PMTAs - who is doing what?

[HigherStateD]

I've been down to 18mg for the last 2 years. I wish I could ditch it all together but I don't think so. I still get cravings vaping 18.

I haven't seen any reports of how effective vaping CBD actually is. I know sublingual is much better than pills or gummies. It doesn't survive the stomach very well but vaping may do pretty good, who knows.

It's not so much the effects of the CBD the vape is designed for, but the entourage effect. The flavors are part and parcel with the effects one experiences. Vape is the best system for this, but e-cig vape gear is not efficient at this, for reasons that are, getting off topic. The reason I mentioned the 510 tech is that I find it more agreeable than trying to find a good adjustable wattage 510 flashlight, as temperature control is a must with that tech, among other similarities.

 

[zoiDman]

Funny, hops and weed taste the same. They're the closest genetic relatives. Speaking of, does the pmta cover weed vape gear? A LOT of that stuff utilizes 510 tech. Might just be a work around. " I swear officer, it's not for nicotine, it's for weed!"

I've wondered for some time if CBD labeling on packaging would be a work around. The number of vape vendors picking up CBD options suggest it may be a possibility. If the "intended use" is for CBD, who knows?

There is No Doubt that the Deeming Rule Set will be Testing in this regard.

It is all is going to come down to how well a Companies Lawyers can argue that something is Not a "Component or Part" of a Tobacco Product.

Go to this link...

https://www.fda.gov/media/97664/download

and then search the PDF for this phrase... any product that is intended or reasonably expected to be used

So by the phrasing of the Deeming Rule Set, and by the Implicit naming of "Atomizers" and "Batteries" (FDA Lingo for what we call a Mod) in this FDA Guidance, I would say it is going to be a Very Uphill Battle to take a run-of-the-mill RDA or RTA or Mod and just Slap a "For THC Only' sticker on it and have it be good to go.

But something like a AIO Dry Herb Vaporizer might not even raise an eyebrow to Mitch Zeller and his Happy Ban of THR Haters.

Or to Whoever is sitting at Mitch Zeller's desk if He get's the Boot on January 21st. 2021.

 

[HigherStateD]

There is No Doubt that the Deeming Rule Set will be Testing in this regard.

It is all is going to come down to how well a Companies Lawyers can argue that something is Not a "Component or Part" of a Tobacco Product.

Go to this link...

https://www.fda.gov/media/97664/download

and then search the PDF for this phrase... any product that is intended or reasonably expected to be used

So by the phrasing of the Deeming Rule Set, and by the Implicit naming of "Atomizers" and "Batteries" (FDA Lingo for what we call a Mod) in this FDA Guidance, I would say it is going to be a Very Uphill Battle to take a run-of-the-mill RDA or RTA or Mod and just Slap a "For THC Only' sticker on it and have it be good to go.

But something like a Dry Herb Vaporizer might not even raise an eyebrow to Mitch Zeller and his Happy Ban of THR Haters.

Or to Whoever is sitting at Mitch Zeller's desk if He get's the Boot on January 21st. 2021.

It's going to be a cat and mouse game for sure, and much like Nascar and other prohibition silver linings, I expect there to be some great inovations that come out of it, that we in the states won't see until after the dust settles at the end of this particular prohibition.

 

[zoiDman]

It's going to be a cat and mouse game for sure, and much like Nascar and other prohibition silver linings, I expect there to be some great inovations that come out of it, that we in the states won't see until after the dust settles at the end of this particular prohibition.

Yeah... And think How Many People will Never Quit Smoking (or will go Back to Smoking) because they Can't Buy the type of things that We have Bought for Years.

For a Country that likes to say it is the Most Advance Country in the World, we sure seem to have Rectal Cranium Inversion when it comes to THR.

 

[HigherStateD]

Yeah... And think How Many People will Never Quit Smoking (or will go Back to Smoking) because they Can't Buy the type of things that We have Bought for Years.

For a Country that like to say it is the Most Advance Country in the World, we sure seem to have Rectal Cranium Inversion when it comes to THR.

THR?

 

[Territoo]

THR= Tobacco Harm Reduction

 

[HigherStateD]

THR= Tobacco Harm Reduction

Ahh, not the only reason this country needs a rectal craniotomy...

 

[DaveP]

I started vaping mostly without flavorings a couple of years ago and found that it's not necessary to have flavor to get satisfaction from the vape. Occasionally, I mix up a flavor and add a little to a tank of unflavored, but it's mostly the inhale and exhale of low level nic that satisfies. I've been at 3mg nic strength for several years, down from 24mg in preparation for a ban. Lifetime nic base is in the freezer at 0 degrees F.

You'd think that the FDA would be happy for smokers to switch. As far as teenagers go, states were happy to leave alcohol on the market with a simple 18-21 age requirement depending on the state. Why not for nicotine vapes, which isn't a health problem compared to alcohol or smoking?

 

[stols001]

Some people are waking up. My sis (Portland, OR) has begun to show distinct displeasure at what is going on. She was SO FOR the stay at home order but the kids have to homeschool again and everyone is hating it. So she is talking about the schizophrenic effect of like, some areas creating "pockets of natural immunity" which is "probably a good thing." LOL. She must have forgotten the 50 times I told her with this virus, natural herd immunity was the ONLY way to go and we could CREATE jobs to like, protect the high risk.

