Ontario legislator introduces bill to ban sale of snus, Sweanor points out benefits of snus and harm reduction

[Bill Godshall]

Smokeless tobacco
Smoking Cessation Aid or Health Risk?
CTVNEWS: David Sweanor versus France Gelinas

CTV News | News Video - Top National News Headlines - News Videos

A Canadian debate over the merits of banning snus and tobacco harm reduction.

France Gelinas is the Ontario legislator who introduced a bill to ban snus, and David Sweanor used to be legislative director for the Non Smokers Rights Association of Canada and has been advocating tobacco harm reduction products and policies for the past 15 years.

By any objective measure, Sweanor won the debate hands down.

 

[CapitalPuff]

Ms. Gelinas seemed to do what they all do... Jump on the pharma train and assume that nicotine dependence is the problem... Maybe it was just me, but she sure didn't sound all that credible. Mr. Sweanor hardly had to say a word.

Thanks for the link!

 

[DC2]

I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that people like her make me want to scream.

Effective non-tobacco products already on the market?
Really? Where?

It seems apparent that this is a battle of truth vs money and zealotry.
And if truth wants to win, then truth needs to step out of the shadows and make itself known.

And how do we do that?
We all do that, every day, a little bit at a time.

And that means YOU.

 

[Fiamma]

In two words, ideological zealot.

 

[Bill Godshall]

An even more impressive debate victory for Sweanor over Gelinas.

I don't think Gelinas realizes that every time she talks about this issue, more people will support tobacco harm reduction and reject abstinence-only prohibitionism.

David Sweanor versus France Gelinas
Jerry Agar Podcast June 28, 2012 (segment starts at 1:05)
NEWSTALK 1010 - IN-DEPTH RADIO :: Jerry Agar Podcast :: Jerry Agar

 

[TennDave]

Bill, checked your link out and all I see are folks on a roller coaster

Edit: Never mind- I found it...

I loved the two who called in w/ their comments!!

I'm copied just the section of that program that pertains to our topic and saved it in MP3- if anyone wants it PM me w/ your email address and I'll send it to you.

 

[CJsKee]

Dave -- can ya just post the link or point me in the right direction? All I see is the roller coaster (makes my tumbley rumbley ;-)

 

[Kurt]

Gelina is an complete incoherent idiot that says things that do not make any sense at all. They have an "herbal mixture that delivers nicotine"?? Did others hear that too? The doctor that called in made her look like a total ...... She has no arguments, she has fear based talking points meant to appeal to people's emotions. There has never been a study that shows that flavored tobacco appeals to kids. Kids smoke Marlboros. And the rational for snus is simply it is tobacco, and tobacco is bad, mmkay. She was really stumbling when she had to explain why the host's severely ill father should not be allowed snus after it was made very clear that pharma products did not work at all, as is the case for over 90% of people that use them. That was when Gelina just started blathering and sputtering. She had nothing and she knew it.

Here is the thing I see. She is bought or threatened or her job is on the line. She, like so many other public figures, must only state the talking points big pharma or big gov't tells them to say. Where is the debate to ban normal everyday cigarettes, which is what kids smoke? I don't think you will ever see that. As has been pointed out, taxes on cigs pay for a whole lotta stuff. Big pharma loves it that people can't quit on their nic products...more future customers for their cancer money conveyer belt. More tobacco tax for the gov't coffers.

I say let her keep blathering away! Even the uneducated would come away from that show wondering where they can buy snus!

My first response when I heard this show, as well as the other one Bill posted, was to pop a snus. And I hadn't had any in a LONG time. Mmmm, snus goooood!

 

[TennDave]

Dave -- can ya just post the link or point me in the right direction? All I see is the roller coaster (makes my tumbley rumbley ;-)

I don't think that works...I could upload it somewhere but I don't have a place to do that w/ an MP3 file. If you try to link directly to that particular show on the initial link that Bill posted, you still come up with the general website. I also only saw the roller coaster at first. Scroll below that and then click next for the second page.... The show from 6/28 is on the second page, I believe. You can click on it and download it- that's easier to navigate to 1 hour 5 minutes to hear the pertinent parts.

