Possible divorce ban in CA

[Thyestean]

I think a lot of people wouldn't really care if they didn't call it "marriage". To most of the country, and especially the conservatives, the term marriage is a vow before God. Christianity is the dominant form of religion in this country, and does not allow for homosexuality. I think that's where some of the problem comes from. Of course some people just want to push their beliefs onto others, conservatives and liberals alike.

Statements like that one just show the hypocrisy of people involved in organized religion.

"God loves everyone" "All your sins will be forgiven" "Love thy neighbor"

"Don't try to belittle my beliefs or flaunt your disbelief around me but make sure you answer your door when I come knocking and try to push my way into your house to force my beliefs on you"

"Oh but don't do anything we don't like and make sure you learn to believe everything we say as indisputable fact or you're going to hell for sure"

(insert huge eyerolling emoticon here)

 

[Travis798]

You can read the full article Don't Blame Black Voters: The Obama Non-Effect | Election 2008 | ReligionDispatches.

As far as blacks being closeted, I learned what gay was when I was 8. My drag queen cousin asked if I knew why he wore make-up?

I've grown up in a small southern towns and New York City. Gays in smaller cities have a tendency to be more closeted, while gays in larger cities have a tendency to be less closeted.

You can further break this down by age, income, religion, etc.



Nope, when you have poster of him dressed up as a witch doctor or in white face, then you're exhibiting racist behavior. Just disagreeing with him doesn't qualify or I'd be kicked out of the club for sure.



Well, you did kinda flip it out of the deck like a Vegas dealer.



How many blacks are being interviewed? And how many do you see talking against it who don't have a Rev. in front of their names?

Blacks are a minority in this country. There are much fewer blacks than there are Hispanics or Whites. Blacks voting in a block, unless there are many more people who support the cause, whether it's electing Obama or passing Prop 8, simply wont cut it.

Just my 2 cents.

I've grown up in a small southern towns and New York City. Gays in smaller cities have a tendency to be more closeted, while gays in larger cities have a tendency to be less closeted.

You can further break this down by age, income, religion, etc.

Well I live in a small community with no blacks and nowhere near a major city, so my experience is limited. I do however work around the country, and I have worked with black people that have stated they do not like Obama, but admit to voting for him anyway because he is black, and they did not feel they would get another chance to see a black president in their lifetime. That is how I came to my conclusions.

Well, you did kinda flip it out of the deck like a Vegas dealer.

Only to prove what I feel is a valid point, again based on my knowledge from very limited experience. Every time I turn on the TV, it seems someone is calling me a racist because I am white and do not like Obama.

How many blacks are being interviewed? And how many do you see talking against it who don't have a Rev. in front of their names?

Blacks are a minority in this country. There are much fewer blacks than there are Hispanics or Whites. Blacks voting in a block, unless there are many more people who support the cause, whether it's electing Obama or passing Prop 8, simply wont cut it.

The minority vote is now the most targeted voting block. I've worked with a lot of Mexicans and I have yet to meet one of them that are outright in support of gay marriage. That experience is much less limited, based upon the very large number I have worked with and gotten to know over the years. Granted, a very large majority of them were not legal and couldn't vote anyway unless ACORN got them registered.

I never said that the black vote was the sole reason for passing prop 8, but I still think it was a factor. I admire them for that too. They went to the polls and voted for something they believed in, which is what they were encouraged to do. I'm not for gay marriage, but I'm also not against it in the position of having the Government stick their nose in yet another faucet of our personal lives.

 

[mudmanc4]

just a side note, I don't think I have seen a thread anywhere , ever, cover so many confrontational subjects in this short amount of posts LMAO !

 

[Thyestean]

just a side note, I don't think I have seen a thread anywhere , ever, cover so many confrontational subjects in this short amount of posts LMAO !

true.

and along those lines.... my apologies to the OP for the OT post. I won't reply further on the matter.

 

[Travis798]

Statements like that one just show the hypocrisy of people involved in organized religion.

"God loves everyone" "All your sins will be forgiven" "Love thy neighbor"

"Don't try to belittle my beliefs or flaunt your disbelief around me but make sure you answer your door when I come knocking and try to push my way into your house to force my beliefs on you"

"Oh but don't do anything we don't like and make sure you learn to believe everything we say as indisputable fact or you're going to hell for sure"

(insert huge eyerolling emoticon here)

My statement was simply to make a point. Although I do believe in God, I do not actively practice in organized religion. I do believe in heaven and hell, and I do believe that sins will be forgiven. The kicker to that is sins will only be forgiven if you are truly remorseful, which means you no longer practice that sin.

I don't force my beliefs on anybody, as I myself question them at times. I can't adopt a holier than thou attitude because hey, I drink, I smoke, errr vape now, I try to practice fornication but it doesn't happen as often as I'd like, I wouldn't know what to do without porn and I cuss like a sailor. I'm not in a position to preach to anybody.

