Please people, don't be this guy [Passenger Removed From Flight]

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toriL

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Dec 4, 2010
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The anti smoking folks have learned how to effectively campaign against tobacco, they don't care if they are using truth or lies - they are at war. Now, they've had years to learn how to do this... and they have now set their sights on ecigs.... I think its a war and wars aren't won with manners.

I doubt I'd be vaping on a plane and debating it with the flight attendants, but in most other area's I'll stand up for my right to vape. Luckily I live in Virginia.
 

maxx

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With the paranoid state of air travel these days...I agree that an airplane is not a good place to stand up for rights. However, I am not sure we can take the "safe" route of not antagonizing the non-vaping public. We tried that as smokers and we got our clocks cleaned as reason was replaced with fanaticism on the part of the antis. I don't know where the sweet spot is in terms of stategy, but I do know that we have to have more balls as vapers than we did as smokers or we go down in flames (no pun intended) again.
 

Aaeli

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Rosa Parks didn't change things on her own. She represented a movement that the majority of people were willing to accept. People were outraged by her treatment and slowly changes came.

Vaping on a plane is entirely different from civil rights. The two situations aren't compatible. However, if you want to make the comparison, Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King did not take the "in your face" approach and still managed to get their message across.

No one will ever want to take up the cause of an abrasive group of "in your face" people.
 

Mark Linehan

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At this point, quite a lot of people have heard inklings of e-cigarettes but really know next to nothing. I have puffed my e-cigarette in the grocery store a few times and all I got were dirty looks from people who had no idea what I was doing aside from the fact that it looks like smoke but I was using a black plastic box mod and using sweet cream e-liquid. One time I puffed it and I was standing next to three store workers and one was a management type person I think. None of them said anything or even looked at me funny. I was not trying to start trouble, actually, I am just a very heavy vaper and I did it out of habit more than any other reason. If someone who worked for the store asked me not to I would have just said okay and put it in my pocket instead of on the lanyard around my neck so I would not use it instinctively. I believe that we should be able to use our e-cigarettes pretty much anywhere we want because I do not believe I am harming anyone by using mine, but then again, I do not know for sure how nicotine is left in the air by exhaling a big cloud of vapor. Does anyone know for sure about the levels of nicotine in post-vapor, if any??

I think there are places where we need to refrain from using e-cigarettes until we have gotten legislation passed that specifically says we can use them anywhere we want to. Like hospitals, airplanes, courthouses and places sort of like that. I think this guy in the airplane should have gone into the bathroom if he needed a vape that badly. He knew full well that people would react poorly to big clouds of what looked like smoke being blown around them. Although, maybe he vaped accidentally like I have done, but chances are he took the e-cigarette out after getting on the plane and decided he wanted to see what happened. ..but like everyone else, only this guy knows for sure what he was thinking, if he was thinking at all.

For now, we need to be respectful of the general public because they don't know what it is we are doing. They don't know how it is going to effect them. Most people probably think that the vapers are the ones being obnoxious and treading on their rights. Our rights are just as important as their rights, but we need to be careful because this is a battle where we are heavily outnumbered and the FDA and big tobacco have a lot of money on their side and a powerful secret weapon called misinformation that they can use to lead the populace around by their noses like scared bleating little lambs.

Once we get legislation passed saying e-cigarettes are okay (if we ever can)
Once the general public are really aware of what e-cigarettes are and do

Then we can start using them indoors in certain places. Maybe we can form groups of people in our areas that can approach certain business owners and discuss e-cigarette yse in their establishments. Not all establishments right now of course, but there are certain places where they might be a good idea, and could be used to convert smokers as well.

BARS & LOUNGES
FRATERNAL ORGANIZATIONS (Elks, Lions, Moose, KofC, etc)
RESTAURANTS
STORES

If we get permission from the owners and they can help us explain to other patrons that it is allowed and nothing to worry about. We can maybe convert some people as well. Especially in bars in areas that have banned smoking in bars. You could even get the bars to maybe sell disposables to people?? Just a thought..

