Please encourage the use of child safety bottles only

[Rhamzha]

But to suggest that we must all demand that all sellers comply and it will relieve parental responsibility is absurd

Never suggested that it would, nor that it should. As to the other part, the other posts I have made in this thread have acknowledged the reasonable viewpoints that I did not originally take into account. Being open-minded about the situation, I have revised my position on this issue somewhat.

However, I do not understand the logic of being so utterly and completely against the notion of even an option being required upon checkout at the very least, as some have expressed. It is an extremely toxic poison. And, comments like "keep it where your kids can't get to it" apply whether it does or does not have any additional firewalls. But, to use it as a "cure-all" against accidents or unforseen events is naive in my humble opinion.

Vendors have just as much responsibility as manufacturer's, and end-users in my opinion. And, at the end of the day, they are the one's who communicate with manufacturers. Not us.

At any rate, I do not believe that carrying both and requiring the choice to be made upon checkout is being unreasonable, nor excessive, and is something that could very easily be done IN ADDITION to reasonable steps on the part of the end-user. It's not an either or proposition.

And, one last time... when the war really heats up... This is one of the things they will come after the industry for. And, statements like some of the one's in this thread will only damage the cause, not help promote it.

 

[Deschain]

And, one last time... when the war really heats up... This is one of the things they will come after the industry for. And, statements like some of the one's in this thread will only damage the cause, not help promote it.

I agree, we need to present a responsible image.

I live in the UK and don't face the same issues that US, Australian and other vapers do, but as a "community", we all have a vested interest in making sure that this culture or sub-culture or whatever is viewed in the most positive light.


.

 

[Valkerie]

Hello, all.

I just wanted to throw this out there as I think it's in everyone's best interest.

I would strongly encourage ALL re-sellers of e-liquid/juice/whatever-you-want-to-call-it to sell only bottles with child safety caps on it. And, I would encourage all buyers to also encourage their store(s) of choice to do the same.

Hi Rhamzha -

Welcome to the wonderful world of "herding cats."

While your suggestion, at face value makes sense, you forgot a couple of things.

1. Many people hated child-proof bottles when they first came out.
2. Many people have arthritis and find child-proof caps both painful and frustrating. According to a poll on this site many e-cig users tend to be in older demographics.
3. Many people who vape have no children in their homes.
4. Many people who vape and have no children, resent having to watch out for other people's children by paying higher amounts for things like child-proof caps for their liquids.
5. Many people dislike excessive regulations.
6. Many people are vaping fiends. They want as little as possible between them and their next drip/dip/cartridge fill.

I really appreciate your sentiments on the subject. I appreciate how hard it is to watch your children (not specifically yours, but all children,) 24/7. I know that children will get into everything that they are not supposed to get into and that seconds versus minutes count...However, please refer to reasons 1-6. (Also, as far as child-proof caps go, the ones on e-liquids are pretty lame, I think its really seconds versus seconds as far as the time it would take a child to open one.)

Do I think you should be able to purchase child-proof caps by the gross - absolutely. And they should be of a much higher quality than we currently have. However, I don't think that I should be forced to make the same purchase. The "for the children argument" has worn a little thin on this forum. We see it used against us too often for it to have meaning, even in cases where it should.

Herding cats is never fun, easy or sensible.

And, one last time... when the war really heats up... This is one of the things they will come after the industry for. And, statements like some of the one's in this thread will only damage the cause, not help promote it.

The war has already heated up. Which is why this forum practically self destructs everyday between 4:30 and 5:30PM when people log in for Sun Vaporer's updates. Child-proof caps should be a CASAA issue, not one for forum members.

You won't find consensus here.

 

[Rhamzha]

Hey, Valkerie. Thanks for the reply. throughout the thread some folks have basically pointed out your 1-6 (except for 6, which is kinda lame ) and I fully acknowledge those valid and reasonable points and have conceded to them.

Still think more should be done, but perhaps not so much as I suggested in my original approach. For both practical and political reasons. I don't believe it has to be an all or nothing. Don't believe we should settle for unacceptable methods/bandaids either simply for political appeasement.

Do agree with the above points, but do not believe that they negate a need for this and other related issues to be more seriously considered, and at the very least reasonable alternatives/options made available.

thanks for your thoughtful reply. For the record, never intended to come across as some "wacko" or to use anything against anyone. I've been vaping for a week, and it's the first time in my life that putting down cigs has been relatively effortless and attainable. However, regardless of what anyone else thinks about how I do or do not care for my children, I recognized a potential problem in my household, as well as an overall lack of informed people concerning just how dangerous nicotine can be when not treated with respect that it deserves. Particularly, in the concentrated form that we are using it.

