Please read - action needed - New Jersey E-Cig Ban!!

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Mac

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 5, 2009
2,477
15,159
All up in your grill..
Here is a copy of the letter I sent:
Dear Sir or Madam:



It has come to my attention that there is an effort to force a large group of NJ non smokers to breathe in deadly carcinogens, tar and other chemicals against their will. When someone stops using tobacco and starts using an e-cigarette they have effectively become a non smoker. They may still use nicotine, but they have stopped smoking. This means they have stopped inhaling the following:





Acetanisole
Acetic Acid
Acetoin
Acetophenone
6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
Acetylpyrazine
2-Acetylpyridine
3-Acetylpyridine
2-Acetylthiazole
Aconitic Acid
dl-Alanine
Alfalfa Extract
Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
Allyl Hexanoate
Allyl Ionone
Almond Bitter Oil
Ambergris Tincture
Ammonia
Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
Ammonium Sulfide
Amyl Alcohol
Amyl Butyrate
Amyl Formate
Amyl Octanoate
alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
Amyris Oil
trans-Anethole
Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
Anise
Anise Star, Extract and Oils
Anisyl Acetate
Anisyl Alcohol
Anisyl Formate
Anisyl Phenylacetate
Apple juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
Apricot Extract and juice Concentrate
1-Arginine
Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
Ascorbic Acid
1-Asparagine Monohydrate
1-Aspartic Acid
Balsam Peru and Oil
Basil Oil
Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
Beeswax White
Beet juice Concentrate
Benzaldehyde
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
Benzoin Resin
Benzophenone
Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Butyrate
Benzyl Cinnamate
Benzyl Propionate
Benzyl Salicylate
Bergamot Oil
Bisabolene
Black Currant Buds Absolute
Borneol
Bornyl Acetate
Buchu Leaf Oil
1,3-Butanediol
2,3-Butanedione
1-Butanol
2-Butanone
4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
Butyl Acetate
Butyl Butyrate
Butyl Butyryl Lactate
Butyl Isovalerate
Butyl Phenylacetate
Butyl Undecylenate
3-Butylidenephthalide
Butyric Acid]
Cadinene
Caffeine
Calcium Carbonate
Camphene
Cananga Oil
Capsicum Oleoresin
Caramel Color
Caraway Oil
Carbon Dioxide
Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
Carob Bean and Extract
beta-Carotene
Carrot Oil
Carvacrol
4-Carvomenthenol
1-Carvone
beta-Caryophyllene
beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
Cassia Bark Oil
Cassie Absolute and Oil
Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
Cedar Leaf Oil
Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
Cedrol
Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
Cellulose Fiber
Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
Chicory Extract
Chocolate
Cinnamaldehyde
Cinnamic Acid
Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
Cinnamyl Acetate
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cinnamyl Cinnamate
Cinnamyl Isovalerate
Cinnamyl Propionate
Citral
Citric Acid
Citronella Oil
dl-Citronellol
Citronellyl Butyrate
itronellyl Isobutyrate
Civet Absolute
Clary Oil
Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
Cocoa
Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
Coconut Oil
Coffee
Cognac White and Green Oil
Copaiba Oil
Coriander Extract and Oil
Corn Oil
Corn Silk
Costus Root Oil
Cubeb Oil
Cuminaldehyde
para-Cymene
1-Cysteine
Tar
Carbon Monoxide

This is far from a complete list but just some of the things that my parents and friends in NJ no longer breathe in on a daily basis. By forcing them to a designated smoking area you will be in effect forcing them to once again inhale the dangerous chemicals they have struggled so hard to escape. Not only is this unethical. It is absurd. Anyone who has seen an electronic cigarette in action knows that the vapor disappears in seconds and poses no harm to anyone around the vapor user. Dozens of doctors have come forward reporting that their patients (in many instances 40 year smokers) have shown drastic improvements in their respiratory function. I implore you not to ignore these and the other facts surrounding this landmark case. You have the chance now to do whats right and help many people who are not in a position to stand up for themselves. Please do the right thing before it is too late and another person who struggled against their tobacco addiction and won is forced to breathe toxic clouds of tobacco smoke for the sake of perception.



