phillip morris/ruyan negotiations?

[DaBrat]

Ruyan's market presence is negligible. They are not a widely sold brand. They have nominal marketshare, to the point that there market presence is irrelevant.

In the US the top wire services (eg. Pr newswire and Marketwire) won't let companies issue press releases through their services with other companies names and more specifically stock symbols, If those companies haven't given written permission for inclusion in the release. I highly doubt that the disseminating site has the same requirements. (however please note that small wire services, that are not recognized by the SEC as public dissemination sources, also may not follow these practices.)

In short I believe that the story is bunk.

OK so what does the SEC have to do with a Chinese company? I understand your point of view but those points seem to be valid only for America and American companies. We are discussing companies in other countries or do you believe tht if it is not in American news, its not news?

This was not a press release just a news story in a foreign market. Maybe not enough of a story to garner international attention (We had too much celebrity gossip for that). However you cannot disregard market dispatches in your consideration of foreign companies.

Ruyan was looking for capital PM has capital. PM would do well to know its enemy. Now I cannot seem to remember where I found the story that quoted Ruyan's president as basically saying that they were unsatisfied with what PM bought to the table but trust me, those negotiations have ended... or trust me not.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Please note that the story about PMI negotiation with Ruyan Group at Quamnet.com stock news is from July, 2009.

Ruyan America has had a licensing agreement with Ruyan Group to market (and probably to exclusively market) Ruyan products in the US, but Ruyan America is no longer marketing e-cigarettes in the US, and has removed all Ruyan e-cigarette products that contain nicotine from their website at: Welcome to Ruyan America - Home of the Ruyan E-Cigarette They now market a product that looks like an e-cigarette (and may function like an e-cigarette), but that contains no nicotine, and is a dietary supplement (which are not regulated by the FDA).

I'm not very familiar with Ruyan Group (other than that they invented the e-cigarette and have filed patents for the product(s) in various countries), and have no information about Ruyan Group sales or approximate e-cigarette market shares in different countries.

Perhaps PMI (which is affilated with, but no longer the same corporation as Philip Morris USA) is still negotiating with Ruyan Group to buy (or license) their e-cigarette patent(s) in some/many/all countries. And perhaps they are not.

But I think the future of tobacco harm reduction, e-cigarettes and NRT products (gums, lozenges, patches, etc.) will benefit greatly if/when the world's largest tobacco companies (e.g. PM, BAT, Japan Tobacco, Imperial) and America's largest tobacco companies (PM, Reynolds, Lorillard) begin to market e-cigarettes and NRT products.

Reynolds' recent acquisition of Niconovum is likely to encourage other tobacco companies to get into the NRT business.

Once the major tobacco companies are marketing the full line of tobacco/nicotine products (e.g. cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, NRT and e-cigarettes), the playing field will be leveled and tobacco harm reduction will become the status quo.

 

[ChipCurtis]

I checked out Ruyan America's site.... check out these excerpts about their "new" product:

The RAPP E-Mystick is designed for smokers who want the look, feel and experience of a cigarette. It contains the active ingredient lobelia, also known as "Indian Tobacco", an herbal remedy/dietary supplement; well known and often described as a respiratory tonic.

It is so new and unlike anything else in the market that it is covered by a separate, recently submitted patent that distinguishes and differentiates the RAPP from what are often referred to as E-cigarettes. The construction and components of the E-Mystick do not resemble any product currently offered in the US.

The product contains none of the chemicals found in recent FDA tests of E-cigarettes, namely nitrosamines and diethylene glycol.

Interesting stuff. This announcement goes all the way back to Aug 09.

Looks to me like Ruyan haven't really created a new product, but simply re-configured their semantics in order to avoid being labelled either as a tobacco product or a pharmaceutical device. I don't even know what lobelia is. An herb that tastes like Indian Tobacco but isn't tobacco?

I am wondering just how different this device is... "components do not resemble any other product" seems a pretty bold assertion if they are still using the battery/atty combination.

