Panasonic NCR18650A, Panasonic CGR18650CH

[Freddie]

No man we are just talking.



From everything I've seen the limit is actually a bit less and can vary with the cells voltage. Those booster-step down chips are a little odd.

Maybe you'll find this interesting. It's from the datasheet of the chip they use.

Now I don't know if this is exactly how the LT operates but you can see how the AMPs vary quite a bit.

The black trace is a 4.5V output. I've marked in red the voltage range of out batteries.

As far as your question this should give a general ( but not perfect) example of what is needed.

Online Conversion - Ohm's Law Calculator

We will use this. 4.9V / 2Ω atty -> 2.5A /12W. Now if we were using a step-down regulator that would be pretty close. The LT has to boost the voltage to get there though.

So lets take say 4V and shoot for the same 12W. Plunk the 12W and 4V into that calc it now reads 3A. Do it again with 3.5V and we now see the cell needs to provide 3.5A (and that's not figuring in the additional effiency loss, ~15%?). You get the general idea a single boosted cell has to work much harder than than a pair of stacked cells.




Well you realize we are discussing unprotected cells, I have no idea where you come up with the fact that somehow the Sanyo is lacking something that is only found in the Panasonic.

Here's a pic from one of Sanyo's Li-Ion tech sheets.

Are these the "Many abbreviations" enough? Have no fear if a Sanyo cell is shorted it's PTC will do exactly what the Panasonic would do as will the Sanyo's CID.



First off Panasonic does not make an IMR/LiMn2O4 chemistry cell.

Please post some of tests of which you speak. All this anecdotal BEST crap is getting old as is your caps lock key.


You sure about that? AW has a rather extensive line of batteries. I didn't think Panasonic was into 10440, 14500, 16340, 17670, 18350, 18490s... they aren't actually.

Yeah FOOL, I do have proof! Go to Callie's Kustoms website and do your research!

 

[VAPNJ350]

Hey willy thought I might chime in on this one just to kinda give you some info a data testing so you can look over it then tell me what you think by the outcome. I know this might end up being a bit lengthy but I feel it may be needed at this point,bare with me folks. Im an electrical engineer who has a decent knowledge base of batteries and have a test bench with multiple high dollar testing devices as I work for HP, a few I bought but HP did supply me with the high end extremely expensive units I use for work and testing different devices and batteries. Just take a minute if you can and kinda browse thru this info, theirs a lot more out there along with my own data printouts but this pretty much sums it up in the cliff notes :

http://www.pohl-electronic.de/pdf/Panasonic/CGR18650CH.pdf

Reference: mitro's pile of battery graphs | BudgetLightForum.com


The 2nd link goes into detail and tests 3-4 high quality Top name brand batteries..... Callie's Kustom, AW, Bestinone.net, Trustfire. Yes the Trustfire came in DEAD last (if I recall correctly). Now their is a ecf member who knows FAR MORE about this particular situation than me and I wish I could recall his screen name but he has MANY posts about batteries and even clued me into some things I didn't know, I'll try to find his name and posts so you can check it out and report back. But the way I understood it is this...1st and foremost Panasonic absolutely does make an IMR high drain battery, to my knowledge only in the 18650 size, and 3 different models. And before I get too far into this, In NO WAY SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION am I trying to directly or indirectly take ANYTHING away from AW batteries or discredit them in anyway. They are GREAT batteries, I use them, I love them, they are a great superior battery. But all I can add to that is the numbers don't lie. Anyone who reads and looks at the graphs in the above link and know how to read them will CLEARLY see whats what when it comes down to brass tax. Now, the way I understand it (and the person mentioned above has more and detailed info on this) I'm going to put this in a lamens terms kinda analogy, say AW gets a pallet of battery cells (and to my knowledge,yes AW uses a Panasonic cell) AW puts those cells thru charge and discharge cycles under various amperage loads then test those same cells to find out which ones were the "cream of the crop" if you will, then only those cells get the famous red-orange vinyl wrap and the AW logo put on them for sale. All the left over cells get sold off to go inside whatever company has a use for that size cell to go inside whatever their making blah blah blah etc etc.... Now I'm sure their will be people who either disagree or are doubtful (this is ecf)but all I can say is do some thorough homework and in depth research for yourself. I can say the guy who originally posted this has a VERY long and extensive thread on this subject and then some and believe me when I say the man knows his stuff, I'm just hoping I relayed all that he explained on the AW/Panasonic situation correctly and accurately according to his post,and brotha if it's you I'm refering to and your reading this please correct ANYTHING I may have misunderstood or miscomprehended but I'm pretty sure I hit it spot on. I dont want to get in a peein' contest with a fellow member over it just wanted to maybe shed some light on the subject from a different prospective based on personal knowledge. I really hope this atleast helped maybe 1 person out there and possibly answered a few questions for them. You folks take care and please keep vapin' ........................J

 

[Freddie]

As I SAID, THE BEST 18650 BATTS. PERIOD!

