phillip morris/ruyan negotiations?
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ecigarettesnational sure did hit the big one with this marketing piece!
Their website traffic must be up 500%!
Their website traffic must be up 500%!
might not be a bad thing as PM ha the money for testing to prove or not that ecigs are not bad for you!
But it also means prices and taxes on them will go through the roof.You know PM will try to shut down all competitive e-cig manufacturers also.They will get their foot in the door and then corner the market as they have done with analogs.
True but it was bound to happen sooner or later as e-cigs got more popular.
Or they might just stop producing them to get us back on analogs. In any of these scenarios guess who loses: us.
Of course, Ruyan is not stupid.They exist to make money like any company.Combining with PM is a good way to that end and nobody can argue that fact.
Well PM is up to new strategy. They just bought out Swedish Match LTD South Africa (subject to competition commission approvals the sale should be final soon). Swedish match Sweden owns the General Snus brand and Cohiba brands. Swedish Match SA owns several mass market cheap roll your own tobacco brands including Boxer. I think that since 95% of the South African tobacco market is controlled by British American Tobacco Company this is a strategic move by PM to join forces with the Swedish Match Mothership and enter the smokeless products market. Someone mentioned somwhere I think it was a snus blog that PM was possibly exploring an exclusive Cohiba branded snus in anticipation of the Cuban embargo falling away soon. They would be exploring the e-cig. It fits in with their new strategy and if the e-cig doesn't work they will always have their snus.
- Apr 2, 2009
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There could be huge public health benefits worldwide if PMI buys Ruyan or its e-cigarette patents (as PMI has contracts with hundreds of thousands of retailers, and has could place the products alongside Marlboro cigarettes in most favorable store locations). PMI also has badly needed lobbying clout to oppose e-cigarette bans, unwarranted regulations and taxes.
The potential downside is that PMI likely would aggressively litigate against other e-cigarette manufacturers/vendors claiming patent infringement. Unlike Ruyan (which has settled patent infringement cases for relatively small amounts of money), PMI has a lot more lawyers and a lot more money.
It is important to note that PMI does not operate in the US, nor does Ruyan Group, as both operate abroad. Rather PM USA and Ruyan America operate in America.
I've also heard that there's an ongoing struggle between Ruyan Group and Ruyan America (which could be related to the reported negotiations with PMI).
Regarding taxation of e-cigarettes, any effort to impose excise taxes on e-cigarettes provides another opportunity to educate elected officials of the comparable health risks and benefits of cigarettes and e-cigarettes. Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating significantly lower excise taxes for smokeless tobacco products than for cigarettes (because similar to e-cigarettes, smokeless tobacco is far far less hazardous than cigarettes). PA is the only state that doesn't tax smokeless tobacco products.
We'd do the same if/when e-cigarettes are regulated as tobacco product, and if/when CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA would campaign for high taxes on e-cigarettes (as they've been advocating the same tax rate for smokeless tobacco as for cigarettes).
The potential downside is that PMI likely would aggressively litigate against other e-cigarette manufacturers/vendors claiming patent infringement. Unlike Ruyan (which has settled patent infringement cases for relatively small amounts of money), PMI has a lot more lawyers and a lot more money.
It is important to note that PMI does not operate in the US, nor does Ruyan Group, as both operate abroad. Rather PM USA and Ruyan America operate in America.
I've also heard that there's an ongoing struggle between Ruyan Group and Ruyan America (which could be related to the reported negotiations with PMI).
Regarding taxation of e-cigarettes, any effort to impose excise taxes on e-cigarettes provides another opportunity to educate elected officials of the comparable health risks and benefits of cigarettes and e-cigarettes. Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating significantly lower excise taxes for smokeless tobacco products than for cigarettes (because similar to e-cigarettes, smokeless tobacco is far far less hazardous than cigarettes). PA is the only state that doesn't tax smokeless tobacco products.
We'd do the same if/when e-cigarettes are regulated as tobacco product, and if/when CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA would campaign for high taxes on e-cigarettes (as they've been advocating the same tax rate for smokeless tobacco as for cigarettes).
Bill - So what is your take on the idea that PMI is lobbying the European Union to regulate the electronic cigarette as an NRT?
- Apr 2, 2009
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When I called Tiffany Ellis at (510) 230-3947 to talk to her about her article on PM negotiating with Ruyan, after ten rings I was transferred to the voice mail of a person named "Jim" whose voice mailbox was full.
And the two e-mail addresses listed for Tiffany Ellis ui@jquery.com and
gualtmarketing@gmail.com appear suspect, but I'll try e-mailing her.
And the two e-mail addresses listed for Tiffany Ellis ui@jquery.com and
gualtmarketing@gmail.com appear suspect, but I'll try e-mailing her.
If this negotiation goes through, what would be the impact on the e-cigarette industry?
Do you think this will unleash a series of buyouts/mergers by Phillip Morris? Will Phillip Morris come out with the "ultimate" e-cig? I wonder what their pricing is going to be...
Sorry if this should've been started as another thread.. the forum won't let me create one yet as I'm new.
Do you think this will unleash a series of buyouts/mergers by Phillip Morris? Will Phillip Morris come out with the "ultimate" e-cig? I wonder what their pricing is going to be...
Sorry if this should've been started as another thread.. the forum won't let me create one yet as I'm new.
