Oregon AG's using Office to try to ban selling of 'E-cigarette'

[BubbasMom]

I unfortunately also live in Oregon and believe me it is not because they are concerned for our health. Much like California, Oregon is having budget troubles. While the federal govt added a tax to analogs this year, the state of OR has been doing that each year for the last 13 years that I have lived here. Originally it was under the guise that they were using the money to fund stop smoking programs and offset health costs. We know how that went.

The liquor stores are owned by the state and so hard liquor can only be purchased between the hours of 11am-7pm Mon - Sat. Not to mention the price is ridiculous and it's cheaper to buy in either CA or Canada.

I will just continue to buy online and feel healthier. I just refuse to pay the high prices for decent analogs and suffer with the hacking every day.

 

[HighTech]

Let's play with some numbers. If 400,000 people die a year from tobacco smoke, and the median salary in the united states is roughly $50k in 2007 according to Wiki. And say that they only pay 20% income tax and we forgo the additional taxes on purchases, property, etc. then that is 400,000 x 50,000 (remember this is median so half will fall below and half will be higher) and that is 2x10^10 which is $20,000,000,000 in taxes. This once again does not include additional taxes. Even if you cut that in half because this is the household income where two are combining to make 50k, it's still a big chunk of change.

Now to me I would think keeping them alive is more money than banning electronic cigs and having them die off with analogs.

I don't know if my number playing is correct as there is a lot of variables .... but I still would think it's in the favor of the government to keep people alive to work.

Maybe someone else can negate my statement, confirm, or add to it.

Good points. But keep in mind that they Gov outlay in benefits after age 62 (social security, higher healthcare costs, etc.) probably far exceeds any taxes received on income. Seems it would be in the best interest of the Gov to let you croak as soon as possible after retirement age...

 

[Luke15_7]

And the state-side hypocrisy starts! Big Tobacco will get a bye on this, as will the burger joints, pizza delivery and places that make 2500+ calorie entrees that most certainly threaten the health and safety of the populace. Yet our much maligned PVs, while not quite "healthy" as can be argued, are proven considerably safer than analogs to anyone that cares to give the test even a cursory glance. The majority of American citizens will ignorantly take this at face value and agree with the demonization of a product that, while admittedly was intruduced without proper testing, could save countless lives as opposed to the original killer.

This issue has opened my eyes more than any other event. Count on me contacting my state's AG and elected officials to try my two cents worth, even if I'm just the voice of one crying in the wilderness.

 

[Drema]

I unfortunately also live in Oregon and believe me it is not because they are concerned for our health. Much like California, Oregon is having budget troubles. While the federal govt added a tax to analogs this year, the state of OR has been doing that each year for the last 13 years that I have lived here. Originally it was under the guise that they were using the money to fund stop smoking programs and offset health costs. We know how that went.

The liquor stores are owned by the state and so hard liquor can only be purchased between the hours of 11am-7pm Mon - Sat. Not to mention the price is ridiculous and it's cheaper to buy in either CA or Canada.

I will just continue to buy online and feel healthier. I just refuse to pay the high prices for decent analogs and suffer with the hacking every day.

I am from Oregon to and you’re absolutely right on the budget. The cigarette tax was meant to help people stop smoking, inform children the dangers of smoking and to cover the health cost ( which we paid anyway through taxes) of those who smoke. I have looked at the pie chart that outlines what was spent for what and it aint for what they said it was. The same goes for the lottery. The funds were to go to the parks department to boost tourism, but a very small portion goes to do that. What is funny is that Oregon is welcoming a new stop smoking product called " nico water". It is a bottle of water laced with nicotine. They say that e-cigs are targeting kids, well what’s too stop them from reaching in the fridge and grabbing a bottle of this "nico water", they are truly hypocrites. Oregon is a joke, they try so hard to be socialist but the constitution gets in their way. Remember this is the same state that offered the smoker help by sending them a toothpick, a rubberband and a rock ( toothpick was for the oral habit, rock was to sooth away anxeities from smoking and the rubberband was placed on the wrist to snap thoes urges away)

 

[Annastasia]

God, that is so typical of this state. I love Oregon, but I was shocked when I first moved out here at how many damn *laws* there are. In Michigan, my home state, you could buy beer at a drive through store (don't know if that's still true) and get a driver's license for 5 dollars. In Oregon, you go to state run liquor stores with short hours and high prices, and a license costs over $80. They get your money any way they can, whenever they can out here. I am so tired of being over regulated and overcharged.

Yesterday, I ran into one of those clipboard carriers outside of New Seasons. He was campaigning to make it illegal to use plastic bags. Maybe it was the heat, but I snapped at the poor guy. "The last thing Oregon needs is another f*cking law!" said I, and stormed off. I feel bad now, but he was a casualty of my frustration.

Let people make their own decisions, already, and live with the consequences. D: Grrr.

 

[NY JETS]

Remember this is the same state that offered the smoker help by sending them a toothpick, a rubberband and a rock ( toothpick was for the oral habit, rock was to sooth away anxeities from smoking and the rubberband was placed on the wrist to snap thoes urges away)

That really true?

 

[NY JETS]

They haven't even banned e-cig sales, they just came to an agreement to pull them from the shelves of two store chains. These thread titles aren't good for us, our collective blood pressure is high enough as it is.

 

[vaporich]

i dont think we should worry, it will take a long time, to other states, to follow suit, i think by then there should be a very good study out. to prove, what the deal is.
that is a huge double standard. I guess they should bann analogs, alcohol, and narcotics, in oregon too. They all threaten the health and safety in oregon. Wait thats right, alcohol helps our livers. and it certainly doesnt take thousands of innocent lives every day from dui crashes, i forgot, stupid me. This is why it will take a while for something to pass.

