PHOENX Raven Modding

[WallyO]

All righty then. My second attempt with the Raven looks hopeful. The first was like everyone else. Good, dry, good, dry. Just took one of my carto's apart and raised the metal shield on top of the coil assembly approx 1/32". When apart the ends of the wicks looked black. Metal dust of some machining residue powder? Who knows. Anyway rinsed everything off well in hot water. Dry burned. Reassembled, filled with GV Butterscotch and have vaped myself into a nicotene stupor ... again. Dang I hate testing stuff. I honestly can no longer go on tonight. But not one dry hit after at least 30 tokes. At first I was not planning on raising the hood as much as I did but then figured what the hell. For reference my original measurement from the top of the carto to the lip of that cap in the slot was 1.375". I moved it up to 1.340". That cap serves the same purpose as the posts in the other models. The center of it goes into the coil / wick cup and regulates how much fluid the wick is exposed to. Right now it is almost flush with the top of the cup. In it maybe .010" if any.
Yes these still do rely on a slight vacuum in the tank to keep the juice from flooding through. If you don't believe that just raise the top cap after it's filled.
It twisted and pulled apart without too much difficuly. One pair of pliers kinda holding in the slots and the other on the 510 threads. (they are not very pretty anymore) Probably fair a lot better if you cut up an aluminum can and used a piece in between the pliers and where you are holding. Actually copper shim would be best but that's not readily available for most.
I thought I had some lower nic juice to vape but if I do I can't find it.
Just wanted to throw out there that there is a bit of hope. Good vapor so far but the flavor does not seem as good as the XL's. Maybe that'll change tomorrow with a bit more breaking in. We'll see what kind of leakage, if any it gets overnight. So far it's looking OK. Actually a bit better than OK.
Anyway I'll post again tomorrow with an update, good or bad. I realize most folks aren't going to want to play with this and really you shouldn't have too, but if you want to tinker there is a glimmer of light down that tunnel.
OMG just took another toke and still good. No gurgle, no dryness.

This adjustment I did last night is still working and working very well. Only a drop of leakage out the base overnight and I am attributing that to massive condensation from my chain vaping last night. Took my morning drag with squinced eyes expecting the worst, but no surprise yet. Good vapor and OK flavor but I am getting Butterscotch OD. Love that flavor but I can see, not as an all dayer. The flavor is not as intense to me as the original design though. I think that is because instead of getting a concentrated flavor through the little center tube, now you are drawing through a very short restrictor and then it's expanding into a larger chamber before getting to the drip tip. I am sure that is also creating a ton of condensation which eventually gets back down to the coil which is probably also attributing to the flavor difference because you are thinning down the future hits.
That thin restrictor plate is their idea of replacing the tube and IF it would work as well as the long center tube would have been a huge shortcut for them. No tube, no silicone cap times thousands and thousands.
I will take a couple more apart today and try and post a picture so you can better understand what I am describing i f I can squeeze it in. And this one I'll fill with Pyramid Fusion and maybe another with BB just to see how it does with relatively a heavy juice.

Here is the dimension I was referring to. Man these are a pain to get apart without any damage to the tube but it can be done.

Here is the coil assembly and the restrictor cup they are using instead of the tube. When I first looked yeterday I thought it was a thin sheet metal type piece. You can see it is much larger than I assumed. Wouldn't you know it. The coil cup is .005 smaller in diameter than the other Phoenix's so the XL tube can not be put in properly. If they would have kept it the same size this would have beed a piece of cake to convert.

Here is a pic with an easy out I had that fits perfectly in the carto tube so I can squeeze on it without smashing it. I insert the tool, wrap in rubber and hold it in a vise. Once held I grab the 510 thread with pliers(using a 510 extender on the outside to protect the threads) and kinda twist and pull.

Basically by changing the dimension shown you are adding .030 to the wick area allowing a better flow. The restrictor is in there plenty tight. You will need to find a suitable size object and tap with a hammer to get it where it works.
I tried one going even bigger but that floods. The original I did is still going good. I have not had one dry hit. No major issue at the moment.

If you feel like playing this seems to work but it's definately a step we should not have to do and no one expects us to do. But I always wake a sleeping dog. Even though it does work it is in no way better than the XL's as far as vapor and flavor.

 

[WallyO]

Holy cow! Just for giggles I took one of the soft silicone drip tips that come with the XL's and shoved the small end of an XL center tube in it and stuck that in my adjusted Raven. What a difference. This is what they should be like. Drawing through that tube has doubled the vapor and flavor is much better. You'll feel when it's in right. That restricter cone is tapered so it will find it's spot down there. Just make sure that some pressure is exerted by the silicone drip tip when you put the whole thing in.
Betterlife has to modify these to go back to that center post.

edited to add ...WOW!

edited to add another...WOW!