But dont you think if you are pm, you would probably realize that tobacco cigarettes are on a decline, and they sooner or later will be a dead end product? The more restrictions on cigarettes the ever higher prices and taxes will probably just open up black markets for cigarettes. I dont know, If i was PM. I would be thinking of a new strategy for making money. They are already looking into snus products, that way their tobacco assets do not go to waste. With the tobacco they have, they could probably also manufacter eliquids. Plus they can learn from their past mistakes and have it open to the FDA and the public if E-cigarettes are genuinely much safer, than they might not have as much to hide.
Is PM getting involved automatically a bad thing?
Is PM getting involved automatically a bad thing?
ok. well... good?
idk what to think of this.
Just in case,....
We already have lowes and home depot as well as walmart flashlight battery and cart mods. All that is needed is the atty.
I suggest we work on the laser or windproof flameproof lighter mods to replace the atty.
idk what to think of this.
Just in case,....
We already have lowes and home depot as well as walmart flashlight battery and cart mods. All that is needed is the atty.
I suggest we work on the laser or windproof flameproof lighter mods to replace the atty.
PM should not be freaked out by ecigs. Not all tobacco smokers liked the ecig...so there will always be plenty of tobacco smokers.
I think the "heatbar" is not a clever idea, but may be good and a little less harmful for some ppl.
PM should also sell PV's in Malboro flavors. With this, they are selling the nicotine and a product that serves a s a substitute for the hand to mouth fixation.
This way they can sell other products along with tobacco products and save face in the public health's eye.
My ultimate concern is that PV's are NOT banned-ever and sold as equally as tobacco cigs/products.
I think the "heatbar" is not a clever idea, but may be good and a little less harmful for some ppl.
PM should also sell PV's in Malboro flavors. With this, they are selling the nicotine and a product that serves a s a substitute for the hand to mouth fixation.
This way they can sell other products along with tobacco products and save face in the public health's eye.
My ultimate concern is that PV's are NOT banned-ever and sold as equally as tobacco cigs/products.
The negotiations with Ruyan fell through. I believe PM may be interested in the ecig technology simly due to their previous failures to produce a smokeless cigarette. They even developed something similar to a box mod at one time but neither the time nor design was right.
By buying a known ecig company they bypass all the patent infringement stuff and can just pump em out with the same design as well as getting rid of what they probably see as the biggest competitor in the niche. The fact that Ruyan was testesd in NZ is even more of a leg up.
PM is not stupid and in the end its about money. Realizing that the ecig community is growing it would behoove them to get a foot in the door. I believe they saw it as a backdoor fad for geeks and freaks when it first started.
PM taking it mainstream would not be too bad an idea, it would eliminate the fear of 'that stuff out of China'. Why I am not sure since it was proven that they intentionally dosed analogs to maximize the addictive propoerties.
By buying a known ecig company they bypass all the patent infringement stuff and can just pump em out with the same design as well as getting rid of what they probably see as the biggest competitor in the niche. The fact that Ruyan was testesd in NZ is even more of a leg up.
PM is not stupid and in the end its about money. Realizing that the ecig community is growing it would behoove them to get a foot in the door. I believe they saw it as a backdoor fad for geeks and freaks when it first started.
PM taking it mainstream would not be too bad an idea, it would eliminate the fear of 'that stuff out of China'. Why I am not sure since it was proven that they intentionally dosed analogs to maximize the addictive propoerties.
This is the 3rd time I've seen this story recycled it is junk, BS, not true. Please people recognize a pump and dump when u see it. Ruyan has nothing, in fact I read in Miller Divetsified's form 8-k filing thatbig tobacco has filed an e-cig type patent of their own, which means that Ruyan has nothing that is marketable in terms of intellectual property coupled with no marketshare in the US or anywhere.
This is the source of my info: Quamnet.com stock news
Quamnet is now a leading provider of Hong Kong market data and commentary to China's major financial websites and portals, including QQ.com, Sina.com.cn, Hexun and i-Feng
Do you believe that this source is unreliable?
As far as their ecig patent, I believe that was included in my original post. They may be pulling the old one out of mothballs or maybe the patent you are looking at is that one.
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I'm not clear on which part of this you say isn't true:
- PM and Ruyan negotiating at all? or
- Negotiations falling through?
Also-- Ruyan has no U.S. marketshare? A Ruyan product has never crossed the borders into the U.S.? How is that?
I don't think there is any recognized U.S. patent for the e-cig yet, so Ruyan is not a special case here. They've simply filed patent in China along with other Chinese companies.
Ruyan's market presence is negligible. They are not a widely sold brand. They have nominal marketshare, to the point that there market presence is irrelevant.
In the US the top wire services (eg. Pr newswire and Marketwire) won't let companies issue press releases through their services with other companies names and more specifically stock symbols, If those companies haven't given written permission for inclusion in the release. I highly doubt that the disseminating site has the same requirements. (however please note that small wire services, that are not recognized by the SEC as public dissemination sources, also may not follow these practices.)
In short I believe that the story is bunk.
In the US the top wire services (eg. Pr newswire and Marketwire) won't let companies issue press releases through their services with other companies names and more specifically stock symbols, If those companies haven't given written permission for inclusion in the release. I highly doubt that the disseminating site has the same requirements. (however please note that small wire services, that are not recognized by the SEC as public dissemination sources, also may not follow these practices.)
In short I believe that the story is bunk.
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