I am gonna email her back soon because if there is NOTHING I like more than being right but also, like, I have some suggestions on some protest marches she and my niece could go on that aren't in support of communism.

Anna

 

[rosesense]

I am amazed that some folks are still surprised at all this. It is all about money and politics, if there was a cure for cancer tomorrow, unless the gov could get money or major political backing for something, it would not be on the market to save lives. Sorry to be a downer but I worked in a government job long enough to not be surprised by any of this.

 

[sofarsogood]

May be the FDA is rationalizing they can reduce vaping to an unpleasant medicine-like product like patches. Desparate smokers will only want to use ecigs until they've stopped smoking then move on to a glorious vape and smoke free future. Problem is, this doesn't work with patches. Most people relapse even if they manage to stop smoking for a while. The medicine approach won't work with vaping any better--same problem. The only way to insure I never go back to smoking is too keep vaping. If I can vape I wouldn't go back to smoking even if I was magically immune to the health problems and cigs were free. Vaping is simply better. A lot of vapers would say the same. (I keep snus on hand, Skoal Regular mint, has its uses but no substitute for ecigs.)

 

[thanswr1]

Call me crazy, but I really don't see an entire industry shutting down on September 9th at midnight. My best guess tells me the FDA never intended for things to get to this point. Some standards and regulation which many vapers favor. But not this.

I could be wrong and September 9th will be a doozy. Especially in an election year.

 

[HigherStateD]

Call me crazy, but I really don't see an entire industry shutting down on September 9th at midnight. My best guess tells me the FDA never intended for things to get to this point. Some standards and regulation which many vapers favor. But not this.

I could be wrong and September 9th will be a doozy. Especially in an election year.

It's definitely going to be more than the y2k issue, as I don't see any US or Canadian companies doing anything that could even be remotely construed as a violation. As for Chinese companies, I know fasttech has a "discrete packaging" option... Sooooooo....

 

[puffon]

Call me crazy, but I really don't see an entire industry shutting down on September 9th at midnight. My best guess tells me the FDA never intended for things to get to this point. Some standards and regulation which many vapers favor. But not this.

I could be wrong and September 9th will be a doozy. Especially in an election year.

I'm getting the same feeling. It will be business as usual Sept. 10.
Online vendors will wait and see what the FDA will do. Warning letters? Fines? Customs intervention?
I'm not seeing big vendors running "going out of business" hardware sales.
In fact, many are announcing new product arrivals.
With only 20 days to go, I'd expect they would be dumping inventory ASAP.
Time will tell...Be prepared regardless.

 

[HigherStateD]

I'm getting the same feeling. It will be business as usual Sept. 10.
Online vendors will wait and see what the FDA will do. Warning letters? Fines? Customs intervention?
I'm not seeing big vendors running "going out of business" hardware sales.
In fact, many are announcing new product arrivals.
With only 20 days to go, I'd expect they would be dumping inventory ASAP.
Time will tell...Be prepared regardless.

Their inventory will most likely be unloaded overseas.

 

[puffon]

Their inventory will most likely be unloaded overseas.

Maybe.
Really if the FDA wants to shut everything down (hardware) they won't have to go after individual US vendors. Just do like they did in 2010 and seize large shipments at the border.
Remaining inventories will dry up. No inventory...No businesses...
Not sure if a big vendor like MVS, MFS etc. can survive selling the few E-juices and hardware that submitted a PMTA.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Their inventory will most likely be unloaded overseas.

Overseas vapers buy largely from local and Chinese vendors.

So they already have access to product with reasonable shipping costs. It would not be worth buying from the USA unless they need a hard-to-find item that local vendors don't have, and there's not enough of a market for that to keep a business profitable/viable.

Also, because of TPD, it would be illegal to import or export non-TPD products so few, if any, will take those risks seeing how those buyers have access to those products already, with reasonable shipping rates.

 

[stols001]

Um I somehow thing US customs knows FT has a "discreet" packaging option also.

No way am I buying from China until reports start trickling in from October.

I mean, if you get a "we intercepted your package" and we sent it back letter, and you are out some money that's annoying and bad, but worth consideration if you really NEED something.

If you get a hefty fine and or whatever else, no thank you. I don't think the FDA has made that clear. I could be wrong IDK.

Anna

 

[HigherStateD]

Um I somehow thing US customs knows FT has a "discreet" packaging option also.

No way am I buying from China until reports start trickling in from October.

I mean, if you get a "we intercepted your package" and we sent it back letter, and you are out some money that's annoying and bad, but worth consideration if you really NEED something.

If you get a hefty fine and or whatever else, no thank you. I don't think the FDA has made that clear. I could be wrong IDK.

Anna

I have gotten such letters in the past. They don't return the parcel, they destroy it.

Not the one I got specifically, but it read the same

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I have gotten such letters in the past. They don't return the parcel, they destroy it.

For vape packages? If so, was the reason because the customs form lied about the contents? Were these packages from Fasttech? About when was this?