 

[Spazmelda]

You can download the Jerry agar show on iTunes. Look for the correct date, and fast forward to the correct time point.

I'm so glad the host called her on the misrepresentation of the percentage of Swedish population that smokes vs. those that use tobacco ( which she also said in the video, but nobody corrected). Do you think she knew that and was misstating it on purpose, or is she just an idiot?

Also, "it's not part of our culture, it's not part of our culture, it's not part of our culture". What kind of lame ... argument is that? You know what IS part of your culture? Cigarettes and associated diseases. Yeah, extreme logic fail.

 

[kristin]

How can she claim Sweden has a 30-35% smoking rate? According to a 2005 WHO report I found, Canada had a 24% smoking rate and Sweden had a 19% smoking rate. It may be higher in Norway, but snus isn't used as much in Norway. That and the claim that any treatments currently allowed are "effective."

A very interesting factoid - I looked on the WHO web site for current smoking rates by country and they had it listed as TOBACCO USE rather than by smoking rates, which is really deceptive. It could be where she got that the smoking rate was so high, because the male tobacco use rate in Canada was listed as 24% (17% for females) and it's 41% in Sweden (22% for females.) That means that about half of the male tobacco users in Sweden don't smoke, while all of the users in Canada smoke.

This report (http://www.smoke-free.ca/pdf_1/snus-comparative-experiences.pdf) compares tobacco use rather than smoking rates and lists the Canadian rates as much lower than what I've found elsewhere. (A 2010 Health Canada reported 20% male smokers.) Plus, they like to flip flop between smoking and tobacco rates and twist things - acknowledging that Sweden has lower mortality rates from smoking than Canada but stating that Canada is "making faster progress against smoking related diseases" (whatever that means - you still have more people dying from smoking with a lot less people using tobacco!)

So, Canada has had greater numbers quit smoking, but if you look at the chart, they started out with a lot more people smoking in the first place! So they went from over 50% males smoking in 1976 down to about 22% smoking in 2006. Sweden went from 35% to about 25%. So, the theory is that Canada is doing better because of how many people quit rather than how many smoke now? That's like my kid saying he's doing better in school than his brother because he raised his grades 2 grades from F's to C's and his brother only raised his by 1 grade from B's to A's.

 

[Projectguy]

Ms. Gelinas' efforts have "lit" me up on a number of fronts. But I think that the key here is that in spite of her misguided attempt there are a two good news stories here:

1. A private members bill from the ranks of the opposition rarely sees the light of enacted legislation, but more importantly;

2. HARM REDUCTION IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK THE AVERAGE CANADIAN UNDERSTANDS AND WILL SUPPORT

 

[VapApe]

You can download the Jerry agar show on iTunes. Look for the correct date, and fast forward to the correct time point.

I'm so glad the host called her on the misrepresentation of the percentage of Swedish population that smokes vs. those that use tobacco ( which she also said in the video, but nobody corrected). Do you think she knew that and was misstating it on purpose, or is she just an idiot?

Also, "it's not part of our culture, it's not part of our culture, it's not part of our culture". What kind of lame ... argument is that? You know what IS part of your culture? Cigarettes and associated diseases. Yeah, extreme logic fail.

Yes heaven forbid, That Canadian culture change for the better

 

[recidivus]

Effective NRTs....like gum. Oh now there's a patch that's better. Oh now there's inhalers, they're better. Oh now there's lozenges, they're better. If they're so damn effective why do they need to roll a new one out every 5 years?

 

[rothenbj]

Effective NRTs....like gum. Oh now there's a patch that's better. Oh now there's inhalers, they're better. Oh now there's lozenges, they're better. If they're so damn effective why do they need to roll a new one out every 5 years?

Because they're better? Just joking.