Best,

Mac
 

ramblingrose

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2009
464
0
New Jersey USA
This is all getting seriously depressing. Okay, my letter is ready to go:

Re: Pending bills S3053/S3054

Dear Senator,

This letter is regarding the proposed re-definition of electronic cigarettes as equivalent to tobacco cigarettes, thus incorporating them into the indoor ban.

The vapor exhaled IS NOT SMOKE – there is no combustion; no tar, no carbon monoxide; none of the dangerous chemicals present in second smoke. The FDA has not yet evaluated studies or made any statements regarding the safety of the exhaled vapor. Unless or until such time that there is evidence of risk from the exhaled vapor, it would be inappropriate to act without a scientific basis. The results of the small sample of cartridges studied puts e-cigarettes essentially on a par with approved nicotine replacements. The levels of nitrosamines are minute, and essentially equal to the amounts found in approved NRTs. The amount of DEG found was also minute, was in only a single cartridge, and was within the amount allowed by the FDA to be present in propylene glycol. Let’s not forget that this vapor has been used on a far more grand scale as stage fog in theater productions and concerts for many years.

While studies to date are limited, virtually none of the potentially dangerous chemicals found in tobacco smoke have been found in exhaled vapor. 90% of the nicotine in e-cigarettes is absorbed by the user even before the vapor reaches the user’s lungs.

Health New Zealand’s study concludes:

“Second hand mist from an e-cigarette is not smoke at all, and does not contain any substance known to cause death, short or long term, in the quantities found. It becomes invisible within a few seconds, and is not detectable by smell.
Exhaled breath after e-cigarette use has been tested for CO only. No increase in CO was found. The e-cigarette does not create side-stream smoke.
Exhaled breath after e-smoking contains even less nicotine per puff, as much of the nicotine inhaled is absorbed. Similarly, propylene glycol is largely absorbed and little is exhaled.
No harm found in e-cigarette mist
Nicotine is not harmful in the quantities mentioned.
Propylene glycol is harmless – it is used in making theatrical fog and as an ingredient in soaps, personal lubricants and intravenous medicines.”

As a former smoker (40 years with no success quitting after many attempts with approved NRTs), e-cigarettes allowed me to finally quit 8 months ago. They are a godsend for people like me! With 400,000 Americans still dying each year due to smoking, and a long term success rate for quitting of less than 10% with currently approved methods, racing to limit use of this new option isn’t the answer.

E-cigarettes have allowed many of us to quit smoking, and allowed many others to cut down significantly. Having finally quit, we should not be forced into smoking zones where we must inhale second hand smoke.


Nearly all users of e-cigarettes are former smokers. Setting an age requirement of 19, or even 21, would be in line with current policies for other “adult” products such as cigarettes or alcohol. Regulation such as that is welcome and important.

Please consider this legislation carefully – I am one of many who have finally found something that helped me end my addiction to cancer sticks. I’m proud of my accomplishment, and growing healthier every day. I should not be forced to be exposed to second hand smoke, and should not be treated as anything less than the successful ex-smoker I’ve become.

Sincerely,
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
5,171
13,288
67
Action requested: Please contact NJ State Senators urging them to reject S-3503 (to ban adult use of e-cigarettes in ALL indoor workplaces in NJ) and to support S-3504 (to ban sales of e-cigarettes to minors under 19). NJ Senate contact information is below.

Background: Two weeks ago, NJ State Senator Joseph Vitale introduced S 3503 S3053
and S 3504 S3054 On Monday, the NJ Senate Health Committee approved the bills, and the full NJ Senate is scheduled to consider (i.e. vote on) the legislation tomorrow, Thursday, December 10 at 2PM. A press release issued by the bill's sponsors is at: Gordon/Vitale Bill Would Ban Sale Of So-Called ?E-Cigarettes? | Politicker NJ Identical legislation (A-4227/A-4228) was approved by the NJ Assembly on Monday N.J. Assembly committee approves e-cigarette ban | New Jersey Real-Time News - - NJ.com

Here is the letter Smokefree Pennsylvania sent to all NJ Senators.

