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Pictures of serious battery failure - IMR 18650

Discussion in 'New Members Information' started by oldsoldier, May 22, 2011.

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  1. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    C rating is an instantaneous current related to the mAh capacity of the battery. In your case your battery is rated at 750 mAh (750 milli Amp hours). If you draw a current of 750 milliamps your battery should last 1 hour. C would be 750 mA.

    When you say a 2.4 amp atty I assume you mean a 2.4 ohm atty.
    A Li-Ion battery is fully charged at 4.2 V.
    4.2V through a 2.4 ohm load will result in a 1.75 Amp current.

    So... If your battery is rated for a maximum discharge rate of 2C or more you'll be right at (or just under it's rated capability).
    2 * 0.750 Amps = 1.5 Amps

    Now, in our application we almost always overdrive our batteries. It's not quite as bad as it seems since our usage is not generally a constant draw and maximum discharge rate is given for a continuous current/load on the battry. But... if the button gets stuck down for some time, like sitting on it, then you are at risk. If you had a 750mAh battery rated for a maximum discharge rate of 4C then the current resulting from your 2.4 ohm atty would be well within it's capabilities. It would be like leaving your flashlight on. You would then only have to worry about that red hot and likely melted atty :)
     
  2. KyanaBelle

    KyanaBelle Senior Member

    May 27, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    That was confusing to me, too. Just to make sure I got it right, I copied and pasted the description directly from their website and they do, in fact, call them "Li-Ion" as well as "LiFePO4". So, I looked it up and Wikipedia, for what it's worth, calls them a type of lithium-ion battery that uses lithium ferrous phosphate.

    My dad's a chemist, and I could ask him about this instead of pestering you all. But ... I kid you not, he'll insist on telling me how they are manufactured, starting with mining the iron, before I ever get the information I really need out of him! :facepalm: He caused me to miss the first five years of the 'net because he started on binary when I asked him how to turn his #@%$ computer on so I could type up a resume. True story...
     
  3. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    If you're concerned, you really should learn about this...

    Definitions: Battery Definitions – Battery University

    And you should start here with the basics.

    Battery information from Battery University

    Start with Part One and use the sidebar to jump around to the topics of interest for you. I guarantee if you spend an hour there you will know more than 90% of the people here where you would spend many hours gleaning the same information mixed in with a lot of mis and dis information.
     
  4. KyanaBelle

    KyanaBelle Senior Member

    May 27, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    This is the data they provide for the batteries:

    Working Voltage:3.2V and Peak Voltage: 3.6V
    Charging cut-off voltage: 3.6V
    Discharge cut-off voltage: 2.2V

    Please never overdischarge battery below 2.2V/cell
    Charge the this battery with LiFePO4 RCR123A smart charger.

    Capacity: 750 mAh
    Maximum discharging rate:< 550 mA
    Maximum charge current: <550 mA

    Yes, I meant ohms. Ohms, amps, volts, watts - it could as easily be Babylonian to me. I hated physics. Correction - I hated both physics and chemistry. Biology was my strong suit. LOL - I just don't want to explode or ignite and I really had my heart set on that mod.
     
  5. KyanaBelle

    KyanaBelle Senior Member

    May 27, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    If I must! Got to be better than asking my Dad! :laugh:
     
  6. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    Sigh... Ok, let's walk through this and then I'll bust your chops at the end.

    Peak Voltage is what you should expect with the battery fully charged just off the charger. We will use this value as the worst case for calculations.

    Ok... here is a small downside. There are no protection circuits on these batteries. That means there is no cut off for under charging your battery either. During use you will notice vapor probably drops off to almost nothing around 3V or above so you'll recharge it long before it gets this low. But batteries have a self discharge rate. Leave them on the shelf long enough and they will very slowly discharge themselves. If this battery goes below 2.2V it's probably ruined and it's likely it won't take a charge again. Unlikely you would leave them that long but you might and then there is that problem with the button getting stuck or something like that.

    Yes, you will need the charger specifically for these batteries. It will not work for other kinds (and it's probably just for this size as well) and other kind of chargers will not work for these batteries. charge rate, and cutoff, and stuff.

