Possible Stinky Grommet Replacement

[Trayce]

My PT2 and Aro tanks are shelved because of the nasty taste of the rubber post insulators (grommets). I emailed Kanger tonight asking them to make their new silicone post insulators available as spare parts hoping to replace the stinky rubber ones in ALL my heads, (not just the Kangers but the Aro heads too).

In the meantime I found some medical grade/food grade silicone tubing (heat tolerance to 500F), completely inert, with the exact right ID (as far as I can tell) which is 3/32 inch or 2.3mm. Don't know what the tubing's OD is, but figure I'd give it a try. Just snip a length off the exact length of the grommet, and no more stinky off-gassing and horrid burning-rubber taste! Anyone try this? 3 32" I D Silicone Tubing Temperature Rated to 500F | eBay

Won't receive it until the end of the week but will report back in this thread pronto with the results. If it works well enough it will be cheaper than bagged grommets anyway. One foot of it will make about 50 insulators at a cost of $4.57 (includes shipping), and if you get 2 feet (like I did, the optimist ) it's $6.24 for nearly 100 insulators. Can't wait to try it... miss my PT2 and Aros!

 

[beckdg]

Love it! Subbing for updates and easy reference.

 

[Trayce]

Received the tubing (3 32" I D Silicone Tubing Temperature Rated to 500F | eBay) and so far it works exactly as expected! If a burny rubber grommet flavor is your problem, this should fix it. I took a few pics to share below. INSERT 16hrs LATER: There is an issue with Kanger heads but not Aro heads... see my post #5 below for details. THIS ISSUE RESOLVED ... SEE POST #12

A couple things... the silicone tubing is softer than the stock rubber grommet so takes a little different technique to push it in. Found it is easier if wet. But only takes a sec or two. Also, only need to get it in halfway, which is pretty easy, then slide the pin in, and the sleeve will ride up a hair more and the bottom of it will form the bottom collar. At first I wasn't sure this was good enough but when I looked down through the top, I could indeed see the silicone was up where it belonged in the head, looking quite perfect. So when you're pushing and it doesn't seem to be going in any further, just insert the pin and you're good.

Other point to note... because it's softer, the legs can move easier if tugged on. So if you like to apply tension to the legs and wiggle them back and forth to remove the excess [rather than snipping] only do this with your wrapping implement still in place in the coil.

Finally, the first couple coils I made had a high end wrap after inserting the pin and I had to do them over. I finally realized inserting the pin was pushing the negative leg up just a little, even though I pull it taught beforehand and bend it up along the head bottom. So instead I pulled it up taught and wrapped the excess around the end of the nail holding the coil in place (my wrapping implement). That indeed solved that problem. But to be sure, after inserting the pin - and with the wrapping implement still in place in the coil -- I used needle nose to gently pull each leg to make sure it was taught on the nail and there was no slack introduced from the pin insert. Then snipped away the excess.

Used 30g kanthal and did 7 wraps for all 3 builds, then compressed into micro-coils. 1.9 ohms w/ a sweet spot of about 4.5w. Took it as high as 6.5w just to see and the juice got nasty but no burny grommet taste. (Rebuilt 3 Aro heads which are almost exactly like Kangers except the Kanger has a wider metal collar.) I put one in my PT2, and the other two in my 2 Aro pyrex tanks. All three devices vape divine again! I'm so happy to not have to be dripping all the time.

Also, because I screwed a couple coils up and had to re-do them, I removed the silicone grommet and re-used it and it was not only just a little easier to work in the second time, but taking it in and out didn't seem to cause any wear and tear on it. I thought because it was suppler it might tear taking it in and out, but from what I can tell at this early stage, it looks like they will be pretty tough and good for multiple builds.

Disclaimer: This worked for me but this is just my experience. If your problem is burning silica or burnt juice, this mod won't make a diff. As always YMMV.


Tube next to post and stock grommet.


I wind the neg leg excess around the nail end to keep it taught when inserting the grommet and pin.


Insert pin at this point as the grommet won't go in further and this is all you need.


Good idea to gingerly pull each leg here to make sure the end wraps are still taught.


End result.

 

[Spazmelda]

Well, nice. I ordered some. I'll post my results here if I can find the thread again.