 

[Beer Man]

Rhamzha, just bow out. The longer you preach about the perils of nicotine, the more it makes you look like an idiot.

 

[Valkerie]

Do agree with the above points, but do not believe that they negate a need for this and other related issues to be more seriously considered, and at the very least reasonable alternatives/options made available.

You're not a wacko. Trust me. I spend hours on this and other forums and that doesn't apply to you. You had a very sensible idea and hit a brick wall of opposing opinion. No biggie. If you have ideas, people will often oppose them.

I've very serious about the fact that you should join the political wing of the forum and that means CASAA.

While we're all united in our love of e-cigs, the open forum is too diverse. I've never seen a thread where everyone agrees. (Except that you should never buy e-cigs from Dealextreme.)

 

[Rhamzha]

Rhamzha, just bow out. The longer you preach about the perils of nicotine, the more it makes you look like an idiot.

you're probably right. This ain't really the place for me... The level of disrespect seems pretty staggering. Besides, I've got 3 very large forums of my own to run. no sense being attacked here for trying to express a viewpoint in a reasonable (and open-minded) fashion, as well as try to be receptive to others viewpoints and expand my base of knowledge on the subject.

Happy vaping.

 

[Beer Man]

I'm sorry, didn't mean to be so crass. Congrats on giving up analogs, I haven't been able to quite yet. So In reality, I envy you in a way. A strange way. Feel free to flame me.

 

[Rhamzha]

You're not a wacko. Trust me. I spend hours on this and other forums and that doesn't apply to you. You had a very sensible idea and hit a brick wall of opposing opinion. No biggie. If you have ideas, people will often oppose them.

I've very serious about the fact that you should join the political wing of the forum and that means CASAA.

While we're all united in our love of e-cigs, the open forum is too diverse. I've never seen a thread where everyone agrees. (Except that you should never buy e-cigs from Dealextreme.)

Thanks for the input and the suggestion. I'll consider it... Though, I turned off the news months ago, and I feel much better for it Thanks.

later.

 

[DaMulta]

I think they should be just because it would get the FDA maybe to back down a little more.

I freak out when my sister comes over with her little dogs. I have too really look to make sure I didn't drop a cartomizer that they could find. Then smell it thinking it was some kind of food. Chew it up, and then die.....

 

[Rhamzha]

I'm sorry, didn't mean to be so crass. Congrats on giving up analogs, I haven't been able to quite yet. So In reality, I envy you in a way. A strange way. Feel free to flame me.

no desire to flame you. Good luck on the endeavor.

 

[Valkerie]

I think they should be just because it would get the FDA maybe to back down a little more.

I freak out when my sister comes over with her little dogs. I have too really look to make sure I didn't drop a cartomizer that they could find. Then smell it thinking it was some kind of food. Chew it up, and then die.....

I have a 19 year old cat, that my late mother-in-law gave to my husband. My level of paranoia about juice and loose carts caused me to store everything in tins or in cabinets.

So I go to refill a cart, take the cart off the atomizer and the polyfil falls out, onto the floor, right in front of her. I never realized I could move so fast. Ever since then, the cart does not come off the atomizer unless I'm at a table.

The table then gets sprayed down and cleaned, because 19 or not, she is a cat.

 

[Mustang394]

I think having as an option at check out would be fine. I do disagree that the manufacturer is just as responsible as the parent.

We seem to live in a world where no one wants to take responsibility anymore. We own a small pet store that is located next to a hair cut place for kids. It never ceases to amaze me how many small children wonder in without their parents some as young as 2 or 3. (parents are next door with there other child)

Using Rhamzha's logic I should be held responsible if something happens to the child, I guess it's not the parents fault they were not watching there child and I should hire an employee to stand by the door and watch their children when they don't want to.

But in the end your probably right having it be required at check out will probably be necessary to keep some supplier from being sued because today's parents can't take the responsibility for there own child's welfare.

I have always wondered why my shirt says do not iron while wearing. I'm sure some iron or shirt company got sued and caused that to be put on a label.

 

[rjp44]

There are no small children in my home and I'm really tired of fighting "child proof" containers on too many products including medications for my arthritis.

