Police officers need to be educated on Vaping!
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In Philly, the officers know what it is. My Hubby works right across the street, in Center City, from a police station and I often walk with him home. We usually converse with one of his coworkers right outside his office building. Several times officers have gotten into their cars right next to me while I'm vaping away. I have never been bothered and I use a Twist with a 3.5 Vivi Nova tank which looks nothing like a cig-a-like.
It probably depends on where you live whether the LEO know what vaping is.
It probably depends on where you live whether the LEO know what vaping is.
AMEN!!! Having been a public school teacher for 8 years and a law enforcement agent for 5, I can definitely relate to that!! However, that's why I got advanced degrees and became a college professor. Teaching is a calling! If you ask a teacher why they became a teacher, they sure won't tell you it was for the money
AMEN!!! Having been a public school teacher for 8 years and a law enforcement agent for 5, I can definitely relate to that!! However, that's why I got advanced degrees and became a college professor. Teaching is a calling! If you ask a teacher why they became a teacher, they sure won't tell you it was for the money
the teachers here(fl ) top out at 74,000. in va, some counties top at 128,000,with only a 10 % difference in cost of living .how the female pop takes this is unreal. and when the say an officers job is dangerous is odd, a construction workers job has more deaths that an officers.Pay for smarts just does not add up.
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To briefly digress.... both occupations deserve much more respect than they get, couldn't agree more. Kudos to u for braving each field DoctorJ 
Teachers teach for the OUTCOME not for the Income!
my wife is going to think that comes from me , ty( I am a thief)
When you joined the forum, these are the rules that are clearly posted and you accepted.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html
9.3 Discussion or mention of illegal/illicit drugs or sexual content.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ation/255864-why-we-dont-allow-drug-talk.html
If you have an issue with that or find them ridiculous, feel free to find a forum that doesn't have those rules.
I haven't heard a story yet of any of us winding up in the hoosegow for vaping, so I guess the police aren't doing a bad job at all--fully educated in vaping or not.
I'm sure that as vaping becomes more popular the education will naturally happen. Either formalized, or just by general knowledge. I know that the same is true for those 'less than legal' devices--but any formal training about those should surely cover our far more numerous legitimate devices too.
I hope and expect that our greater numbers and our general appearance as law-abiding citizens (at least from who I've met) will win out and keep vaping from being an instant cause of suspicion. As was said on page one, beer and soda both come in cans, and we don't get pulled over for drinking our cokes in the car.
I'm sure that as vaping becomes more popular the education will naturally happen. Either formalized, or just by general knowledge. I know that the same is true for those 'less than legal' devices--but any formal training about those should surely cover our far more numerous legitimate devices too.
I hope and expect that our greater numbers and our general appearance as law-abiding citizens (at least from who I've met) will win out and keep vaping from being an instant cause of suspicion. As was said on page one, beer and soda both come in cans, and we don't get pulled over for drinking our cokes in the car.
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This. I DJ occasionally, mainly to older crowds but recently played an art-opening in another city where much of the crowd seemed under 21. Usually when I get questions about my ego, it's either "hey is that an e-cig" or "what is that?". But at this event, in one night, I had at least 5 different people ask me if my pv was a particular name that I won't mention here. I assumed that it was just some e-cig brand I hadn't heard of, but a subsequent internet search discovered that it was exactly what Amish Ed cited above.
My worry is that this type of product will grab the attention of some media outlet, be blown out of proportion and just be another weapon that anti-vapes can use against the industry. Hopefully not though
I've had comments in my circle of friends. Not repeatable as they violate the forum rules. May want to join CASAA. They are our advocates. Education is our best defense right now. The more people who know what it really is the better. People fear things they do not understand.
I also have thought out a lot of questions or comment people may make and I had responses thought out so I don't make a flip comment or sound condescending. Take a possibly bad situation and turn it into a lesson in PV 101.
I also have thought out a lot of questions or comment people may make and I had responses thought out so I don't make a flip comment or sound condescending. Take a possibly bad situation and turn it into a lesson in PV 101.
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To briefly digress.... both occupations deserve much more respect than they get, couldn't agree more. Kudos to u for braving each field DoctorJ
No "profession" deserves respect.
PEOPLE deserve respect, IF they earn it.
A uniform, a badge, a degree, or a title do NOT automatically confer respect, authority or superiority.
But a good attitude, a dedication to service, empathy and compassion and genuine bravery, honor and integrity do.
I treat ANYONE I do not know with the same level of common courtesy and respect that I would with people I hold in high regard--UNTIL they prove to me that they deserve otherwise...