Here's another quote from the site:

... a new product, the Ruyan RAPP E-Mystick, a patent applied for Respiratory Amplifier Personal and Portable

Wow. I love that wording.

So, anybody been vaping on their Respiratory Amplifier today?

 

[SteveMcCleen]

Yeah! I've been utilizing my Respiratory Amplifier on a bihourly basis!

 

[vaprfan]

Hi Lacey ;-)

 

[Renro]

might not be a bad thing as PM ha the money for testing to prove or not that ecigs are not bad for you!

Would anyone in their right mind take any testing done by PM in relation to a tobacco product serious?
"Yes Citizen X. Our testing is top of the line and after extensive testing we've found that the use of tobacco in VP's are not only safe, but that they reverse the aging process."

One thing I know about BT is that they the most successful sob's in this country. They had decades of physicians recommending their tobacco products, they've managed to stay on the market after irrefutable proof of their toxicity and carcinogenic properties and recently they were even able to up their sales -IN the USA. go figure. I have no doubt that they've had a plan in place for years, that it is multi-pronged, that it will prove unquestionably profitable, that every government agency will back them and that we as consumers will pay for it all.

I can say one thing, I would rather pay a premium for a Chinese product not partnered with BT than to pay another red cent to any USA Big Tobacco company. God only knows what delightful "additives" they already have lined up for us. No matter what they say. No matter what they promise. No matter what they deliver. They would kill their own mother for a profit and can't be trusted. I wish I knew more about social engineering and advertising and psychology and pharmaceuticals...my god, the BT has spent decades and billions of dollars honing their skill. I'm hoping against hope that some cottage industry survives.

 

[Renro]

Don't forget that the TTBG (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and firearms) has their finger in the pie too. This government agency, btw is under the jurisdiction of the U.S Department of the Treasury. You can bet that they are going to get their share when all is said and done. One good thing that i did find on this site was a regularly updated newsletter which is available online, called simply enough, Tobacco Newsletter

 

[Vocalek]

Would anyone in their right mind take any testing done by PM in relation to a tobacco product serious?

Keep in mind that the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act ("Tobacco Act") passed in 2009 calls for the FDA to create a Tobacco Center and set scientific standards for determining which products are reduce the risks.

The effort to create standards is being led by the National Academy of Science, and there is a meeting next week on "Scientific Standards for Studies on Reduced Risk Tobacco Products."

Bill Godshall and I have signed up to speak for 5 minutes during the Public Comments.

Once the standards are set, it will be up to tobacco companies to perform testing to meet them. So yes, they will have to take the tobacco companies test results under consideration. The government is, of course, welcome to replicate the testing.

Points that I plan to make in my testimony is that

1. All parties, including government employees, are required to tell the truth about the findings.
2. The standard cannot be zero harm; the standard must be a measure how how much the risk of smoking-related disease is likely to be reduced by switching to the alternative
3. Time is of the essence. A smoker who continues smoking for just 30 more days is at greater risk than a smoker who switches to any smokeless product on the market today and continues using that product for the rest of his/her life. Therefore, the requirement must not be that products need to go through years of clinical trials. It would be unethical to set up trials in which some of the participants are required to continue smoking.
4. We should make use of existing evidence. Much research has been conducted on Swedish snus. Those products should be labeled "reduced risk" immediately.

 

[Petrodus]

Bill Godshall and I have signed up to speak for 5 minutes
during the Public Comments...Points that I plan to make in my testimony is that

Thanks for the heads-up and looking forward to hearing from you'all after the meeting

Are you planning a 10 second psychological pause and stare at everyone
after suggesting "All parties, including government employees, are required
to tell the truth about the findings" ???

 

[rothenbj]

"4. We should make use of existing evidence. Much research has been conducted on Swedish snus. Those products should be labeled "reduced risk" immediately."

Can we have an AMEN, sister!