Possible Stinky Grommet Replacement

[Spazmelda]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...

I just got the insulators from Lightening Vapes, and the package says, "10x 3.5mm Silicone Resistance Coil Insulators". The webpage doesn't specify that they are silicone so I was assuming they would be rubber. I haven't tried them out yet, but they look pretty much identical to the stock pro-tank insulators I have.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yea, I reported earlier in the thread. I've had 'em in almost a week now. Problem is they're spread across a batch of different types of tanks, all Kangers. And…a few I'm also running tests on a new batch of media from a different vendor, XC-132. On two tanks I've experienced slightly diminished airflow although I agree the material looks and feels (tastes) exactly the same as current Kanger issue. Still it's troublesome. I keep examining the two tanks with the new rubber but I can't distinguish if they have the new or old batch of XC-132. There's a variation there too as I did not wash that media as I have for previous supplies. So I will have to dedicate some tanks just for the new insulators. I would say most are working just fine and a few of what I got may be off spec slightly? They don't appear to be but I keep pushing them in anyway to see if this helps.

Why don't you let us know please what you find? We'll compare notes in a few days.

Thanks and good luck!

 

[Trayce]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...

I just got the insulators from Lightening Vapes, and the package says, "10x 3.5mm Silicone Resistance Coil Insulators". The webpage doesn't specify that they are silicone so I was assuming they would be rubber. I haven't tried them out yet, but they look pretty much identical to the stock pro-tank insulators I have.

Old or new PT insulators?

The tip-off is whether or not they are clearish-cloudy-white and softer, or opaque and harder like the old rubber grommets. There are different types (grades) of silicone as well as different types of rubber. Food/medical grade, inert silicone can only be clearish/cloudy/white by law. This law exists for safety purposes so that it can be visually identified as pure and inert (think medical settings). Lesser grade silicone has to be colored in some way so that it is visually distinguishable from medical/food grade silicone.

Let us know... I'm curious!

 

[generic mutant]

Hmm... The stuff I've got is dead transparent, like glass.

I hope it's the right stuff, having a google now. If you can link to the regulations in question, that'd be appreciated - it seems the FDA regulations are something of a de facto standard, but it might well be that they aren't applicable here. The stuff I bought was definitely advertised as food grade...

As a point of curiosity, what is the difference between them anyway (apart from, you know, cancer and stuff)? The stated parameters (e.g. temp range) seem the same. I can only assume the industrial stuff is more resistant to solvents or something...

Anyway, I'm going on a rebuild mission tonight, so wish me luck. I'll probably try the wedge strategy first (not discounting your experience Spazmelda, I just gotta give it a shot myself... ), then after that shaving bits off it. Will report back.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Old or new PT insulators?

The tip-off is whether or not they are clearish-cloudy-white and softer, or opaque and harder like the old rubber grommets. There are different types (grades) of silicone as well as different types of rubber. Food/medical grade, inert silicone can only be clearish/cloudy/white by law. This law exists for safety purposes so that it can be visually identified as pure and inert (think medical settings). Lesser grade silicone has to be colored in some way so that it is visually distinguishable from medical/food grade silicone.

Let us know... I'm curious!

As I reported, they appear to be of the same composition that began apparently with the release of the 2.2Ω heads. I have a few of them around, the original supply of various tanks. Although they appear almost identical to prior they immediately proved easier to insert than the original versions of which I also had a supply of new to compare at the time. I came to the conclusion that they had altered the composition slightly, perhaps to resist scorching. In no way do they appear to me to be silicone. However, the product package is in fact labelled "silicone". Perhaps there is a silicone component in the compound? Since the 2.2Ω heads??

Just sayin'.

 

[Trayce]

Hmm... The stuff I've got is dead transparent, like glass.

I hope it's the right stuff, having a google now. If you can link to the regulations in question, that'd be appreciated - it seems the FDA regulations are something of a de facto standard, but it might well be that they aren't applicable here. The stuff I bought was definitely advertised as food grade...

When I get a bug in my hat I Google like crazy for several hours reading dozens of sites to suss out what I need to know, then promptly move on with my answer. So I cannot provide links as I looked into this about a month ago. The bit about looking for cloudy/white/clear'ish came not directly from the FDA but from one of the many industrial sites on plastics and silicone I read and was a general sort of "here's how you can tell real fast if you're looking at a medical/food grade plastic or not". They also pointed out that plastic containers for food (Tupperware type plastic you see at the grocers) is always cloudy-clearish-white and softish (vs plastic that cracks).