 

[Trayce]

UPDATE NOTE: After I wrote the following post I looked closer at the Kanger head and was wrong about a couple things I said here, and was able to resolve this issue. Kanger heads work fine with the tubing. See post #12 in this thread for details. Leaving the following post for continuity only.

Tonight I built all three heads again as this morning when I put the Aros on the Vamo they each had a wonky resistance reading... like they were 1.9 last night and vaped fine for the short trial time I used them, but this morning the resistance showed like .7 and sort of all over the place. The PT2 was fine this morning and hit great, but took that head apart too as I wanted to look at the grommet since I used that tank for a few hours last night, vaping about 3mls juice. No burn marks on the silicone grommet!

But here's the rub.... when I rebuilt the heads tonight the PT2 was drawing really tight.... like no air flow. After trying several things I finally deduced the problem.... the silicone tubing flares at the bottom with the pin inserted, and that little bottom collar of silicone sits right where the air flow holes are in the PT2 base! D'oh! So the build I made tonight (pic below) happens to be blocking them. The weird thing was the build I made last night didn't affect the draw at all (but figured that out too and will get to that in a sec). You'll notice from the pics the standard rubber grommet is tailored to sort of be real flush so it doesn't "squeeze out" and block those holes.

Now this isn't a problem with the Aro tanks at all. Then I realized I must have been using an Aro head ( Smoktech ARO/Tumbler Coil Heads ) in the PT2 last night because I happened to remember that when I first started using Aro's in the PT2 way back when, the pin on the head sat lower in the PT2 base than the Kanger head-pin sits, like almost protruding out of the base, but not quite; whereas with the Kangers, the pin sits JUST up inside the base bottom.

Bottom line, the Aro head sits JUST LOW ENOUGH in the PT2 base that the protruding silicone tubing doesn't line up with the air holes! The air holes are just a little higher than where the silicone collar sits.

I only happen to discover this on a fluke as I don't even use Kanger heads, but do have a few and just happen to pick one up out of my jar to rebuild tonight, not realizing it was even a Kanger until this happened.

I'm sure some kind of mod could overcome this problem, but I won't be working that one out since I prefer Aro heads anyway. But be advised this will most likely be a problem for anyone who wants to use Kanger heads, unless you like a REAAAALLY tight draw! I'm very sorry to anyone who might have bought the tubing already, and wouldn't have, had they known.

Also, don't know why the resistance was wonky on the Aros. So far tonight's builds are reading consistent (and this silicone did say it could be used for electrical shielding so that isn't the problem). I must have had something off in the builds.

Will continue to post any updates over the next few days if needed...!

 

[Spazmelda]

Well darn. That's the same problem I had with the kidney puncher grommets I ordered. I could never figure out an adequate fix for that issue.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Now this isn't a problem with the Aro tanks at all…I realized I must have been using an Aro head...Bottom line, the Aro head sits JUST LOW ENOUGH in the PT2 base that the protruding silicone tubing doesn't line up with the air holes! The air holes are just a little higher than where the silicone collar sits.

Great observations. I made a similar error of similarity between the Protanks and the 3TS. The heads are virtually the same but there is a difference in the cup flange dimension. The Protank head flange is 10mm in dia. filling the well of the base. It overflows the platform on the 3TS. On the PT the 3TS head having a 9mm flange floods the thing like mad. On the 3TS the Protank head allows too much air flow making the vape dry and extremely hot or dry.

It takes a sharp eye to detect the subtle difference. Of course I didn't happen to have a sharp eye around.

Thanks Trayce.

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Good idea to gingerly pull each leg here to make sure the end wraps are still taught.

^^^^^^^^^

If you want to keep resistance results consistent.

Great post Trayce.

Is that flat wire you're winding on fishie media?

 

[Trayce]

Well darn. That's the same problem I had with the kidney puncher grommets I ordered. I could never figure out an adequate fix for that issue.

I did mention in my original post that it was 3 Aro heads I used with the tubing, but who would have imagined they'd be different from Kangers in this sense! I only thought about them having a narrower collar than Kangers... I didn't think about how they sit lower in the PT2 base than a Kanger (until the problem arose).

You could switch to Aro heads of course, if using a PT, though if you have tons of Kanger heads I can see wanting to stick with those... Very sorry.