 

[SolemnPenguin]

Holy cow! Just for giggles I took one of the soft silicone drip tips that come with the XL's and shoved the small end of an XL center tube in it and stuck that in my adjusted Raven. What a difference. This is what they should be like. Drawing through that tube has doubled the vapor and flavor is much better. You'll feel when it's in right. That restricter cone is tapered so it will find it's spot down there. Just make sure that some pressure is exerted by the silicone drip tip when you put the whole thing in.
Betterlife has to modify these to go back to that center post.

edited to add ...WOW!

edited to add another...WOW!

Awesome, I'm going to try your process out as soon as I have time. I hope that will be before Monday!

 

[Njt07]

Just to let you guys know, these things, once taken apart are very easy to rewick and coil.

As an update, using a fluxo seal smooth side down at the bottom, BC tube and rubber drip tip, mine is still going very well. You either have to take hard drags every now and then or use unpowered drags.

I attempted to rebuild one, but put too much wick so it doesnt feed well, gonna have to take it apart again...

 

[rdsok]

Using another carto, I combined what I did earlier, gently pushing up the coil from the bottom using a wire through the 510 connector... with what BonnyC reported to pull a strand of wick out... It is vaping wonderfully though I still have to blow in it about every 10 vapes.

So this is working without taking apart the carto... still if we could take them apart easier, it would make it a more reliable "fix"... Of course, better QC at the factory would take care of this part...

If what WallyO is reporting makes it even better... well, I can't imagine it... lol

 

[BonnyC]

I was able to duplicate what I did earlier. Well, sorta, but it had the same effect. I tried to coax the wick to stick out of the holes, but it wasn't working with me. I ended up pulling some out in small pieces. This one is wicking almost as well as the other and I'm not getting any dry hits at all. I see little bubbles coming up from the holes. I think it could stand to lose more wick. Rd, maybe you should try clearing a little more out. I dunno, though. The holes on the first one were pretty clear so it was easier to work with. This one wasn't nearly as opened up. I really should have went in from the top, but I can't find my needle nose tweezers.

My hubby got the first carto I tweaked just because I had to get him the heck away from the phoenix xls he's gone through about 1ml of it and it's all flavor, no dry hits and no burnt taste.

 

[Njt07]

Gave up for today... I rewicked and recoiled mine with cotton and kanthol. 2 ohms, but getting flooding now and really hot, low vapor with little taste. Without looking i imagine i have some hot spots, will let it sit and hope the wick expands.

Broke out a stallion, happy now!

 

[div]

I got my order in, and it's hollow inside. I want to try this fix, but I lost my drip tip from the XL (it's somewhere in the shed)...what else can I use? I am not mechanical by any means.

Holy cow! Just for giggles I took one of the soft silicone drip tips that come with the XL's and shoved the small end of an XL center tube in it and stuck that in my adjusted Raven. What a difference. This is what they should be like. Drawing through that tube has doubled the vapor and flavor is much better. You'll feel when it's in right. That restricter cone is tapered so it will find it's spot down there. Just make sure that some pressure is exerted by the silicone drip tip when you put the whole thing in.
Betterlife has to modify these to go back to that center post.

edited to add ...WOW!

edited to add another...WOW!

 

[vikeme28]

I didn't have the pleasure of ordering these, enjoying my set too much, but I was wondering with the wick holes not lining up if you could run a piece of extra wick through the hole to sit on top of the coil to help pull the juice in? Anyone tried that? At least you shouldn't have to dismantle it.

 

[WallyO]

I got my order in, and it's hollow inside. I want to try this fix, but I lost my drip tip from the XL (it's somewhere in the shed)...what else can I use? I am not mechanical by any means.

Those soft tips are the only ones that will work. The center tube actually end up above the carto tube so it has to be something that will stretch over it.
I never tried just the tube on the originals and it may improve them a bit. But after taking a half dozen of these apart I feel it is wise to at least remove the coil assembly just to wash it out well. Even if you decide not to move the restrictor cup. A few of them looked pretty, shall I say, unappealling. All soaked with that yuk primer and a couple wicks actually had a black tinge to them which looked to me like fine metal dust from somewhere in the assembly process.
Whatever Betterlife does down the road they really need to make these more user friendly and accomodate simple disassembly for cleaning.

 

[WallyO]

I didn't have the pleasure of ordering these, enjoying my set too much, but I was wondering with the wick holes not lining up if you could run a piece of extra wick through the hole to sit on top of the coil to help pull the juice in? Anyone tried that? At least you shouldn't have to dismantle it.

Not possible without removing the coil cup. Everything is sandwiched together and about the only thing possible without disassembly would be to remove a couple strands of wick like BonnyC did. I believe her's is still working well and if it continues to, it is a much easier mod than my route. I destroyed two carto's before I came up with an acceptable break down process. So anyone wanting to try my method be warned you may damage your carto. Luckily ( or unlucky, depending how you view this) I bought enough to allow for sacrifice.