 

[Valkerie]

just a side note, I don't think I have seen a thread anywhere , ever, cover so many confrontational subjects in this short amount of posts LMAO !

What I like is that we weren't rude to each other.

 

[Travis798]

just a side note, I don't think I have seen a thread anywhere , ever, cover so many confrontational subjects in this short amount of posts LMAO !

Sorry, my fault. I'm a debater. Although.... we haven't gotten that OT, since the topic it went to relates to the original topic.... errr.. I think? who knows...

need..... more.... nicotine.....

 

[Luv2CUSmile]

Travis,

Just so you understand, We appear to be on the same side of the issue. It is a risky move though, to generalize a statement like that. If you said, "Most of the black people I know...", or "Many of the black people I have spoke to...", but to outright state "...notoriously...", It throws, as you said, a stereotypical comment towards a said group of people that doesn't apply anymore greatly to them than it would if you said "Whites are notoriously anti-gay..."- A generalization that isn't warranted. In your area of the country, it may be so more than ours... and that is really all that can be claimed.
Again, not to start a debate. I am not an Obama fan for many different reasons. His race has nothing to do with any of those reasons.
It saddens me that, yes, the largest amount of the votes that Obama got were not based on his political standings but the fact that he is black. What does that say about Black America? One of the first elections in history where we did have a major sector of America voting and approx 40% didn't even have any idea of the issues at hand. (my number there btw- no facts) -
& I was not privy to any discussions that went on here in the past, If there was a national poll taken on the black persons views on gay marriage, I missed it. Excuse my ignorance.
Long point, short>>> Just be careful to generalize thoughts and feelings of a group of people.
But, all in all- It doesn't bother me one way or another. I don't see how they are planning to save the "state of marriage" by not allowing gay people to marry. I don't see how a gay person's desire to publicize their love for their partner, and vow for life, has anything to do with heterosexual marriage. Hexx, it can't be to shield the kids... half of TV has gay people on it. All you can do is love your kids, unconditionally. & hope that the government doesn't start telling them how to live when they get older.
Oh! & I believe in impeachment too...

 

[Luv2CUSmile]

Wow! All these posts since I was typing my last post?... LOL
Okay, so we are on the same side of the issue, Travis. I am against the government controlling the way we live our lives. If that means fighting for what is right, then that is what we should all ban together and do.
This time it is the gay marriage issue, next issue will be what religion we practice, and what side of the street we can live on. It has to stop!
Oh! No... the OP's post... the next issue will be controlling the sanctity of marriage. Banning Divorce!?? 8-o OMG! When will it end?! Thank-God we have been married 19 years and still going... (Cheaper to keep her, ya know- j/k)LOL But my parents divorced after 23 years. Their fault they waited until all of us were grown, I don't know what they were waiting on (It was sheer torture to be home some nights and have to listen to the constant bickering)- But they waited and my mom is finally happy with her life! At 59 years old and she is finally happy! I don't believe in divorce for us. But if my husband ever held a hand up to me, cheated w/ some skanky wench, or had a double life... Hey! That's it! Okay, maybe not a secret double life... UNLESS, he was doin' some skanky hoe... LOL
Making light of this now, but as you see how issues can get turned around.
Hopefully, our country won't think to go there. But, the fact that this guy got the signatures necessary is scarey. It just gives our government another notch. Now they know, if you want something done, you just go to the right people and "this too shall pass"...

 

[Travis798]

Wow! All these posts since I was typing my last post?... LOL
Okay, so we are on the same side of the issue, Travis. I am against the government controlling the way we live our lives. If that means fighting for what is right, then that is what we should all ban together and do.
This time it is the gay marriage issue, next issue will be what religion we practice, and what side of the street we can live on. It has to stop!
Oh! No... the OP's post... the next issue will be controlling the sanctity of marriage. Banning Divorce!?? 8-o OMG! When will it end?! Thank-God we have been married 19 years and still going... (Cheaper to keep her, ya know- j/k)LOL But my parents divorced after 23 years. Their fault they waited until all of us were grown, I don't know what they were waiting on (It was sheer torture to be home some nights and have to listen to the constant bickering)- But they waited and my mom is finally happy with her life! At 59 years old and she is finally happy! I don't believe in divorce for us. But if my husband ever held a hand up to me, cheated w/ some skanky wench, or had a double life... Hey! That's it! Okay, maybe not a secret double life... UNLESS, he was doin' some skanky hoe... LOL
Making light of this now, but as you see how issues can get turned around.
Hopefully, our country won't think to go there. But, the fact that this guy got the signatures necessary is scarey. It just gives our government another notch. Now they know, if you want something done, you just go to the right people and "this too shall pass"...

Keep in mind he simply got the green light to start collecting the signatures. He still has to get 700,000 signatures by march to actually qualify for the ballot.