 

[Trayce]

Great observations. I made a similar error of similarity between the Protanks and the 3TS. The heads are virtually the same but there is a difference in the cup flange dimension. The Protank head flange is 10mm in dia. filling the well of the base. It overflows the platform on the 3TS. On the PT the 3TS head having a 9mm flange floods the thing like mad. On the 3TS the Protank head allows too much air flow making the vape dry and extremely hot or dry.

Yeah, and in this case it wasn't the flange that mattered, but the way the Aro happens to sit just slightly lower in the PT2 base than the Kanger head does. Thank god I happened to pick up a Kanger on a fluke to rebuild tonight, since the vast majority of my heads are Aros. That happened to be fortuitous.

As to your other post, I wondered that too... if the resistance was wonky because those were maybe the first two coils with the high end-wrap from not learning yet that inserting the pin was pushing up the neg leg (and so had to make sure the legs were pulled snug). They did look a little off when I took them apart.

Anyway... while sorry for those with Kanger heads, I am thrilled to have my tanks back in service!

 

[Chinook]

Thanks for the updates and enjoy the vapes

 

[Trayce]

Spent more time looking closer at the Kanger head and the flared collar was not lined up with the air holes in the PT2 base as I previously thought. But it was blocking air flow by simply filling up the cylinder where it was seated, just below the holes.

I then compared it to an Aro head that I was building (the Aro is the one without a wick yet) and took a picture as the problem is easy to see... the Aro's grommet is flush with the head while the Kanger grommet is flared.



This led me to believe it was simply the way the Kanger build happened to come out. So built it again using the same silicone grommet to see if it would seat differently this time or if the length or something was a factor, (had to make a new coil of course). And this time it VAPED GREAT. Took it out of the PT2 to take a pic:



Bottom line, if using silicone tube simply make sure that when you insert the pin, the tubing looks pretty much flush with the head. If it flares out like in the first pick, pull out the pin and re-insert (before snipping the legs away). I imagine any head, Kanger or Aro, could block airflow if the tube is flaring, but it happened to occur with the Kanger head. If wondering how much of a PITA this will be, I can only say I have done probably 10-12 builds with this tubing and only that one came out flared.


On a different note I am still having issues with the resistance reading inconsistently, usually when I first attach a tank, even when I have vaped it previously, perhaps even a few minutes before and all was fine. It will give me a sub-ohm reading, or something like 3.3 when I know it's a 1.9. Subsequent presses of the + button give varied readings until it settles on the one it belongs on. After that I can vape without issues.... then I take off the tank and switch to another one, and the same thing. Finally it reads the ohms correctly and I vape until I am done with that tank... and switch again, and again it's this issue.

Since I am careful with the coil wrap and know it isn't a loose leg or the like, I'm thinking it's either that there is some issue with the silicone collar, maybe because it is thinner than the stock grommet with its wide bottom collar, OR more likely this is a Vamo issue, as it IS a common problem with the Vamo, or so I have read. So not necessarily related but thought I'd mention it. Will do the "OHMS Vamo Fix" sometime here when I get around to it and report back.

 

[Spazmelda]

Hey, thanks for all the time and effort for writing this up. I've been chasing after a replacement grommet for a while now. Even if you hadn't gotten the tubing to work, I wouldn't have regretted buying some to play with. I'm glad you got it to work though, and I will give it a try when it gets here. The tip about looping the wire up and wrapping it around the needle (or whatever is being used to stabilize the coil wrap was a great one. I tried that yesterday on some heads I was recoiling, and it really made it easier to keep the coil and wick seated properly.

 

[Trayce]

Hey, thanks for all the time and effort for writing this up. I've been chasing after a replacement grommet for a while now. Even if you hadn't gotten the tubing to work, I wouldn't have regretted buying some to play with. I'm glad you got it to work though, and I will give it a try when it gets here. The tip about looping the wire up and wrapping it around the needle (or whatever is being used to stabilize the coil wrap was a great one. I tried that yesterday on some heads I was recoiling, and it really made it easier to keep the coil and wick seated properly.

So glad it was helpful and please let us know how your build goes when your tubing arrives.

One other thing I've noticed that might be helpful to others... to cut the tubing I have been scissors, but a razor blade or sharp exacto knife would be better. Scissors sort of pinch it off at the end of the cut, which leaves an uneven lip, and if TOO uneven, the "higher" part of the lip (or more extended part) is what will protrude once the pin is inserted. A razor will make a nice, clean, even cut.