 

[BonnyC]

I didn't have the pleasure of ordering these, enjoying my set too much, but I was wondering with the wick holes not lining up if you could run a piece of extra wick through the hole to sit on top of the coil to help pull the juice in? Anyone tried that? At least you shouldn't have to dismantle it.

You know, I was wondering about that, too. After fiddling around with the wick holes trying to thin out the wicks, I found that the hole isn't anything remotely like a straight line. I can't fathom how anything could get across from one side to the other to actually thread the wick through.

That said, just placing it on the coil from the inside of the tank might work if you push the ends downward. I'm not sure. It's certainly worth a try and I might actually give it a go later. Thinning the wicks by either pulling a full strand out if you can or grabbing bits and pieces seems to have completely repaired these. 3 tanks and 0 ( I mean ZERO) dry hits, even with 50/50 juice. I think you have to thin them quite a bit. Also worth noting, I'm vaping them totally dry like the Phoenix XL.

Edited to add: While I'm still not getting dry hits, the 50/50 white chocolate flavor doesn't seem to work well. Vapor and flavor are reduced. I'm pretty confident that it's the juice because it went from amber to black like it does in my other Phoenixes. Blowing into it like we were doing before this helps. I'll update again to let y'all know if it really was the juice.

 

[yiddleboge6]

I have soaked the cartos in vodka, and done dry burns. 2 out of 4 have the coils squished tightly together and jammed down deep. Don't have a wire or paperclip to try and push them up and being situated in the bottom of that tube makes it impossible for me to try and spread the coils out so they aren't touching. Even if I had the tools to get the tube off, my hands aren't strong enough for that anymore.
took the post from one of my xl phoenix and the soft drip tip and got that into the one I have in a tank. Bubbles are coming up and it vapes, but it's so acrid it's making my throat sore and irritating my tongue.!!! I suppose it might improve on the second fill, but I'm using the small one and it's so irritating I don't think I can vape it empty.

 

[WallyO]

That terrible taste is from the primer or whatever they use. These things are loaded with it. And even an alcohol wash would probably have to be done a couple times because everything is so sandwiched together. Like I mentioned somewhere earlier a couple of my wicks even had a blackish tinge to them.
I forgot who liked the water pic for cleaning but using that through the top of the cart with hot water should eventually flush all that crap out. But it also might blow apart the wicking. You would almost have to do it upside down since there is only minisule draining out the bottom. Maybe just a gentle hot water drip for a while through the top would help but either way it's going to take a long time to dry out without taking it apart.

 

[Njt07]

I didn't have the pleasure of ordering these, enjoying my set too much, but I was wondering with the wick holes not lining up if you could run a piece of extra wick through the hole to sit on top of the coil to help pull the juice in? Anyone tried that? At least you shouldn't have to dismantle it.

I did this when i rewicked and recoiled it the first time. The top metal ring, the part that covers the top half of the vertical slot, sandwiches the wick down to the bottom of the slot. I was getting dry hits cause it wasnt allowing anything in through the hole. I'm gonna try again today and gonna try not pushing the metal ring all the way down.

The low vapor and hotness is def coming from hot spots and flooding from when i removed the wick laying over the coils. Gonna try rewicking and recoiling again, but this time with a much smaller coil size.

BTW you can try to adjust the metal ring without taking the whole thing apart by using a flat head screw driver in the slot, it will prlly screw up the wick, but the wick and coikls are pretty messed up already, they are worse than the worst phoenix BC ive ever used.

Im also thinking about not using the metal ring at all and throwing a rubber seal on top instead, maybe a fluxo or phoenix top coil seal flipped upside down.

 

[Njt07]

I have soaked the cartos in vodka, and done dry burns. 2 out of 4 have the coils squished tightly together and jammed down deep. Don't have a wire or paperclip to try and push them up and being situated in the bottom of that tube makes it impossible for me to try and spread the coils out so they aren't touching. Even if I had the tools to get the tube off, my hands aren't strong enough for that anymore.
took the post from one of my xl phoenix and the soft drip tip and got that into the one I have in a tank. Bubbles are coming up and it vapes, but it's so acrid it's making my throat sore and irritating my tongue.!!! I suppose it might improve on the second fill, but I'm using the small one and it's so irritating I don't think I can vape it empty.

If all youre trying to do is push the coil up, you can remove the center post and rubber gasket, and twist some wire to the pos and neg leads so you can adjust it that way with out taking it apart. The ceramic cup didnt have any glue and the coil moved fairly freely up and down.

 

[rdsok]

Another thought on cleaning the primer out... an ultrasonic cleaner. It should be gentler on the wicks than the water pic but provide a bit of agitation to help dissolve out the primer.