Anyways.. This guy on the plane was more than likely trying to prove a point, but went about it in the wrong way, but I don't know for sure so I am speculating just like the rest of us. There are things we can do though to help get our community presence out there and information to the people about e-cigarettes. We need to do it gently and slowly or as others have said, we will push people away by trying to ram it down their throats. No one likes the be pushed around. Not us. Not them. We are very outnumbered though.
 

Exylos

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Rosa Parks didn't change things on her own. She represented a movement that the majority of people were willing to accept. People were outraged by her treatment and slowly changes came.

Vaping on a plane is entirely different from civil rights. The two situations aren't compatible. However, if you want to make the comparison, Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King did not take the "in your face" approach and still managed to get their message across.

No one will ever want to take up the cause of an abrasive group of "in your face" people.

Ok wait you do not call walking on a bus it is illegal for you to sit on, and getting arrested just so you can point out that the rule is stupid and unfair, In your face.

Or how about a demonstration that you know the government is going to try and stop with police in your face, even when Martin Luther king handed out rain coats before hand, and told people in speech prior to starting the march, when they bring out the fire hoses, turn your back so it doesn't break your ribs.


As far as it being compared to civil rights. That is exactly what it is. We know from testing done in new zealand that vaping doesn't second hand vaper. So it doesn't harm those around us. So its a personal choice for me. But then again we do know that Bullet kill people, but it is still my civil right to own and use a gun, and that is a personal choice for me.

Just because it's two different forms of civil rights, one a natural civil right being of color and one a given civil right, The right to choose something for myself. Does not make them no less a civil rights fight.
 

Slea

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Ever heard of Claudette Colvin?

She did the same thing Rosa Parks did, in the same city, on the same public transit system. She was taken off the bus, handcuffed and arrested. She challenged the segregation law in court.

But you probably haven't heard of her.

Because even 9 months before Rosa Parks, the moment was not *quite* right.

Sure you have to stand up sometime, but it really isn't going to accomplish much until you gain the kind of sympathy that guarantees the rest of the world will stand up behind you.
 

Aaeli

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No one is trying to stop me from getting a job, drinking from a water fountain, or voting. When that happens maybe I'll be more militant about it.

They are both civil rights, I suppose that's true. But they aren't both as serious. I'm not willing to land a plane just for vaping rights. All that accomplishes is sending off an entire plane of angry passengers with a negative experience about vaping.
 
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maxx

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With all due respect, you guys are dreaming if you think we will ever have widespread public support. Never happen...

The best we can hope for is a status akin to protected minority. And nobody is going to grant us that unless we demand it at some point. What reason does a non-vaper have to to support us if we don't make it a rights issue? Without that there is no motivation to even have an opinion on the subject for non-vapers.

This incident is a bad example because of the special nature of air travel these days. Any disruption on a plane will force a landing and news headlines. But the subject of rights is something we as a community have to address at some point. I happen to be of the opnion that nothing will gained unless we go get it this time.
 

Aaeli

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With all due respect, you guys are dreaming if you think we will ever have widespread public support. Never happen...

The best we can hope for is a status akin to protected minority. And nobody is going to grant us that unless we demand it at some point. What reason does a non-vaper have to to support us if we don't make it a rights issue? Without that there is no motivation to even have an opinion on the subject for non-vapers.

This incident is a bad example because of the special nature of air travel these days. Any disruption on a plane will force a landing and news headlines. But the subject of rights is something we as a community have to address at some point. I happen to be of the opnion that nothing will gained unless we go get it this time.

I do agree with you that this isn't really a good example. I would probably be less inclined to think he was just being an ... if the situation were different. Most people don't recognize ecigs and would be unnerved by seeing something like that on a plane. Also, if you take a stand in a Burger King it's not going to require all the other customers to leave without lunch.
 

Exylos

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No one is trying to stop me from getting a job, drinking from a water fountain, or voting. When that happens maybe I'll be more militant about it.

They are both civil rights, I suppose that's true. But they aren't both as serious. I'm not willing to land a plane just for vaping rights. All that accomplishes is sending off an entire plane of angry passengers with a negative experience about vaping.

I cannot get these to link sorry, if someone else could it would be nice.

