I am a Huge Provape Fan
When I bought my ProVari I liked it so much I ended up with 9 of them. People I showed it to liked it so much that I got over a dozen people to go out and buy one including 5 family members.
I own one P3 You see what I am getting at.
Out of my 60 some mods 11 of them are made by Provape and I would very much like to keep buying their products

 

[JohnD0406]

I have a MB WAE, a 21mm, 30 watt TC tube. It can be done ... Not weighing in on either side, just sayin'.

I had to look up what a "MB WAE" was... Mark Bugs Wizard's Apprentice Evolved. I assume "Evolved" means they're using a DNA30 board? I didn't find any photos comparing the height of the WAE to a ProVari. Any chance you could post a photo of both in 18650 mode?

 

[JohnD0406]

I'm glad my Vape shop has more interest in being the kind of store who builds lasting relationships with customers.

I agree with everything you said. It's "better"; it's the "right thing to do"; etc. The first vape shop I visited, and where I got my first mod (ProVari v2.5), was very close to where I used to work. I was loyal to that shop, and visited several times a week. I bought all kinds of extra things from them. I got my charger there. I got my batteries there. I got my juice there. I'd still go there if I lived or worked anywhere near them, but jobs change. I don't think I could be loyal to any other store - they're all just shops to me. They all sell different merchandise, and usually have higher prices. I still send smokers to the shops, and often go with them, but for myself it's a different story.

How many people on this forum just ordered an Xtar charger online vs going to their local shop? Why might that be? Could be not only the convenience of online shopping, or the lower prices, but maybe you don't know which, if any, of your local shops carry Xtar?

Again, I get your point, but if there were more people like you, Wal-Mart wouldn't exist to strong-arm small businesses out of business (but that's another topic).

 

[LittleBird]

There is some truth to that... it would just be nice if we didn't NEED two devices (though many of us are hobbyists as well, and would own them anyway)

Yes, that's exactly it. What began as a health issue - and is still, truth to tell - has evolved into something much more. When I first started to build coils, for which I am ever indebted to Bronze, I thought the KFL+ would be my first and last foray into rebuildables. I was quite wrong. It isn't so much the next best thing, it is about new experiences. I still love chocolate, but I've come to know that I also like sea salted caramel and mango lassi sorbet. I love my P3/Erlk, but I also love my WAE/Chalice 3, and my squonkers/BFs. This is the wonderful thing about vaping: there are many flavors; one size most definitely does not fit all. I like lots of different flavors; I am delighted that I'm not forced to choose only one!

 

[LittleBird]

I had to look up what a "MB WAE" was... Mark Bugs Wizard's Apprentice Evolved. I assume "Evolved" means they're using a DNA30 board? I didn't find any photos comparing the height of the WAE to a ProVari. Any chance you could post a photo of both in 18650 mode?

I will, in the morning. Hopefully, not upside down. . And yes, it's a DNA30.

ETA: I'm sorry; I shouldn't have assumed you'd know that acronym.

 

[rbrylawski]

I agree with everything you said. It's "better"; it's the "right thing to do"; etc. The first vape shop I visited, and where I got my first mod (ProVari v2.5), was very close to where I used to work. I was loyal to that shop, and visited several times a week. I bought all kinds of extra things from them. I got my charger there. I got my batteries there. I got my juice there. I'd still go there if I lived or worked anywhere near them, but jobs change. I don't think I could be loyal to any other store - they're all just shops to me. They all sell different merchandise, and usually have higher prices. I still send smokers to the shops, and often go with them, but for myself it's a different story.

How many people on this forum just ordered an Xtar charger online vs going to their local shop? Why might that be? Could be not only the convenience of online shopping, or the lower prices, but maybe you don't know which, if any, of your local shops carry Xtar?

Again, I get your point, but if there were more people like you, Wal-Mart wouldn't exist to strong-arm small businesses out of business (but that's another topic).

I checked all the local shops for Xtar, but they either sell Intellicharger, or Efest chargers, so yes, I ordered it online. I'm not anti-online. When there's something I want, if I can't get it locally, I'll happily order it online. No one in Tampa sells Authentic Kayfun's. Many sell clones. I wouldn't consider a Kayfun clone. So I ordered from an authorized Kayfun dealer.

 

[jwbnyc]

The fact is there is nothing stopping ProVape from putting out a model for every niche in the market other than their belief that the facts are not in on them yet.

Nothing precludes ProVape from moving in to the higher watt market at some time in the future.

I fully expect they would do that if they thought it was safe.

I suspect that high power vaping is not going to be found to be safer than low power vaping. That's my opinion only. From my own experience, I know that high power, sub ohm vaping, is not so good for me. I do it anyway sometimes. If I didn't do things that were bad for me, I wouldn't need to vape to keep from smoking.

Whether or not high powered vaping is safer that smoking is something to be answered by doing more research. I suspect that it is. Again, my opinion only.

ProVape is not resting on its laurels.

 

[Jethead]

I've asked in several other forums and places... Thought I'd ask here.

I'm waiting on tank and atty manufacturers to come up with P3 adapters for their tanks, apparently they are waiting on Provari to do it.

I'd love a P3 connector for a Erlkonigin.

What are my chances of seeing one? I believe they are well on their way to selling as many atty's as Svomesto....