- - -

Dear Senator

To improve public health, Smokefree Pennsylvania urges you to SUPPORT S-3504 (to ban sales of electronic cigarettes to minors under 19) and to REJECT S-3503 (to ban adult use of electronic cigarettes in ALL indoor workplaces).

As you may be aware, about 100,000 smokers in the US have quit smoking by switching to smokefree nicotine inhalers (commonly called electronic cigarettes) during the past several years. Electronic cigarettes (aka e-cigarettes) look like a real cigarette, but emit NO hazardous tobacco smoke, and pose NO risks to nonusers. E-cigarettes emit a tiny amount of nicotine to users, and emit a tiny amount of propylene glycol vapor (commonly used in theatrical fog, asthma inhalers and thousands of air sanitizing products). The inhalation of propylene glycol has been extensively studies for many decades, and poses no health risks at the tiny levels emitted by e-cigarettes.

Unfortunately for public health and common sense, S-3503 inaccurately redefines "smoking" as including the use of smokefree e-cigarettes in order to ban the use of these lifesaving products in all workplaces in NJ (including in the privacy of one's office, work station, etc.). While Smokefree Pennsylvania has advocated smokefree workplace laws for more than 20 years (because tobacco smoke pollution poses a health hazard to people and property), we urge you to REJECT S-3503 because it improperly defines the usage of smokefree products as "smoking", unfairly discriminates against e-cigarette users who have recently quit smoking, would force e-cigarette users outside into smoking areas to obtain smokefree nicotine, and would discourage hundreds of thousands of smokers from quitting and/or reducing cigarette consumption by switching to e-cigarettes.

Proponents of S-3503 have grossly and intentionally misrepresented the health risks of e-cigarettes in order to scare legislators into voting for this unwarranted legislation that threatens (instead of improves) public health. Smokers who have recently quit and/or are trying to quit need support, not harassment and ostracism.

We also urge you SUPPORT S-3504 (that would prohibit the sale of e-cigarettes to minors under 19 years) because it is a reasonable and responsible public health meausure. Although there is no evidence that e-cigarettes have been marketed to youth (as some proponents of S-3504 have falsely claimed), enactment of this legislation would help prevent future sales of these products to minors (similar to laws that prohibit tobacco sales to minors).

Thank you for your consideration, and feel free to contact me any time for additional information or assistance.

William T. Godshall, MPH
Executive Director
Smokefree Pennsylvania
1926 Monongahela Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15218
412-351-5880
FAX 351-5881
smokefree@compuserve.com

- - - -

NJ Senate e-mails (note that a combined list is at the bottom that can be cut/pasted in the "To" line of an e-mail)
Additional NJ Senate contact information is at: Alphabetical List of Members