 

[Luv2CUSmile]

Aaah, Gotcha- Wow! Still, I can see every Sunday until March being outside of every Catholic Church and school and filling his petition.
Again, an example of where to rally to get what you want... the "right people" in the right place and Git'r Done...
It's a scarey thought... Not enough non-conformists out there to make a difference... & This is America!

 

[Drunkwaco]

honestly, if this becomes a law I don't think I ever would get married.

I do agree with the fact yes, you should marry someone wisely, but I don't agree with being completely tied down even if things go wrong.

That is why it should be banned.
You shouldn't marry unless your 100% you want to live with this person FOREVER. I would think if the definition of Marry includes "Being tied down even if things go wrong."
Or should I quote “For better or for worse.”

You shouldn’t marry people that are slightly crazy but it hasn’t caused them to be violent yet. Personally they should just do away with marriage all together to many stupid people ruining there life.

 

[ladysolitary85]

That is why it should be banned.
You shouldn't marry unless your 100% you want to live with this person FOREVER. I would think if the definition of Marry includes "Being tied down even if things go wrong."
Or should I quote “For better or for worse.”

You shouldn’t marry people that are slightly crazy but it hasn’t caused them to be violent yet. Personally they should just do away with marriage all together to many stupid people ruining there life.

But then, that's were it goes back to our rights as Americans... the word "Freedom of belief, freedom of speech" you get the hint, comes in. That's why people come here because of all the freedom talk.... which of course could change.

 

[Worutaa]

I had thought about this as well... you have all of these people (a lot of them divorced) opposed to gay marriage because "in the bible..." but if my memory serves me correct, the passage that says something negative about homosexuality is the same that mentions fornicators and adulterers...

Interesting to see someone thought the same way.

 

[LemurCat]

Personally they should just do away with marriage all together to many stupid people ruining there life.

Marriage should be the provenance of religion. Civil unions should be the concern of the government for the purposes of protecting joint property and estates, proper taxation, hereditary recognition of children, and sharing health insurance benefits.

 

[LemurCat]

But then, that's were it goes back to our rights as Americans... the word "Freedom of belief, freedom of speech" you get the hint, comes in. That's why people come here because of all the freedom talk.... which of course could change.

Actually, most came here looking for gold. A lot of others came here because it was their prison sentence.

That whole "Freedom" bit didn't start until well *after* European colonization.

 

[Thyestean]

Marriage should be the provenance of religion. Civil unions should be the concern of the government for the purposes of protecting joint property and estates, proper taxation, hereditary recognition of children, and sharing health insurance benefits.

So by that logic ... everyone should have to go through a strict testing process to make sure they are faithfully religious in order to keep the atheists from getting married?

 

[LemurCat]

So by that logic ... everyone should have to go through a strict testing process to make sure they are faithfully religious in order to keep the atheists from getting married?

That's for the various religions to decide, not the government.

(And if you have any familiarity with Catholicism, I'd say some already do.)

 

[Thyestean]

That's for the various religions to decide, not the government.

(And if you have any familiarity with Catholicism, I'd say some already do.)

But not everyone gets married in a church or by a priest, minister, or any of the other numerous religious "figureheads". People get married in courts, in quickie Vegas weddings, and on boats everyday.

So does that mean that none of these ways to get married should be allowed anymore and that the power to decide the eligibility for marriage should be turned over to religious leaders?



(footnote: I have no vested interest in the gay marriage laws. Hell I'm straight and really have no interest in the straight marriage laws either being that I never plan to be foolish enough to bother. But I do find the ways that people(and yes I mean people in general not just one) try to justify right and wrong to be "interesting".

 

[LemurCat]

But not everyone gets married in a church or by a priest, minister, or any of the other numerous religious "figureheads". People get married in courts, in quickie Vegas weddings, and on boats everyday.

So does that mean that none of these ways to get married should be allowed anymore and that the power to decide the eligibility for marriage should be turned over to religious leaders?

That's not what I said. There is essentially no legal difference between a marriage and a civil union. My sister is the mayor of my township. She performs marriage ceremonies all the time, as well as civil unions for the gay and lesbian community. The words are essentially the same and they essentially ensure the same rights under NJ law. It's just the religious types who get uppity about the semantics and meaning behind the words "marriage" and "civil union".

Marriage is defined as many things, among them a sacrement. The government should have nothing to do with sacrements. Thus my preference for the term "civil union" regardless of who's marrying whom. In many European countries, couples have their relationship recognized by their government through a civil union and then have that union blessed by the church of their choice in a marriage sacrement. And yes, it is within the power of that church to deny someone the sacrement of marriage.

(footnote: I have no vested interest in the gay marriage laws. Hell I'm straight and really have no interest in the straight marriage laws either being that I never plan to be foolish enough to bother. But I do find the ways that people(and yes I mean people in general not just one) try to justify right and wrong to be "interesting".

Totally agree with you there.