Also, don't make the tubing longer than a stock grommet as the excess length gets pushed up inside the head and seats itself against the bottom of your coil. A stock grommet prevents this by the large bulky collar at the bottom that keeps the grommet from riding up. This is another reason to only push the tube in halfway or so, then insert the pin. (The tube def is the right size and doesn't just slip into the head freely, but if cut too long it will end up riding too high inside the coil chamber.)

 

[Trayce]

Spent more time looking closer at the Kanger head and the flared collar was not lined up with the air holes in the PT2 base as I previously thought. But it was blocking air flow by simply filling up the cylinder where it was seated, just below the holes.

I then compared it to an Aro head that I was building (the Aro is the one without a wick yet) and took a picture as the problem is easy to see... the Aro's grommet is flush with the head while the Kanger grommet is flared.

View attachment 273333

This led me to believe it was simply the way the Kanger build happened to come out. So built it again using the same silicone grommet to see if it would seat differently this time or if the length or something was a factor, (had to make a new coil of course). And this time it VAPED GREAT. Took it out of the PT2 to take a pic:

View attachment 273334

Bottom line, if using silicone tube simply make sure that when you insert the pin, the tubing looks pretty much flush with the head. If it flares out like in the first pic, pull out the pin and re-insert (before snipping the legs away), or even just ease the pin out a bit and see if that fixes it... maybe I just pushed it in too hard/far. I imagine any head, Kanger or Aro, could block airflow if the tube is flaring, but it happened to occur with the Kanger head. If wondering how much of a PITA this will be, I can only say I have done probably 10-12 builds with this tubing and only that one came out flared... and am sure it was user error.

On a different note I am still having issues with the resistance reading inconsistently, usually when I first attach a tank, even when I have vaped it previously, perhaps even a few minutes before and all was fine. It will give me a sub-ohm reading, or something like 3.3 when I know it's a 1.9. Subsequent presses of the + button give varied readings until it settles on the one it belongs on. After that I can vape without issues.... then I take off the tank and switch to another one, and the same thing. Finally it reads the ohms correctly and I vape until I am done with that tank... and switch again, and again it's this issue.

Since I am careful with the coil wrap and know it isn't a loose leg or the like, I'm thinking it's either that there is some issue with the silicone collar, maybe because it is thinner than the stock grommet with its wide bottom collar, OR more likely this is a Vamo issue, as it IS a common problem with the Vamo, or so I have read. So not necessarily related but thought I'd mention it. Will do the "OHMS Vamo Fix" sometime here when I get around to it and report back.

UPDATE NEXT MORNING: Left PT2 on Vamo all night and vaped great this morning too. No resistance issues. Took tank off, re-filled and put back on Vamo and still no resistance issues (i.e. it's reading the head consistently correct). IMO was def the Vamo trippin' yesterday and not a head problem.

 

[Trayce]

Another observation after using the tanks another day... if you tighten the PT2 too much on the mod it can push the pin up and compress the silicone collar causing it to flare out, (which again blocks off air flow through the bottom of the head). If this happens try backing the tank off a bit to release pressure off the pin, and your air should return if you didn't really crank it down. If that doesn't work take the base off the PT2, unscrew the head from it and gently back the pin out a bit. Then take care when putting it back your device. The idea is to put it on just snug enough to get your readings and work fine.

In general, with ANY device, be mindful that this tubing has no bottom collar to keep the pin stationary, so avoid overtightening. That said, I am still loving this .... such a pleasure to get pure flavor with my tanks!!!

There is one potential caveat for Vamo users. If you can still detect a nuance of rubber it's because the Vamo's positive pin is seated in the same exact rubber grommet used in heads! When that pin gets hot it can heat up the top of that grommet, and those fumes get sucked right up the airhole of the head. (My grommet was charred yellow-brownish, so it's no wonder I could still taste a hint of rubber!) I replaced mine with silicone and that did the trick. Posted what I did in the Vamo forum for anyone interested. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/493321-v3-pin-rubber-grommet-replacement-mod.html.

 

[MacTechVpr]

There is one potential caveat for Vamo users. If you can still detect a nuance of rubber it's because the Vamo's positive pin is seated in the same exact rubber grommet used in heads! When that pin gets hot it can heat up the top of that grommet, and those fumes get sucked right up the airhole of the head. (My grommet was charred yellow-brownish, so it's no wonder I could still taste a hint of rubber!) I replaced mine with silicone and that did the trick. Posted what I did in the Vamo forum for anyone interested. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/493321-v3-pin-rubber-grommet-replacement-mod.html.