Senator Diane B. Allen
senallen@njleg.org

Senator Bill Baroni
senbaroni@njleg.org

Senator Christopher Bateman
senbateman@njleg.org

Senator James Beach
senbeach@njleg.org

Senator Jennifer Beck
senbeck@njleg.org

Senator Anthony R. Bucco
senbucco@njleg.org

Senator Barbara Buono
senbuono@njleg.org

Senator Gerald Cardinale
sencardinale@njleg.org

Senator Andrew R. Ciesla
senciesla@njleg.org

Senator Richard J. Codey
sencodey@njleg.org

Senator Christopher J. Connors
senconnors@njleg.org

Senator Sandra B. Cunningham
sencunningham@njleg.org

Senator Michael J. Doherty
sendoherty@njleg.org

Senator Nia H. Gill, Esq.
sengill@njleg.org

Senator John A. Girgenti
sengirgenti@njleg.org

Senator Robert M. Gordon
sengordon@njleg.org

Senator Philip E. Haines
senhaines@njleg.org

Senator Sean T. Kean
senkean@njleg.org

Senator Thomas H. Kean, Jr.
senkean@njleg.org

Senator Joseph M. Kyrillos, Jr.
senkyrillos@njleg.org

Senator Raymond J. Lesniak
senlesniak@njleg.org

Senator Fred H. Madden, Jr.
senmadden@njleg.org

Senator Kevin J. O'Toole
senotoole@njleg.org

Senator Steven V. Oroho
senoroho@njleg.org

Senator Joseph Pennacchio
senpennacchio@njleg.org

Senator Dana L. Redd
senredd@njleg.org

Senator Ronald L. Rice
senrice@njleg.org

Senator M. Teresa Ruiz
senruiz@njleg.org

Senator Nicholas J. Sacco
sensacco@njleg.org

Senator Paul A. Sarlo
sensarlo@njleg.org

Senator Nicholas P. Scutari
senscutari@njleg.org

Senator Robert W. Singer
sensinger@njleg.org

Senator Bob Smith
senbsmith@njleg.org

Senator Brian P. Stack
senstack@njleg.org

Senator Stephen M. Sweeney
sensweeney@njleg.org

Senator Shirley K. Turner
senturner@njleg.org

Senator Jeff Van Drew
senvandrew@njleg.org

Senator Joseph F. Vitale
senvitale@njleg.org

Senator Loretta Weinberg
senweinberg@njleg.org

Senator Jim Whelan
senwhelan@njleg.org

senallen@njleg.org, senbaroni@njleg.org, senbateman@njleg.org, senbeach@njleg.org, senbeck@njleg.org, senbucco@njleg.org, senbuono@njleg.org, sencardinale@njleg.org, senciesla@njleg.org, sencodey@njleg.org, senconnors@njleg.org, sencunningham@njleg.org, sendoherty@njleg.org, sengill@njleg.org, sengirgenti@njleg.org, sengordon@njleg.org, senhaines@njleg.org, senkean@njleg.org, Senkean@njleg.org, senkyrillos@njleg.org, senlesniak@njleg.org, senmadden@njleg.org, senotoole@njleg.org, senoroho@njleg.org, senpennacchio@njleg.org, senredd@njleg.org, senrice@njleg.org, senruiz@njleg.org, sensacco@njleg.org, sensarlo@njleg.org, senscutari@njleg.org, sensinger@njleg.org, senbsmith@njleg.org, senstack@njleg.org, sensweeney@njleg.org, senturner@njleg.org, senvandrew@njleg.org, senvitale@njleg.org, senweinberg@njleg.org, senwhelan@njleg.org
 
I sent this letter:

Esteemed Senator,

Although I fully support restricting the sale of products containing nicotine to adults over the age of 18 (or by prescription), it has come to my attention that New Jersey is considering an indoor workplace ban on electronic cigarettes. Let me state plainly: This is misguided. I understand that recent news of a FDA report may have you concerned that exposure to electronic cigarette vapor could be a workplace hazard, however, there is no evidence to support this. I pray that you will carefully consider the following:


The tobacco related impurities found in the FDA study are at barely detectable levels and most were not detected at all in the actual vapor.
There is an important physical distinction between vapor and smoke:
Smoke is the byproduct of combustion (burning), vapor is merely a change in state.
"Electronic Cigarettes" produce a vapor of propylene glycol and/or glycerin optionally containing flavoring and a small amount of nicotine.
"Electronic Cigarettes" are only activated when in use, therefore there is no "sidestream" vapor.
The majority of nicotine or any other ingredients in the vapor are absorbed by the user, and any remaining vapor usually dissipates within a few seconds.
There is no reason to suspect that propylene glycol vapor presents any public health hazard whatsoever. It is classified as GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe).
Many electronic cigarette users are attempting to replace a smoking habit and should not be forced to subject themselves to secondhand smoke when many are attempting to quit smoking.
There is a public health benefit in encouraging employees to reduce harm by replacing their smoking habit with a smoke-free alternative.
Employees can be more productive if they are not needlessly forced outside and away from their work to expose themselves to sidestream and secondhand smoke.