 

[TheUltimateG]

I would suspect that mail order for Oregonians is still a go, unless the Oregon AG is ordering all domestic mail to be opened and inspected. Talk about a serious constitutional violation there.

Does this mean people will still be able to purchase e-cigs and liquid via the mail?

 

[mixxy]

I'm in Oregon too... and as long as I can still buy online... I'm fine with that. I'd be much more upset if Oregon decided to have a sales tax... I love being a sales tax free state!

 

[mamu]

The problem is online suppliers might not sell to people in Oregon now.

This same thing happened in Canada. When the ban hit Canada, not only did the online Canadian e-cig suppliers go out of business, but also online suppliers in the USA and elsewhere refused to sell to people in Canada.

 

[fritz]

Mamu,

Interstate commerce is not regulated like international commerce. The problem with US suppliers sending to Canada was with customs. Packages have to have some kind of declaration on them for tax purposes. Of course one could lie about the contents... but if they eventually got caught, it would be jail time.

There is no such issue sending state to state.

Another problem could be, at times, the time it took to get through Canadian customs. I remember not too long ago (two years ago?), there was a back-log at customs that had packages taking up to two months to get through.

 

[Boom!]

I was thinking about this last night and wondering if a lawsuit versus the AG & the state would stand any chance. I don't think so.

I'm no lawyer but what are the consequences from the AG's actions?
Action = Ban selling in the state and create fear/doubt of these devices in the general public opinion.
Consequence = consumers continue to buy cigarettes because it is easier, fewer smokers sitting on the fence will be convinced to try these devices (hell I've seen comments on blogs from vapers saying "OMG - I'll never use these things again!"), and ultimately the state continues to get their taxes.

Has the AG outlawed e-cigs until proven safe? No. Told anyone to stop using them? No. Banned the use of? Nope. That would probably get them in trouble. A lawyer could probably argue that the AG endangered or caused harm by preventing people from using a device that studies have already shown it to have far fewer known carcinogens than traditional tobacco cigarettes.

But it is interesting to hear the AG say their motives are to protect the health of their residents. "When products threaten the health and safety of Oregonians, we will take action," said Mary Williams, deputy attorney general. "If companies want to sell electronic cigarettes to consumers, they have to be able to prove they are safe."

If that were the true motivation and the AG were convinced that some type of governmental action was indeed necessary, wouldn't they just ban the use of the e-cig altogether? (don't get me started on the analogs = it just wont happen).

Will we soon see the first person make the headlines "Ex-smoker arrested for possession of an electronic cigarette"? Are Oregonians going to start having to quickly put their e-cig down when they pull up beside a cop in traffic? It's amazing how easily the FDA has gotten the media to demonized the e-cig in the public eye. Can you imagine even the smokers not wanting us around with our devices?

sorry long rant, probably way off the mark, but needed to get it out...

 

[Surf Monkey]

The problem is online suppliers might not sell to people in Oregon now.

Nonsense. Owning and using a PV is NOT illegal in Oregon. The only think they're banning is the SALE of PVs in Oregon. That doesn't block anyone in Oregon from buying a PV that was sold somewhere else. We can continue to buy online just as we always have.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I was thinking about this last night and wondering if a lawsuit versus the AG & the state would stand any chance. I don't think so.

Good post. The key thing about the AG's ruling is that it's centered on health claims. PVs are only outlawed to the extent that the sellers haven't been able to back up their claims. They're still legal to own and use, they just can't be sold until the health claims are backed up.

 

[grimmer255]

why dont they stop making health claim and start selling them as Vaporizers. vaporizers are perfectly legal and you can buy all kinds of weird alternatives to marijuana, marijuana, and tobacco to use in vaporizers.....so just sell only as a vaporizer. stop calling them ecigs...call them e-vape or something that doesn't sound like tobacco or tobacco products.

 

[~bruce~]

I'm wondering why SE and NJOY haven't already done this study. It can't be that difficult to conduct a small study of these e-cigs vs. analogs... do a few blood tests for bad stuff, or the lack thereof....... get with it man! These people want to sell this product here but are too lazy to do some basic homework first??
I am personally ...... at SE anyway.....I paid a ridiculous price for my gold edition....justified by their willingness to fight the FDA over these things....I think they screwed themselves and everyone trying to quit real cigs in the end. I will never spend another dime with them.

 

[grimmer255]

And start selling aroma juices that can be used for aroma therapy....that way you can prove that this ecig is also used for aroma therapy. Try many different things so the attended use can be changed from nicotine use to something entirely different . Just a thought....also get with the manufacturers and tell them to start lowing the amount of nicotine that is being sold....anything over 8mg is just insane because it places you on the radar. tell them to start making up many different types of liquid that has nothing to do with nicotine simply many herbs that are used for aroma therapy.....also

Lobelia can be used to replace nicotine b/c it works with the nicotine receptors....just some other thoughts

 

[fritz]

Lobelia can be used to replace nicotine b/c it works with the nicotine receptors....just some other thoughts

LOBELIA!!!???

Hilarious!

Yeah, I imagine that e-cigs would be good seller when the carts are made from "pukeweed" and "vomitwort"
Considering its a purgative, it would give great new meaning to "heaving" on your M401!

edit: On second thought, this might be the way to convince the nannies that were not marketing flavors to kids!..

 

[moonlight]

at least as of now in Washington State they are legal...KING5 news contacted the Wa St AG after a story on ecigs and were notified by the AG office that ecigs do not fall under Washington State's smoking laws since they arent ignited/burning materials...lets hope it stays that way here, since i enjoy being able to puff away in my local watering holes

That's great to hear. I was just thinking WA's gotta be next in line!