No one is trying to stop me from getting a job
See thread this forums.
2 hospitals will no longer hire people with nicotine in their systems
Companies right to not hire, Smokers or vapers.

drinking from a water fountain
This thread shows that it is a slippery slope already No water fountains not yet. But wait we do know that they don't wantus near that water fountain if we are vaping.

Yes I agree a whole plane may have been mad, but did we allow them to be mad for the right reasons or the wrong ones. Right now they know only that they were diverted because he was vaping. But what they should be told, they should shown that no they were diverted because the people on the plane, the ones in charge violated his civil right, and did their part to bring about fear over lies, so they could be right, and that is our fault that they do not know that, because we are being quiet.

As for do I know Claudette Colvin

Yes i do, it had nothing to do with the right time, accept the fact that the black leader and her deemed it better not to over publicize her, because she was pregnant at the time, and the life of her baby was more important to her than headlines, and the for her to take part in a true in your face fight. She was no less a hero, and she was no less part of that civil right fight. It was no less the right time, for the world it was the wrong time for her.

That is the only reason most people do not know who she is, and use rosa instead.
 

BradSmith

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Delta already has a no e-cig policy it's in their rules along with all the other stuff. This was interesting from the comment section on another article.

"This is not the whole truth, my wife was on that plane. They are not telling us something, my wife said it was much more than an electonic cigarette. Plane surrounded with guns drawn police. 2 gun drawn police entered plane from rear and handcuffed suspect, took him off plane, removed his luggage and had plane checked for structural damage. WHAT IS THE WHOLE STORY???"

Incident: Allegiant MD82 near Norfolk on Jan 24th 2011, unruly passenger

I'm just guessing but I think this guy most have become more than a little beligerent.
 

DC2

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With all due respect, you guys are dreaming if you think we will ever have widespread public support. Never happen...

The best we can hope for is a status akin to protected minority. And nobody is going to grant us that unless we demand it at some point. What reason does a non-vaper have to to support us if we don't make it a rights issue? Without that there is no motivation to even have an opinion on the subject for non-vapers.
This is an interesting point, and so I will jump back in since this seems worth talking about...
:)

I have always felt that we can get the public on our side once they learn that vapor is not dangerous.
But first we have to prove that, if we can.

Then we will have a lot of non-smokers on our side, those who love and care about people that are still smoking.
Will that be enough? Good question.
 
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Aaeli

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I have read about the zero nicotine policy at the Fl Hospital. I find it really stupid considering it would apply to those using ANY NRT. I don't believe that it will become the norm, however. It simply wouldn't work nation wide. It's not cost effective and eventually economics would shut it down.

In my opinion our voices would be better served trying to change how the FDA handles ecigs AND new medications. It is a problem that eventually affects a much larger base. People tend to believe that the FDA is truthful and is there to protect them. If we make people more aware of how the FDA operates, less people will take their suggestions as fact. That would put an end to many silly policies (like the one you referred to) that are based on FDA "facts".
 

UntamedRose

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Was trying to find a better news article on it...not really right right now.

But I did find this interesting comment on one of the stories...

"This is not the whole truth, my wife was on that plane. They are not telling us something, my wife said it was much more than an electonic cigarette. Plane surrounded with guns drawn police. 2 gun drawn police entered plane from rear and handcuffed suspect, took him off plane, removed his luggage and had plane checked for structural damage. WHAT IS THE WHOLE STORY???" http://avherald.com/h?article=436b66c6

take it with salt of course being an online comment but ?????? 0o
 

Aaeli

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Was trying to find a better news article on it...not really right right now.

But I did find this interesting comment on one of the stories...

"This is not the whole truth, my wife was on that plane. They are not telling us something, my wife said it was much more than an electonic cigarette. Plane surrounded with guns drawn police. 2 gun drawn police entered plane from rear and handcuffed suspect, took him off plane, removed his luggage and had plane checked for structural damage. WHAT IS THE WHOLE STORY???" Incident: Allegiant MD82 near Norfolk on Jan 24th 2011, unruly passenger

take it with salt of course being an online comment but ?????? 0o

You know, I've said that some of our PVs look like pipe bombs LOL. Maybe it was an overreaction? I agree with the poster though, I wonder what they were actually concerned about?
 
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