 

[Kent C]

This is why we end up with agencies like the FDA that impose their 'well intentioned ideas' into our lives by force or threat of force in the end.

These are the same type of people that make up the 'peace and love' faction, who in fact, promote violence or threat of violence if you don't agree with their ideas. Rational people operate on consent and resist force. Not these guys. At first it's "someone ought to do something about x" (usually using kids as human shields in order to sell their control over you) and if challenged it's "I'm just saying... " Yeah, we know what you're saying - we can read. Read this:

If YOU want those type of caps, YOU buy them and YOU retrofit them onto YOUR bottles without imposing any cost on Vendors or other consumers. Stay the F out of my life.

 

[supertrkre2812]

That was my point when I posted earlier.
If you feel the need to protect your children from danger, then by all means, PROTECT THEM. Do not allow them to ride in a car, eat with a knife, look at the TV too long(bad eyes), play Nintendo,PS3,X360.
I want to know, when you smoked, did you leave your evil cigarettes laying around, with a lighter on top of the pack????????

I have no problem with you wanting to protect your children.
If you really want to protect your children from e-cig juice, go to harbor freight tools and buy a cheap lockable safe. $20-$30 andd lock up your juice.
Or let me know and i will send you a couple of links to websites that YOU can order all the caps you want, and you can pay for them, along with the high shipping to get them.
I don't have to worry about my juice. My kids will not mess with it because i told them not too.

 

[kristin]

WOW. Just wow. I can't believe the things being said here. It defies all reason.

Why would it be so bad to have the OPTION to buy liquid with child-proof caps IF YOU WANT THEM?? No one is requiring you to buy the ones with the childproof caps. She said several times - just make them an OPTION.

Right now 90% of liquid sold is WITHOUT child-proof caps. So, then if you want them, your right is taken away, because you can't get them. Where is the right to get the child-proof caps for people who want them? Who says your right to NOT have them available is more valid than those who want them?? If BOTH are available, how does that harm people who don't want them? But at least give people the option to get them if they want.

Do any of you realize that a battle is going on with the FDA and anti e-cig groups? They are just looking for excuses to ban these. They already say e-cigs are being marketed to kids. The lack of safety measures just gives them more ammunition.

Don't require them, but at last make them available on all sites as an option, so these groups trying to ban us can't say they are "unsafe" bottles of poison. And it IS poison. If you think otherwise, you're dilusional.

All of the "holier than thou" comments on parenting just disgust me. Those of you who say "just raise your kids right" or "I did just fine this way or that" either never had kids or GOT LUCKY. Keep using your easy-off caps (and I'm not talking about people with disabilities - I'm talking about the "perfect" people with "perfect" parenting skills) and come back to me when you turn your back for a second and your quick, light-footed 2 year old grabs the bottle off the table or counter and the first thing they do is stick it in their mouth. The caps may not really be "child-proof, but they'll give you an extra few moments to react.

People who "drip" or constantly "top off" usually have their bottle close at hand - not "put up." Don't tell me you never take your eyes off the bottle. That you remember to pick it up every time you walk away from the computer or couch. "Because I told them so?" ROTFLMAO!! That's a good one. Never met a kid that did that in my life. Must be some secret parenting power or the kids are so afraid of you (wonder why) that they listen to everything they're told out of fear. Accidents happen and there is nothing wrong with wanting to take extra precautions and asking vendors to consider the needs of those who want to take those precautions. If you want to have child-proof caps, you should be able to get them without being called a lazy parent or other names. Same as if you choose not to get them.

I can't believe you people want to even deny the availability of these caps for people who want them. That is just ridiculous.

If nothing else, sell the caps separately for those who want them.

And I'm embarrassed for how rudely this poster has been treated. Nice image to give the vaping community, folks. You should be proud.

Keep on doing as you're doing. Give the FDA and their ilk all the ammunition they need. Vendors needn't show some sense of caution or concern about the public. For that matter, they should keep posting ads in the comments section of press releases and link back to their site, so people don't believe any of the other real comments about e-cigs. And they shouldn't have to label what they put in the liquid either - let them put whatever they want in there. They have a right to make a buck off you without any sense of responsibility or care. You're an adult, if your concerned, take it to a lab and pay a few hundred bucks to get it tested yourself. If you get sick, it's your own fault.