Before you consider banning the use of smoke-free products, I hope that you will consider how these products have helped people like me to stop smoking and thereby reduce the risk of cancer and heart disease for myself and those around me.

My name is Thad Marney, I am a 34 year old separated father of a beautiful 8 year old daughter. Although my background is in the technology field, I currently work as a home care provider for adults with disabilities. I was recently elected to serve on the Board of Directors for a newly formed organization called Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives (CASAA), but I receive no compensation and have absolutely zero financial interest in any tobacco, pharmaceutical, or electronic cigarette business. 15 years ago this week my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I have dedicated my personal efforts to advocating smoke-free alternatives to that cause.

Raised in a traditional Christian home, I never expected to start smoking cigarettes, but when I got my first job in computer technical support I quickly realized that nearly all my coworkers were smokers, and I picked up the habit "socially" that eventually grew into an addiction to nicotine and a pack-a-day habit. As soon as I realized that I was becoming dependent on nicotine, I wanted to quit. My first attempt at "Cold Turkey" happened when I was going through a personal struggle and I decided that I did not want to lean on any chemicals to help me through...but once I got through the crisis and my life returned to "normal" stress levels, the symptoms of my ADHD eventually got the better of me and the habit resumed. Next I tried the nicotine patch, and although it helped ease the cravings, I had a bad reaction to the adhesive and was unable to continue using it. Next I tried the nicotine gum, and it also helped but the flavor and texture were not appealing and I eventually went back to the "cancer sticks". After that I tried the lozenge--like the gum I had some success in stopping smoking and since I didn't have to chew it I considered it an improvement, but once again I was smoking after a few months. Next I tried hypnotherapy--which was shockingly effective...for a couple weeks. The hypnotherapy had the unexpected benefit of giving me a renewed self-confidence that I could overcome the addiction, but once that feeling started wear off, smoke once again found its way into my lungs.

Approximately one year ago I came across a mall kiosk selling a new "gadget" that I'd never seen before. As a bit of a gadget-hound it was particularly appealing to me and I shelled out several hundred dollars to try it. I did not expect to quit smoking, but figured that if I could at least reduce the number of cigarettes I was smoking, surely it would be an improvement, and all the better if I actually managed to stop smoking completely. Unfortunately, I misplaced the expensive gadget from the mall, but my interest was piqued so I began doing research online and eventually found an "electronic cigarette" that was more affordable...and considerably more effective. I was still not planning or expecting to quit smoking, but within a few days of using the personal vaporizer, my sense of taste and smell began to return and cigarette smoking became repulsive. Basically, I came to the realization that I had already quit smoking...by accident!

Right now, I am continuing to use nicotine even though most of the withdrawal symptoms have subsided at it seems to help me cope with the symptoms of ADHD. I appreciate that I can use my e-cigarette to wean myself of nicotine if and when I choose while continuing to enjoy relatively harmless vapor whenever the urge to smoke rears its ugly head. In the meantime, I have eliminated all "tars", I don't stink of stale smoke, I have my sense of taste and smell back, I am regaining my lung capacity, my blood pressure is returning to normal, and most importantly I am no longer exposing myself or my family to deadly sidestream, first or second-hand smoke.

If you are truly concerned about smoking & health, rather than attempt to ban electronic cigarettes, I do not understand why you would not encourage current smokers to consider reducing the harm they do to themselves and their loved ones through the use of smoke-free products like those marketed as "electronic cigarettes". If you have concerns about these products, I would be happy to hear them as there is a lot of misinformation floating around: For example, you may be under the impression that e-cigarettes were found to be as dangerous as traditional cigarettes because of the recent FDA study on products by Smoking Everywhere and Njoy (two companies that have a pending lawsuit against the FDA). However, a close inspection of the actual report reveals that trace levels of tobacco related nitrosamines found in e-cigarette cartridges are of the same type and concentration as those found in FDA approved NRT products like Nicoderm CQ.

Thank you very much for your time. I hope that you will seriously reconsider your stance on these issues, and I encourage you to consider joining me in support of reduced harm products for adults who are otherwise unable or unwilling to stop smoking.