StereoDreamer:8023420 said:To briefly digress.... both occupations deserve much more respect than they get, couldn't agree more. Kudos to u for braving each field DoctorJ
No "profession" deserves respect.
PEOPLE deserve respect, IF they earn it.
A uniform, a badge, a degree, or a title do NOT automatically confer respect, authority or superiority.
But a good attitude, a dedication to service, empathy and compassion and genuine bravery, honor and integrity do.
I treat ANYONE I do not know with the same level of common courtesy and respect that I would with people I hold in high regard--UNTIL they prove to me that they deserve otherwise...
Excellent post.
I don't want anyone to take my previous logn post about LEOs the wrong way. I am NOT "cop-bashing". I hold many LEOs in exceedingly high regard. I used to write training manuals for cops. I used to do research and equipment certification for the US DOJ. I have a tremendous respect for good LEOs.
But I am not delusional or naive.
I have only had a few negative interactions with LEOs, and they were all resolved very quickly--either by knowing my rights and standing my ground, or by just going along and then going over the offending officer's head to correct their errors. I am fortunate to have a background in LE, and to have a pretty good understanding of the law on many subjects due to my profession and my personal interests. I am also very fortunate to be the kind of person who can stand my ground unyieldingly without raising my voice, assuming aggressive body language or freaking out.
LEOs are being trained these days that ALL citizens are potential "enemies"--of cops, of the State, and of the Republic in general. We need to be able to show them--through knowledge, confidence, politeness and kindness--that we are NOT their enemies, and that we'd appreciate it if they didn't TRY to be ours. And the BEST way to do that is to KNOW the law in your jurisdiction, and to be capable of quickly, calmly and authoritatively stating your case.
And if you cant do all those things, you need to get the business card of a good lawyer and keep it in your wallet, and just refuse to speak without your attorney present--which is a fundamental right that they CANNOT refuse.
There are FOUR rules to successfully dealing with LEOs:
1) Never volunteer any information--cops are not in the business of "friendly conversation". ANY time an LEO talks to you he is "fishing". Even if you have done nothing wrong, most people like to blabber, and given enough talk-time, MOST people--even the most law-abiding, pure-as-the-driven-snow, innocent people--will say something that implicates them in SOMETHING illegal or suspicious.
2) Never show an ID unless you are required to do so by law. Just because a cop asks you for an ID doesn't mean you have to provide it (in most states). The Federal courts have ruled in several precedent-setting cases that "requirements for ID" are unconstitutional and a violation of your civil rights. Only about half the states require you produce an ID anytime you are asked, and most of them ONLY require you produce an ID during a "Terry Stop" or if you are being arrested. "Consensual interactions" do not confer the requirement to identify on demand in most states. KNOW THE LAW where you live.
Are you required to produce ID if a cop demands it? | Pixiq
3) ..... Answer with monosyllables. "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" should be sufficient to answer 99% of the questions an LEO will pose to you. If an answer requires more than that, they are probably "fishing", AND they are probably treading VERY close to violating your rights.
4) NEVER give consent to a search--of your vehicle, your bags, or your person. If they have to ask you for consent, they don't hav probable cause, and therefore they are "fishing". Once you give consent to a search, ANYTHING they find--even if they put it there--will be used against you.
In the "Miranda Rights" they say:
Go back and read that again, and understand what that line REALLY means.
What it means is that there is NOTHING you can say that will be used in your favor in court.
For instance, if your wife was having a baby, and you were speeding to get her to the hospital in your car, and a cop pulled you over and asked you if you knew why he pulled you over, and you answered "Because I was speeding", and then proceeded to explain that your wife's water had broke, and you were rushing her to the hospital to deliver her baby, in court, the cop will tell the judge that you CONFESSED to speeding. He will NOT say why. He will NOT give the extenuating circumstances. He will NOT mention that there was an infant pushing it's way out of your wife's birth canal onto the back seat. Because "anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you...
Watch this video--and then watch it again and again until you REALLY understand it and it becomes part of your being. Because the ONLY way we can retain our rights is by KNOWING them, and JEALOUSLY guarding them:
But I am not delusional or naive.
I have only had a few negative interactions with LEOs, and they were all resolved very quickly--either by knowing my rights and standing my ground, or by just going along and then going over the offending officer's head to correct their errors. I am fortunate to have a background in LE, and to have a pretty good understanding of the law on many subjects due to my profession and my personal interests. I am also very fortunate to be the kind of person who can stand my ground unyieldingly without raising my voice, assuming aggressive body language or freaking out.