Good thing they don't make seatbelts available in cars or put expiration dates on meat or put GFCI shut-offs on electrical appliances like hairdryers. Those things would just take away our right to look out for ourselves. We don't need no stinkin' requirements made on manufacturers! Oh, wait...

 

[shivadance]

I do find it slightly amusing that this discussion revolves around a substance which, while not banned, is not entirely legal either. While I think that beating the opposition to the punch and applying some safety measures is not alltogether a bad thing...

I'm just darn happy there are vendors out there (small and large) that will sell me the stuff, childproof or not. While there are some big suppliers out there, I see many of these as 1 person or mom and pop operations that are just trying to sell something they believe in and make a little money. I don't really blame the smaller suppliers for not offering childproof bottles. I do think childproofing would cost just a touch more, so making it an option with juice purchase is a good idea.

Maybe even a halfway measure is to ensure bottles with nic are labeled with a warning. Getting the message out is part of the battle too, is it not? And offering a warning does not increase cost other than a bigger label. Maybe if all vendors would at least sell childproof bottles that people could transfer liquid to. Then vendors would have another product to sell and thus, a motive (make a few more cents off another item).

I'll admit I prefer my 6ml and 10ml sample bottles at their low price with no childrpoofing b/c they are easy for me to carry and use and I have no need of childproofing. So I am coming from that angle. Warning people I'm all for. But nicotine gum and patches don't come in childproof packages, unless you count getting that crap out of the foil.

 

[Kent C]

WOW. Just wow. I can't believe the things being said here. It defies all reason.

Why would it be so bad to have the OPTION to buy liquid with child-proof caps IF YOU WANT THEM?? No one is requiring you to buy the ones with the childproof caps. She said several times - just make them an OPTION.

Right now 90% of liquid sold is WITHOUT child-proof caps. So, then if you want them, your right is taken away, because you can't get them. Where is the right to get the child-proof caps for people who want them? Who says your right to NOT have them available is more valid than those who want them?? If BOTH are available, how does that harm people who don't want them? But at least give people the option to get them if they want.
...

As some of what you say seems to be directed at a few of my comments I'll just say if that is so then you didn't read me correctly. My comments...

"If YOU want those type of caps, YOU buy them and YOU retrofit them onto YOUR bottles without imposing any cost on Vendors or other consumers."

.... answers your:

"Why would it be so bad to have the OPTION to buy liquid with child-proof caps IF YOU WANT THEM?? "

There IS that option for those who want them. Those type of caps are available at many sites for a relatively low price. From the quickest of searches:

SKS Bottle & Packaging, Caps/Closures, Plastic Caps, Plastic Caps, Black Plastic Tamper Evident Caps and Orifice Reducer


Even that would be no concern of mine since I wouldn't buy them - that is the OP's choice. None of his options (rights) are being 'taken away'. He has the perfect right to protect his children by buying those caps. What is NOT his right is to presume to make a vendor have that as an option.

kristin:
"But at least give people the option to get them if they want."

Who are you asking to 'give' the option? The vendors, I'm guessing. Well what if the vendor, for whatever reason, doesn't want to? Do you suggest forcing them to do so? If not then who is it that is 'taking away the option of the OP?' And you're running for some position to represent this community right? Would that type of thing be on the top of your agenda? Forcing vendors to 'do the right thing?' What's next? Don't you see how issues like this is the slippery slope? You're appeasing the FDA and by doing so playing right into their hands. A tax on juice? That sounds reasonable! That way we can pay for the child proof caps and everyone contributes!!!

Thanks but no thanks.

It might or might not be in the vendor's best interest to make those caps as an option but it should be a decision made by the vendor based on demand and costs of doing so, not forced by some ecig activist group or the gov't.

 

[Lyndale]

I would strongly encourage ALL re-sellers of e-liquid/juice/whatever-you-want-to-call-it to sell only bottles with child safety caps on it. And, I would encourage all buyers to also encourage their store(s) of choice to do the same.

This is the post I responded to. Notice the "I would strongly encourage ALL re-sellers... to sell only bottles with child safety caps..."

Why would it be so bad to have the OPTION to buy liquid with child-proof caps IF YOU WANT THEM?? No one is requiring you to buy the ones with the childproof caps. She said several times - just make them an OPTION.

I have no problem with the idea of child-proof caps as an OPTION. I do have a problem with child proof caps being the ONLY option. But again, realize that some of us replied to the above quoted post.

But in the mean time, as others have suggested, if people are that worried they can transfer their juice into child-proof bottles.