Open enrollment Tobacco affidavits, now no E-cigs too?

[dragonladee]

For the last 5 or 6 years, our insurance has had a tobacco "surcharge" on health insurance premiums. They used to just take our word for it and we had to sign something or pay the fees, and everyone just assumes that if you lie and then get sick on a tobacco related illness you won't be covered, or if they catch it they could reject coverage even without tobacco related illness. Well, last year things changed. They made my husband (the employee) take lab tests to prove he is not a tobacco user (he is not, has never been). I get it, they are cracking down.

But we just got our open enrollment paperwork, and I was expecting our usual Tobacco Free Affidavits. As I'm reading, I notice they have changed the definition of "Tobacco products" to include e-cigarettes!!!! It specifies cigarettes, e-cigarettes, pipes, cigars, and chewing tobacco - in that order - and that you can't have used any of these products within the 6 months prior to signing this affidavit.

First of all, they have never sent me in for lab tests since I am not the employee, but still...I hate toe-ing this line and risking being rejected for coverage later. Even if they did test, the only thing they could possibly find is nicotine...and I could logically explain that I am chewing gum, etc. I would not actually have the same metabolic leftovers that they test for in a cigarette smoker, I know. But I don't know how they can even legally do that since there is no tobacco in an ecig?

Has anyone else had/heard of this happening with their insurance coverage?

 

[RoseB]

Wow that is disgusting! Personally I would lie and use the gum excuse. Such a heap of b.s. any stinking excuse to get paid in and not have to pay out. Sorry this has happened to you.

 

[TheVap3Junkie]

Our company just started tobacco status for insurance purposes this year. I read through the list and ecigs were not included. My supervisor said that I had to check that I was a tobacco user because of nicotine in my ecigs to which I responded absolutely not! If they want to start an anti stimulant campaign thats a different story but in no way shape or form will I consider myself a tobacco user.

 

[steved5600]

I always hated dealing with insurance companies, banks and the IRS. They seem to have diff rules to follow. My Dad use to be an executive at one Insurance co. and he retired a little early was feed up with what was going on. Ins co's have changed their focus a bunch in my lifetime. Disgusting is just no a bad enough word to describe them. Greedy bastages is just about bad enough.

 

[zapped]

A LOT of the new regulations being pushed on insurance companies have nothing to do with them and much to do with new government regulations. Im not trying to get into a political debate about the merits of this party versus that party but the amount of bureaucratic bul...err paperwork generated recently for banks, insurance companies, health care and small businesses is beyond the point of ridiculousness.

 

[Petej]

My employer has the same BS for Analogs and Tobacco in general... E-cigs are not on their list though. They do approve of gum and the patch, so I imagine they treat E-cigs much the same...

 

[zapped]

Theres an easy fix for this.Go to your local Pharmacy or Wal-Mart and ask if you can return unopened Nicorette gum, lozenges or packages after purchase. Buy 6 months worth.If they say yes then return them the next day after photocopying the receipt and putting it in your records.

As far as I know they have no way of telling the difference between those and PV's.

 

[DC2]

This is becoming more and more popular with employers, almost certainly because it is being pushed by insurance companies.
Nobody has yet found the smoking gun that indicates exactly why this new direction is becoming more popular with insurance companies though.

I've seen people suggest that it is because insurance companies know that NRTs do not work...
So if you have nicotine in your system they assume you are using an NRT product and will go back to smoking soon enough...

Whether or not they have given any thought to how electronic cigarettes are changing the game is unknown.
And whether or not they know it is changing the game and do not care is unknown.

I have also seen it suggested that they don't care because they think long-term nicotine use might be dangerous and have no proof otherwise...
And without such proof, and long-term statistics, they can't really make predictions on the future of nicotine users...

(The interesting thing is that such proof most certainly exists, although it is ignored by the anti-tobacco coalitions)

So because they don't know, they aren't changing anything, because they are playing the safer bet.
Which is a bunch of crap, but sort of how things work with them.

This is all just some things that have been discussed over and over in various similar threads.
What parts are true is unknown.

 

[NICnurse]

Let week I received the same info from my hospital health insurance. I knew it was coming, or rather I had a hunch it was coming. Ecigs are included in my hospital definition as well. Such a crock.

 

[dimo]

I ran into this issue with my insurance company a while back. The issue mainly stems from the way they test for cigarettes. The cheapest and easiest way for them to test is to test for nicotine in your system. Unfortunately this affects all other forms of nicotine use, like our PV's, smokeless tobacco, chewing tobacco, gums, patches, cigars, etc. If they find nicotine in your system, you get the smokers rate, which obviously is much higher than non-smoker rates. If it were as easy as telling them you're on the patch, everyone would lie to get the lower rates.

I know it sucks but it's something we have to deal with. I had a test coming up and what I did was switch to 0 nic juice for 2 months, took the test and came back as a non smoker. Then went back to my 11-12mg juice.