LEOs are being trained these days that ALL citizens are potential "enemies"--of cops, of the State, and of the Republic in general. We need to be able to show them--through knowledge, confidence, politeness and kindness--that we are NOT their enemies, and that we'd appreciate it if they didn't TRY to be ours. And the BEST way to do that is to KNOW the law in your jurisdiction, and to be capable of quickly, calmly and authoritatively stating your case.
And if you cant do all those things, you need to get the business card of a good lawyer and keep it in your wallet, and just refuse to speak without your attorney present--which is a fundamental right that they CANNOT refuse.
There are FOUR rules to successfully dealing with LEOs:
1) Never volunteer any information--cops are not in the business of "friendly conversation". ANY time an LEO talks to you he is "fishing". Even if you have done nothing wrong, most people like to blabber, and given enough talk-time, MOST people--even the most law-abiding, pure-as-the-driven-snow, innocent people--will say something that implicates them in SOMETHING illegal or suspicious.
2) Never show an ID unless you are required to do so by law. Just because a cop asks you for an ID doesn't mean you have to provide it (in most states). The Federal courts have ruled in several precedent-setting cases that "requirements for ID" are unconstitutional and a violation of your civil rights. Only about half the states require you produce an ID anytime you are asked, and most of them ONLY require you produce an ID during a "Terry Stop" or if you are being arrested. "Consensual interactions" do not confer the requirement to identify on demand in most states. KNOW THE LAW where you live.
Are you required to produce ID if a cop demands it? | Pixiq
3) ..... Answer with monosyllables. "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" should be sufficient to answer 99% of the questions an LEO will pose to you. If an answer requires more than that, they are probably "fishing", AND they are probably treading VERY close to violating your rights.
4) NEVER give consent to a search--of your vehicle, your bags, or your person. If they have to ask you for consent, they don't hav probable cause, and therefore they are "fishing". Once you give consent to a search, ANYTHING they find--even if they put it there--will be used against you.
In the "Miranda Rights" they say:
Go back and read that again, and understand what that line REALLY means.
What it means is that there is NOTHING you can say that will be used in your favor in court.
For instance, if your wife was having a baby, and you were speeding to get her to the hospital in your car, and a cop pulled you over and asked you if you knew why he pulled you over, and you answered "Because I was speeding", and then proceeded to explain that your wife's water had broke, and you were rushing her to the hospital to deliver her baby, in court, the cop will tell the judge that you CONFESSED to speeding. He will NOT say why. He will NOT give the extenuating circumstances. He will NOT mention that there was an infant pushing it's way out of your wife's birth canal onto the back seat. Because "anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you...
Watch this video--and then watch it again and again until you REALLY understand it and it becomes part of your being. Because the ONLY way we can retain our rights is by KNOWING them, and JEALOUSLY guarding them:
I too have been approached by people who are clearly not interested in vaping nic. My fear as Sa Da Tay pointed out, is that it could possibly cause future problems for us.
Indeed stereo, however I was clarifying that this thread wasn't to disrespect LEOs
Yeah, like a guy rolling his own ciggies with a tin of Drum and a pack of Rizla papers should expect "problems", or like a guy buying brass screens in a hardware store for his sink should expect "problems"...
If what YOU are doing is legal, then it should not be a problem for ANYONE else--other citizens, Mall security guards, LEOs, whoever. Legal is legal. Just because someone is ignorant or uneducated does not make their paranoid suspicions legitimate, relevant or actionable.
If people are that worried about being accused of doing something illegal when they are "open vaping" in public, then either:
1) don't vape in public, or
2) learn the laws and your rights and be prepared to politely articulate and defend them, or
3) get the business card of a good criminal defense lawyer in your area and carry it in your wallet and have his/her number on speed-dial on your cell phone...
If people want to use their ignorance as an excuse for some sort of confrontation, they will do it, no matter HOW legit you are.
There are three ways to approach this sort of situation:
1) ignore them and walk away, or
2) attempt to educate them about vaping, and use it as an opportunity to convert a smoker or at the very least educate and "win the heart and mind" of a non-smoker, or
3) tell them in no uncertain (but polite) terms that you are not doing anything wrong, and if they wish to continue slandering and defaming you, they can speak with your attorney about whether or not they want to just settle out of court on a slander and defamation of character case, or whether they would like it to go to trial, if they persist. Having an attorney's card to flash will drive the point home that you are serious. Playing the "lawyer card" will usually shut up even the most ignorant busy-body... ;-)
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