 

[killovicz]

hahahahahahahahaha

Jesus Christ, lol

 

[Freddie]

HAHAHA...NO REPLY...SOMEBODY must be doing their RESEARCH! LOL!

OH BTW...They are IMR's...HAHAHA...LOL!

 

[Str8V8ping]

The panasonic cgr's (calliesKustom) are IMR and have been proven to be the best cells available without a doubt. The AW are also great batteries but are not as good as the callies.They are the only two cells i will use.

 

[forcedfuel50]

I load tested the Panasonic CGR18650CG IMR 18650 2250mAh against the AW IMR 18650 1600mAh and the winner is? It all depends on your vaping style and mod type. Test was performed at 2.5amps or the approximate draw of a LR 1.5ohm atomizer.

At first glance, the larger total mAh of the Panasonic is impressive, but keep in mind, all that extra mAh comes after the battery is discharged below 3.5 Volts, up until that point, the AW IMR holds a higher voltage under load and achieves more mAh.

My thoughts:

-If you run Non variable voltage mods such as the SB, GG, Super T etc, the AW IMR 18650 is probably the better choice. Assuming you change your batteries out at 3.5 volts by which time your vapor is getting weaker, the AW IMR 18650 1600mAh holds higher voltage under load up until that point (which means more vapor and hit) and achieves 1125 mAh at 3.5V whereas the Panasonic achieves 1011mAh @ 3.5V.

-If you run Variable Voltage/Wattage mods, the Panasonic then becomes the better choice as VV mods will continue to boost down to 3.0-3.3 Volts, where the extra mAh of the Panasonic can come into play.* I put the asterisk as i'm going to run a test at 5amps to simulate higher loads of a VV device.

 

[NC_Fog]

Orbtronic Has the CGR18650CH $4.00 cheaper each than Callies($6.00 shipping) and ship free.

 

[DaveP]

Interesting information here, but anything past the 3.2v cutoff is pretty much useless information for most vapers. The mods usually cut off at that point anyway. The other point that I want to bring up is that most lithium based batteries live longer if consistently recharged before cutoff. A nice gentle decline in the flattest slope to 3.2v is what I want in a battery.

When the check battery function in my Provari shows less than 3.5v, I swap out and the battery goes on the charger (after a brief cool down period),

 

[Str8V8ping]

Interesting information here, but anything past the 3.2v cutoff is pretty much useless information for most vapers. The mods usually cut off at that point anyway. The other point that I want to bring up is that most lithium based batteries live longer if consistently recharged before cutoff. A nice gentle decline in the flattest slope to 3.2v is what I want in a battery.

When the check battery function in my Provari shows less than 3.5v, I swap out and the battery goes on the charger (after a brief cool down period),

The Provari's low voltage cutoff already cuts it off early to prolong the life of the battery . Anything over 3v is not going to hurt the batts life. The Provari cuts off at 3.3-3.4 so you could take it down til it shuts off. The buzz pro i always check the batts thru the cycle since it will take the batts down to 2.5v with a IMR.Your right though in that it does prolong the batterys life by not being fully drained. I have never really noticed it personally since i have AW IMR's that have been taken down to 2.5 all the time and they are still going strong 4-5 years later but it is recommended. .

 

[kwalka]

I know just enough too be safe and I look to you fellows for the final answers. So, those of us on this side of the graphical fence are going to need you guys on that side of the graphical fence to agree, please.
I got the Orbtronics because one of you fellows said so, and I'm running a Kick.

 

[buGG]

i understand comparing two batteries of the same size and chemistry, 18650 LiMnO2 vs 18650 LiMnO2, but the Panasonic is a hybrid (LiNiMnCoO2) cell with both the positive attributes and negative concerns of having a cobalt cathode among others. i suspect the AW IMR2000 is a similar cell, if not the same; but nonetheless its specs suggest it would be a better matchup to that panasonic if that is the "performance" you're after.