 

[Wizeblood1182]

several of the hospitals in the Dallas area have adopted a No-Nicotine policy. They are adding nicotine to the list of other drugs that they are testing for during pre-employment screening. It's almost sick.

 

[dragonladee]

So it seems the consensus is that most companies have still not added e-cigarettes to their list of no-nos, but I am obviously not alone and this is a trend being leaned toward...I made a copy of our affidavit before we sent it back, I was considering sending it in to CASAA to be looked at.

Nicotine stays in your bloodstream for 48 hours, so if you HAD to go the route of passing a test-you would only have to swap to zero nic for a few days as long as you knew when the test was. When they did my husband's labs, they sent him the forms and appointment info well in advance, and they weren't testing for nic...it was some other kind of test, it measures something that specifically only occurs if you smoke actual tobacco. Since they have changed the definitions this year though, they may have also changed the test? Not sure.

The wording of this affidavit is ridiculous. I don't see how they can get away with telling me that my e-cigarette is tobacco

 

[dragonladee]

several of the hospitals in the Dallas area have adopted a No-Nicotine policy. They are adding nicotine to the list of other drugs that they are testing for during pre-employment screening. It's almost sick.

Seriously? My own doctor told me that nicotine alone isn't much different than caffeine, and we are very cavalier about coffee and soft drinks. Will they be testing for that next? Wouldn't want anyone on the job under the influence of those big bad stimulants....brings new meaning to the word "coke head" lol. Geez.

 

[CommaHolly]

I checked into how much my life insurance would go down WHEN after I started e-cigs,,,,,,,in the past, they've always said "tobacco products",,,,

now they are saying "Nicotine products". I suppose if you vape 0 nic, you could get around that,,,,,,,but since I don't YET vape 0 nic, I can't.

 

[oxygen thief]

Lawyers. Ins companies don't want to pay. They don't know who, if anyone, will get sick. But just in case they won't pay for it.

 

[Drael]

They probably wont pay, even if you do need to get a pay out.

With alot of insurance, your better putting the money aside yourself, to save for future costs.

Id either change my insurance provider to one without such a ridiculous policy (that equates nicotine with a known carcinogen in terms of risk), or just save the money u would have paid on insurance, and use that for any costs.

Course it depends on the costs that might be involved, but in order for the insurance companies to make money, they need to receive more money than they pay out. Its like a casino, the odds are delibrately stacked against you. Unless the cost is very high (like house insurance), it may be worths "covering" yourself.

So yeah, sit down with a calculator, and see how much money you could save, in a seperate bank account, by not having insurance. Then look at the kind of costs youd need to pay etc...

IDK about US medical insurance. But I do know that the odds always have to be stacked against you. Even people who pay for years, and have legitimate claims often dont get paid out.

 

[CommaHolly]

They probably wont pay, even if you do need to get a pay out.

With alot of insurance, your better putting the money aside yourself, to save for future costs.

Id either change my insurance provider to one without such a ridiculous policy (that equates nicotine with a known carcinogen in terms of risk), or just save the money u would have paid on insurance, and use that for any costs.

Course it depends on the costs that might be involved, but in order for the insurance companies to make money, they need to receive more money than they pay out. Its like a casino, the odds are delibrately stacked against you. Unless the cost is very high (like house insurance), it may be worths "covering" yourself.

So yeah, sit down with a calculator, and see how much money you could save, in a seperate bank account, by not having insurance. Then look at the kind of costs youd need to pay etc...

IDK about US medical insurance. But I do know that the odds always have to be stacked against you. Even people who pay for years, and have legitimate claims often dont get paid out.

with all due respect,,,,,

my sister had a kidney transplant,,,,,,,,,final cost, including the costs of the living donor,,,,,,,,well over a million dollars.


it failed. she needs another.

NOBODY can save a million dollars,,,,,,I'd rather the insurance company took the risk than *I* take the risk,,,,

 

[TheVap3Junkie]

I would send the form to cassa I'm curious to see what they would say. An update on mine- The insurance company tobacco policy says no tobacco but doesnt mention ecigs the company handout does mention ecigs. I checked no tobacco use.

 

[damthisisfun]

My health insurance did the same last year - but e-cigs were not considered a tobacco product as long as - check this out - "use for smoking cessation and does not contain tobacco products" . I was like - WT? First of all - FDA has ruled that e-cigs are not an approved smoking cessation device. Second - all nicotine comes from tobacco. Is this a catch 22? I called and spoke with a rep - and she said as long as I was using an e-cig and not "smoking" I was not a tobacco user......go figure............bunch of nuts I tell ya.....

 

[damthisisfun]

Wait a minute - like i said in my post earlier - nicotine is a tobacco product - and technically so are some flavors that are extracted from tobacco - so it appears to me that an e-cig is technically a tobacco product - and yes so is the patch, gum and spray - but they are FDA approved as cessation products - but the e-cig is not. Talk about confusion - but I vape...............