@BonnyC...

My initial report of vaping around 10 hits before needing to blow back into it... was done while chain vaping and as I started vaping normally later, I found I needed to blow into it much less and almost none late last night. This morning I have yet to need to repeat that... at least not yet. I had thought about pulling a bit more wick but it was getting slightly gurgly ( if that is a word ) already and didn't want to remove another full thread of wick yet.

I'm currently soaking my first carto that I just raised the coil with and after it dries out later, I'll pull some of it's wick out if I can and put it into the larger 6ml tank. If I can't get the wick on that one, I've got 6 more carto's that are still sealed to play with.

I'm also intrigued with the method that WallyO is using but I only got one small and one large tank to test with and I think seeing how these end up working for a while with them currently only slightly modded for a while is in order first...

 

[BonnyC]

Re-posting this here, it's also on the other raven thread.

Rdsok: My first one gurgled a little at first, but no flooding. Then it just sorta stopped. I'm not sure why, perhaps the wicks needed to fan themselves back out to block more of the hole. Who knows, can't hardly see anything inside the dang barrel. I'm glad to hear that it's working better for you, though!

I've tried shoving everything under the sun down the barrel to tighten the air flow in order to draw more juice in and nothing worked. Maybe it made it a bit better, but this is the only thing that's completely eliminated the dry hits throughout several fills.

Update on my thinned wicks: Still perfect. I've done this on two of them and they're both vaping like champs. Several tanks and not a single dry hit at all.

I'm not sure how thinned they are, but I STRONGLY encourage any of you who have given up on them to try this. Even if you're not familiar with any modding, this is super simple.

Any thin, pointed object would probably work. I used my tweezers. They were slanted tweezers, but my pointed ones worked great too. I bought these for $1.75 at the Dollar General, came with one of each. Very cheap!

Stick the pointed end in the wick slot at an angle so it's pointed downward. Scrape it up the side and out of the hole. I put it in at different angles, too, trying to snag anything around the opening. Eventually, it's probably gonna catch a piece of wick or two. Heck, you might be lucky and one of yours has the wicks right at the hole. The first one I did this to was like that and I could actually grasp the wick and pull a full strand (that stretched from one hole to the other) out of the coil and that was all it needed. The other one wasn't so kind and I wound up pulling wick out in tiny pieces. The end result was the same.

The second one, which I'm using now, is vaping like a champ and the holes aren't even all the way open!

If you're concerned about pulling too much wick out, just err on the side of caution and thin it gradually until you get the desired vapor, flavor and consistency. Just be aware that, if the wick isn't right at the hole, it takes a bit of time to get enough wick out. If you can't get hold of any at all, you might want to try putting whatever thin object you chose to use down the barrel and kind of gently coax the wick on each side towards its adjacent hole.

Afterwards, I put a Dentek brush (dental toothpick thing with a tiny brush at the end, easy to find at drug stores and I've seen them at the Dollar General, cheap) down the barrel and just lightly brushed it around the coil and wick so I could grab any loose strands. Not sure if this was even required, but I did it for good measure. I didn't bother doing this with the one that was easy to remove a full strand from.

If you're hesitant to do this because you're worried about ruining it, you don't really have much to lose. Especially if you're someone that's given up on it totally. You'll either be no worse off than you were before or you'll have another nice vaping unit

 

[WallyO]

I'm also intrigued with the method that WallyO is using but I only got one small and one large tank to test with and I think seeing how these end up working for a while with them currently only slightly modded for a while is in order first...

Mine are still working good Rdosk. I did destroy 2 carto's before I got better at getting them apart. But I had 16 carto's to play with. (yeah I thought this was gonna be the tank to beat all tanks...surprise!). If all you have is two I would recommend doing what Bonnie C is doing. Opening up the wick area is the main goal. With my method I am opening them up 1/32" on the top by raising the restrictor cone and also since I have a gap between the coil head and the outside of the restricter cone I constantly have a ring of liquid above the wicks too. So basically these are feeding from the end of the wick as well as a small portion above them.
I re-did one totally with a new wick and coil and that's working as well but my new coil is all resistance wire. The originals have finely welded NR wire on them so I don't know if I'll end up with a burning seal down the road.

 

[IrishTexan]

okay...I have just been sitting here, looking at my pretty, first ever tanks, and reading all your fixes. I decided to try Bonnie's. I took the top cap from a xl, shoved it all the way down flat side up. Then I spent a LONG time picking at the wick hole till I got ahold of one of the strands and removed it. filled it up, set it at 4.0. I wouldn't say it blows, but it is working. Hoping it breaks in. No dry hits, no burning...yet. And I am using my pretty blue tank!

p.s. I am using vg, unthinned!