With Respect,
Thad Marney
Board of Directors, Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association (CASAA)
 

closetrockstar

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2009
40
0
West Falls Ny
There is so much to say about PV'S, I never know exactly how to put it in order of importance. Anyhow, here's my letter:

Dear Senators,
I am astounded at the misinformation that has recently been spread about the electronic "cigarette". I would have given my right arm to be able to quit smoking tobacco. There isn't a product on the market I haven't tried; several times, at great cost. I have been a smoker from the time I was 13, I am now 52. My mother, father and all six of my siblings were smokers. I haven't had a tobacco cigarette since June 2009. I am still pinching myself to make sure I'm not dreaming that I really have quit smoking!
How can it be that something we KNOW will kill us is totally legal, yet now that there is FINALLY something that in my estimation nothing short of a miracle, that is hugely successful and the powers that be are trying to equate it with smoking tobacco? And, we who have successfully given up "smoking" are to be put in the same catagory. Please, educate yourself about this product. You must have smokers among your friends and family that you would like to see stop, or even you yourself.
I can only surmise that this rediculousness is for one reason only, money.
Please don't take this right away from us, I DO NOT want to go back to smoking.

Thank you for your time.



 

oldlady

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 7, 2009
209
3
Charleston, SC
Here is my letter:

I am writing in reference to S3053 on electronic cigarettes. I would like to know where you stand on this bill. I am strongly opposed to it in its current form. Although I support restricting the age of sales of e-cigarettes and related liquid to individuals over the age of 18, I STRONGLY oppose including it under the indoor clean air act as these devices do not produce smoke.

Please see the link below for the position recently taken by the American Association of Public Health Physicians on this topic.

American Association of Public Health Physicians writes on behalf of Electronic Cigarettes to the Incoming Director of the FDA | Electronic Cigarettes by Instead E-Cigarette

Also, linked for further information, are some recent reports by Dr. Michael Seigel, a specialist in preventive medicine and public health at the Boston University School of Public Health

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary
 

HippyGirl

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 30, 2009
407
4
Alabama
I highly doubt anyone here has the same opinion as I do about this. I don't think doing this in public places is the greatest route. First of all discretion and common sense should be used. If something passes that allows vaporizing anywhere.. we are going to have aszhats pissing people off.

Even though I vaporize, I would never do it in line at a fast food place or in a restaurant. I would never do it in front of children (I don't in front of my own). I feel as if it promotes usage of an addictive substance. I will probably not be visiting this thread again as I am sure I will be getting flamed left and right.

Its just an opinion, and I will keep hold of it. You should have yours too. I don't mind.

I completely agree! Why is it SO necessary for anyone to be able to vape where they would not normally be permitted to smoke???

I've heard all of the "rights" based arguments, but come on! The fact of the matter is this...most of those who are so vehemently opposed to smoking will NEVER accept vaping...IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE SMOKING REGULAR CIGS and is perceived by most of them as though we are trying to "get around" no-smoking laws.

I don't give one hoot about being able to vape at my desk or in the checkout line at the market...I just want to be able to satisfy my need/desire for nicotine AND stay off analogs. This is the ONLY thing I have ever tried that has allowed me to do so in the 35+ years I've smoked.

Sorry, but, IMO, vaping where smoking would not normally be permitted does NOT help our cause.

There...if there's any flaming to be done, I'm with you.

Sherry
 

skydragon

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 7, 2009
11,551
7,998
Mountain Cave
So according to the first article, Vitale's whole supporting argument basically comes down to, "According to a 2009 statement by Health Canada, the Canadian federal government agency with regulatory jurisdiction over health issues, inhaling propylene glycol is a known irritant.”

Since when does US gov't make legislation based on the findings of foreign agencies? Ugh.

A known irritant. Should it be pointed out to them that they have been proven to be known irritants hence they should be banned.
 

skydragon

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 7, 2009
11,551
7,998
Mountain Cave
I completely agree! Why is it SO necessary for anyone to be able to vape where they would not normally be permitted to smoke???