 

[forcedfuel50]

i understand comparing two batteries of the same size and chemistry, 18650 LiMnO2 vs 18650 LiMnO2, but the Panasonic is a hybrid (LiNiMnCoO2) cell with both the positive attributes and negative concerns of having a cobalt cathode among others. i suspect the AW IMR2000 is a similar cell, if not the same; but nonetheless its specs suggest it would be a better matchup to that panasonic if that is the "performance" you're after.

No problem, here's the Panasonic "IMR" 2250 against the Aw IMR 2000mAh.

When measuring mAh at the Evolv Kick voltage cut off of 3.3 Volts we get the following results:

Panasonic IMR 2250: 1817mAh
AW IMR 2000: 1690mah

Keep in mind these are at 2.5 amps, we may get different results when they are tested at 5amps which i will try to get done shortly:

 

[kwalka]

I have a serious question. I have these Japanese Hybrids because frankly I dont like or trust these batts the vendors have stamped with their names. I am assuming these batts are generics that anybody can order in bulk and have any name stamped on them. Are we supposed to trust these? Some of the vendors I have dealt with , ECF approved, have shown me that cost isnt necessarily #1 priority when it comes to certain items, so I/we are supposed to trust they aren't cutting corners here?

 

[Str8V8ping]

I have a serious question. I have these Japanese Hybrids because frankly I dont like or trust these batts the vendors have stamped with their names. I am assuming these batts are generics that anybody can order in bulk and have any name stamped on them. Are we supposed to trust these? Some of the vendors I have dealt with , ECF approved, have shown me that cost isnt necessarily #1 priority when it comes to certain items, so I/we are supposed to trust they aren't cutting corners here?

I have never seen a fake AW that looks real . The few fakes around usually are missing the button top or iv seen a few blue AW fakes with white around the button top instead of the legit black around the button top. AW and Pansonics are the two cells i trust most. I personally wont touch anything with fire in the name. Stick to purchasing them from the main vendors and you wont ever get a fake. These vendors are RTDvapor,Supertmanufacturing,Highdesertecigs,Provape. Panasonics stick to orbtronic or callieskustom. Orbtronic also sells real panasonic IMR's with buttontop now.

What AW batt have you seen with a vendors name stamped on it . I have not seen this before. Orbtronic does with the panasonics but i assure you they are real. They are a well known legit source

 

[kwalka]

I have never seen a fake AW that looks real . The few fakes around usually are missing the button top or iv seen a few blue AW fakes with white around the button top instead of the legit black around the button top. AW and Pansonics are the two cells i trust most. I personally wont touch anything with fire in the name. Stick to purchasing them from the main vendors and you wont ever get a fake. These vendors are RTDvapor,Supertmanufacturing,Highdesertecigs,Provape. Panasonics stick to orbtronic or callieskustom. Orbtronic also sells real panasonic IMR's with buttontop now.

What AW batt have you seen with a vendors name stamped on it . I have not seen this before. Orbtronic does with the panasonics but i assure you they are real. They are a well known legit source

My bad, there not AWs they are just one solid color with the company vendor name and IMR 18650 1800mAh 3.7v. The lettering is cheap mass produced printing. So there is no way to know what origin the batts are from, as there is no name. The Orbtronics you mentioned at the end are the ones I purchased.

 

[buGG]

both of these can be legitimate aw lifepo4 batteries. i have received both directly from him, and have been told that there are counterfeits that are undetectable from appearance alone. the flat tops and different colored wrappers, etc. are the ones you can spot, but many more you can't.

 

[kwalka]

both of these can be legitimate aw lifepo4 batteries. i have received both directly from him, and have been told that there are counterfeits that are undetectable from appearance alone. the flat tops and different colored wrappers, etc. are the ones you can spot, but many more you can't.
View attachment 99292 View attachment 99293

I have 3 of the left ones Exact same thing??????
EDIT___ They are 18350 not Lifpoe or what ever.

 

[Str8V8ping]

These are the orbtronic panasonics i was referring to . They are real .
New! Panasonic CGR18650CH With Top Button, 2250mAh IMR High Drain 18650 Battery Cell-Made in Japan

I was told by one vendor and well as a couple other people that the white ring lifepo4's are not real so i dont know. There was a thread about it on Nuvapor forums.The vendor i talked to said AW only uses black rings.

 

[kwalka]

Those are the ones I bought. My Aw's do have black rings, but I have 2 generics that are wrapped to look like AWs w/o the actual AW logo, have white rings. I acquired those in a trade so I think they are off to recycle