This is an awesome fix Trayce! And man, you really are sensitive to rubber off-gassing. It's kind of amazing. Like we're all of us here for one peculiar reason or another fixing all the little pieces that are skewed with this thing called vaping. Like scavenger fish at a cleaning station. Sorry, still stuck on your fish media photos. <grin> But good rework here if the Vamo output held up decently. Kudos.

Another observation after using the tanks another day... if you tighten the PT2 too much on the mod it can push the pin up and compress the silicone collar causing it to flare out, (which again blocks off air flow through the bottom of the head). If this happens try backing the tank off a bit to release pressure off the pin, and your air should return if you didn't really crank it down. If that doesn't work take the base off the PT2, unscrew the head from it and gently back the pin out a bit. Then take care when putting it back your device. The idea is to put it on just snug enough to get your readings and work fine...In general, with ANY device, be mindful that this tubing has no bottom collar to keep the pin stationary, so avoid overtightening. That said, I am still loving this .... such a pleasure to get pure flavor with my tanks!!!

Another good point. Have had to do this. There is an excellent post I believe in the pinned info sections with an explanation of Protank airflow with diagrams discussing this subject of compressed grommets. Don't know if I saw it in one of your links or some time ago. I'll try and backtrack my history and locate it. >>> But, I would add Trayce to exercise care. Need to do this if you get in this situation. However, movement of the grommet or pin always risks repositioning or inducing an arc of the legs. Resistance check necessary (just in case the kiddies are listening). A good fix though for the assembly if successful.

Have a great day.

 

[Trayce]

This is an awesome fix Trayce! And man, you really are sensitive to rubber off-gassing. It's kind of amazing. Like we're all of us here for one peculiar reason or another fixing all the little pieces that are skewed with this thing called vaping. Like scavenger fish at a cleaning station. Sorry, still stuck on your fish media photos. <grin> But good rework here if the Vamo output held up decently. Kudos.

Thanks Mac, but ...fish media photos? Must be another Trayce. Haven't a clue to this reference.

Another good point. Have had to do this. There is an excellent post I believe in the pinned info sections with an explanation of Protank airflow with diagrams discussing this subject of compressed grommets.

Could have saved myself a lot of sleuthing had I seen that first.

Don't know if I saw it in one of your links or some time ago. I'll try and backtrack my history and locate it. >>> But, I would add Trayce to exercise care. Need to do this if you get in this situation. However, movement of the grommet or pin always risks repositioning or inducing an arc of the legs.

Absolutely and good point. It can change the position of the coil too so def don't go twisting the pin around or messing with it more than absolutely necessary. Just the tiniest ease straight back a bit will release the flaring. Thanks for that.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Absolutely and good point. It can change the position of the coil too so def don't go twisting the pin around or messing with it more than absolutely necessary. Just the tiniest ease straight back a bit will release the flaring. Thanks for that.

Just being mindful that are talkin' about SHORTS here! That newb's reading will love the hints we give if succesful. But maybe not so if they end up with a RUNAWAY BATTERY when they threw that PT we helped encourage them to fix on a mech…and didn't ALWAYS CHECK RESISTANCE.

I've had two and the first one should have been enough. Some people just have to piss on the electric fence themselves.

Just sayin'.



There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers

 

[Spazmelda]

The tubing arrived today and I ensconced myself in the bathroom with my heavy duty magnifying readers and a razor blade to give it a go. It seems to work fairly well, but I'm going to need some practice. I'm having trouble getting the tubing pushed far up enough into the head, and the lip sticking out is ending up thicker than the stock grommet. This causes some air flow problems, but unscrewing the tank a bit makes them usable. I tried cutting the tubing a little shorter than the stock grommet, and that helped some. It's still hard to get it wedged up in the tube. Makes me want some sort of tool to help wedge it up in there, but not sure what would work. I think I made 3 total, and the first two were thick with air flow problems, but worked okay with the tank unscrewed a bit. The last one was thinner, but I had lost patience and put it aside to test later. I'll update when I do this.

ETA: I, of course, checked the resistance of my coils first before firing them up, as I always do!