    Now this is a real problem. Remember we figured 1.75 Amps (1750 mA) with 4.2V through your 2.4 ohm atty?
    Well, 3.6V through your 2.4 ohm atty is 1.5 Amps. That's 3 times the max discharging rate for these batteries. No, everybody doesn't ruin these batteries or have them fail (remember the pulsed application) but you are way overdriving them. At the very least you will get much shortened overall life out of these before they need replaced. No, I have no idea why any vendor would sell these on an e-cig site... (yes, I know you were looking on the Tenergy site but they are resold by one or more of our vendors). They do have the same chemistry (or maybe some other "safe" chemistry) batteries rated at 4C or more but I'm not sure they come in the right size for your mod. I would recommend quality, protected Li-Ion batteries.

    Here is a handy dandy calculator for Ohm's law:

    http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php

    Surely you can find other batteries for that mod. What are you vaping now? If it's some regular kit type of thing do you know the voltage you're running through your 2.4 ohm battery now? If it's giving you the vape that you prefer then you're going to want to stick with the same voltage. If you can't do that then get a decent battery and use different (ohm) attys to get the desired result.

    Oh yea, I forgot the busting your chops part :)

    DON'T BE LAZY! You could put your eye out with that thing. haha.
    Seriously though, people are concerned about safety but they don't want to put any effort into educating themselves. There just isn't any one answer and there is no such thing as completely safe. Especially with rechargeable batteries.
     
  7. KyanaBelle

    KyanaBelle Senior Member

    May 27, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    LOL - I did go to your battery college link! It started with "When were batteries discovered" - it must be an engineer thang! :laugh: I'll try to do some more research and look for some Li-Ion protected batteries. I am not vaping yet. I've been researching online for about 8 hours a day for the past week - seriously. And I will continue researching all the options right up until the first week of June when I purchase my own set. I'm actually like that. I put in a year of research before I decided on a breed of parrot! I even studied an independent lab report on the various chemicals detected in juice samples and what their health risk ratings were. (Retired nurse - that didn't bore me to tears) Researching circuitry and batteries? That is truly painful. :blush:

    Right from the git-go, I was questioning why on earth they didn't make these things where you could replace the battery instead of buying a whole new unit when the battery died. It just seemed really stupid to me. The past 2 days I figured out that you could do that on the mods. I won't be the hobbyist type continually looking to modify my set up. I just want something that makes sense and is relatively simple.

    Thank you again for your help, Quick1! I do really appreciate it.
     
  8. MAlzado

    MAlzado Moved On ECF Veteran

    May 30, 2011
    USA
    These are the ones that are supposed to be the safest batterys? Right?
     
  9. nomocigz

    nomocigz Full Member

    May 23, 2011
    Ft Worth Tx
  10. liqwidsky

    liqwidsky Full Member

    There is no such thing as a "safe chemistry" lithium battery, only some that are "safer" than others!
     
  11. haos.

    haos. Full Member

    Feb 1, 2011
    Singapore
    Hopefully me eGo does not end up like that.
     
  12. Merc1138

    Merc1138 Full Member

    Jul 19, 2009
    California
    It's kind of a rarity. Although I did have my roommate put a 1.5v AA rechargable into my 3.7v charger and when I noticed it, my kitchen smelled funny and the battery was hot as heck when I went to chuck it. But this is why I don't charge my batteries unattended.
     
  13. degarr

    degarr Full Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Melbourne, Australia
    Batteries are worth watching, a bit like children
     
  14. LMan

    LMan Full Member

    Sep 13, 2010
    SoCal
    Thanks for the post & Pics OS. all batteries when charging one should keep a eye on them I use Lipos on my RC stuff and have seen a guys Ford F-150 truck burn to the ground while charging at the out door track...
     
  15. MrCool

    MrCool Full Member

    Mar 26, 2010
    long beach
    im hoping for a long lasting battery life over here.
     
  16. MrCool

    MrCool Full Member

    Mar 26, 2010
    long beach
    can batterys cause a wierd smell or flavor when youre vaping?
     
  17. Quick1

    Quick1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 11, 2010
    USA
    Short answer, No. They could if they are failing but you would be (painfully) aware of that.
     
  18. caillel

    caillel Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 17, 2011
    Lynchburg, Virginia
    As long as you battery isn't leaking , there should be now smell whatsoever.
     
  19. Starspecks

    Starspecks Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 5, 2010
    Florida
    Wait, what happened here? Is this because of modding, overcharging, what is the lesson to be learned?

    Sent from my Evo
     
  20. buGG

    buGG Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2009
    brush²
    great questions...
     
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