I've heard all of the "rights" based arguments, but come on! The fact of the matter is this...most of those who are so vehemently opposed to smoking will NEVER accept vaping...IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE SMOKING REGULAR CIGS and is perceived by most of them as though we are trying to "get around" no-smoking laws.

I don't give one hoot about being able to vape at my desk or in the checkout line at the market...I just want to be able to satisfy my need/desire for nicotine AND stay off analogs. This is the ONLY thing I have ever tried that has allowed me to do so in the 35+ years I've smoked.

Sorry, but, IMO, vaping where smoking would not normally be permitted does NOT help our cause.

There...if there's any flaming to be done, I'm with you.

Sherry

Why should those so vehemently opposed to smoking be allowed to tell us what and when we can do it? What gives them any more "rights" than we have? If our government officials want to ban smoking in an outdoor public place I guess that is debatable as to whether they are overstepping their bounds but they have no right what- so-ever to ban smoking in an enclosed business. I say enclosed because it isn't as if smoke is billowing out into the sky forcing everyone to inhale it. Such as our factories etc. It should be up to the business owner and then the consumer can decide if they want to patronize the business or not.
 

ramblingrose

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2009
464
0
New Jersey USA
Your argument doesn't take into account that until recently we were able to smoke at work and in bars, restaurants, etc. Those bans were never completely accepted as reasonable or constitutional by everyone. They stepped on civil liberties, and denied property owners of their rights.

I was never stopped from smoking at work; would have quit if they tried. But my boss and nonsmoking coworkers love that I'm using my PV instead.

Aside from civil liberties, economics is a reason the legislation is damaging. There are employers who are very happy to have vapers sitting at their desks working instead of taking 'smoke breaks' throughout the day.

And bars and restaurants - many of us stopped going when smokers were booted out. My Saturday hangout estimated 90% of his customers smoked. We moved most of our get-togethers to our patios and family rooms, and his business was down over 40%. When I did go out for dinner the pre-dinner cocktail and after dinner coffee were eliminated in favor of a smoke outside. With my e-cig I sit and relax, and pour more money into the economy.

I completely agree! Why is it SO necessary for anyone to be able to vape where they would not normally be permitted to smoke???

I've heard all of the "rights" based arguments, but come on! The fact of the matter is this...most of those who are so vehemently opposed to smoking will NEVER accept vaping...IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE SMOKING REGULAR CIGS and is perceived by most of them as though we are trying to "get around" no-smoking laws.

I don't give one hoot about being able to vape at my desk or in the checkout line at the market...I just want to be able to satisfy my need/desire for nicotine AND stay off analogs. This is the ONLY thing I have ever tried that has allowed me to do so in the 35+ years I've smoked.

Sorry, but, IMO, vaping where smoking would not normally be permitted does NOT help our cause.

There...if there's any flaming to be done, I'm with you.

Sherry
 

kristin

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Aug 16, 2009
10,448
21,120
CASAA - Wisconsin
casaa.org
I completely agree! Why is it SO necessary for anyone to be able to vape where they would not normally be permitted to smoke???
Did you read my letter? I QUIT smoking and forcing me to go sit with the smokers, just because I am using an e-cig, is a reported danger to MY health. I started using e-cigs to get AWAY from tobacco smoke.

Aside from that, if vapers are forced to be out with the smokers, the current misconception that vapor is just as bad as smoke will be reinforced, making e-cigs even less likely to be accepted as a safer alternative. Banning vaping indoors implies that vaping is unsafe and that will make it harder for vapers everywhere.

It has nothing to do with being able to vape in Walmart. You need to look at the larger picture and it's ramifications.
 

Katmar

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
  • Sep 19, 2009
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    Tranquility, R. I.
    kristin,
    I admire your spunk and logic. And, mostly, what you are doing on behalf of all of us.
    Plus, I see an awful lot of people from WI in here. And you all seem to be proactive. Kudos to WI., but please don't ask me to root for the Packers!!
    I AM rooting for you and us to have a world where smoking no longer exists and people live better and longer.
     
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