Hard, clear plastic is not food grade, which is what most plastic tanks are made from.

That said, your tubing is SOFT and clear, so that's different, and since it is food grade, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you are the one who said you found tubing but it was only rated to 200C (392F) vs 260C (500F ) like the cloudy stuff I got. The dead-glass-clear color could be used for food grade rated to 200C vs medical grade (which is a step higher than food grade) at the higher temp. But for vaping purposes, food grade is fine. Even if it scorches, it won't release anything toxic. In my case with the 500F temp rating, there is not a single scorch mark on my tubes when I have taken them out to see how they fared.

As a point of curiosity, what is the difference between them anyway (apart from, you know, cancer and stuff)? The stated parameters (e.g. temp range) seem the same. I can only assume the industrial stuff is more resistant to solvents or something...

Temp range is not the same. It varies by grade. And even among medical grade silicone there are (from what I have read) three different grades: one for external use, one for temporary implanted devices, and one for permanent implanted devices.

Bottom line is, your silicone is food grade and will not add a nasty flavor or release fumes if heated. Even if melted. So you're good as long as you can get it to work.

Anyway, I'm going on a rebuild mission tonight, so wish me luck. I'll probably try the wedge strategy first (not discounting your experience Spazmelda, I just gotta give it a shot myself... ), then after that shaving bits off it. Will report back.

Good luck! Let is know how it goes!!

 

[Trayce]

As I reported, they appear to be of the same composition that began apparently with the release of the 2.2Ω heads.

I for one don't know what began with the 2.2 heads though... That is, I still don't know if you're talking about clearish silicone or solid rubber... or something all together new.

I came to the conclusion that they had altered the composition slightly, perhaps to resist scorching. In no way do they appear to me to be silicone. However, the product package is in fact labelled "silicone". Perhaps there is a silicone component in the compound? Since the 2.2Ω heads??

Could be... I'm no chemist. But there are certainly lots of grades of all of these plastics.... rubber and silicone alike. And then too, it's made in China, so... who knows.

But if it doesn't add a nasty taste to your vape and it works, it's a winner in my book.

 

[MacTechVpr]

All I know is I detected a marked improvement when those heads came on line. Particularly with the leaking issue. I concluded that they seated better which could have just been a slight improvement in their molding. But coupled with the reduction in charring that they've had vs. the earlier ones I deduce there has to be a composition change. Maybe wishful thinking and I am that good.

 

[Trayce]

All I know is I detected a marked improvement when those heads came on line. Particularly with the leaking issue. I concluded that they seated better which could have just been a slight improvement in their molding. But coupled with the reduction in charring that they've had vs. the earlier ones I deduce there has to be a composition change. Maybe wishful thinking and I am that good.

Or they could very well be silicone, (unless they look exactly like the original ones), in which case you are right they could have at least switched to a different composition, maybe a rubber with added silicone to lessen the flavor issues or whatever. IAC if it works for ya, that's all that counts!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Or they could very well be silicone, (unless they look exactly like the original ones), in which case you are right they could have at least switched to a different composition, maybe a rubber with added silicone to lessen the flavor issues or whatever. IAC if it works for ya, that's all that counts!

Well that remains to be seen. I will have to run more of them through their paces. I'm not pleased at the thought they might be bulging enough to reduce airflow. The draw is too tight already on the PT2. Because it was satisfactory for the original. Although airy at first draw improved after a short time and some vacuum pressure developed in the tank. It can't produce vapor or flavor adequately if the draw is constrained. And the PT2 has it's little sister the T3S showing it up. But we'll see. Sure, short of a big bucks atty it's a bargain. If the grommet issues persist I'd be a thumbs down for me on the tank as just too fiddly for the effort. For me anyways. Trying to balance the flow requirements of varying media alongside inconsistency of an insulator is just too much work. The solution for Kanger to retain any market share isn't to attempt diversification with further derivatives. I understand your focus on this problem. I love the tank too. But Kanker needs to fix the insulator issues. We can fix it for them. This thread is an example. It's a matter of effort. Make the parts available.

Just sayin'.

 

[Trayce]

[...] I'm trying a little different modification of the tubing now. I used some tiny scissors to bevel the bottom edge of the silicone grommet/tubing all the way around. That seems to be working well. I've filled the tank a few times and the air flow is fine.

I decided to try this mod since I finally rebuilt my PT2 Kanger head again tonight, and got the flared tube issue blocking airflow. (But again, no problems with the eGo threaded Aro tanks.. just the PT2!)

But the PT2 is hitting great now after applying your mod. This is what I did for anyone interested in trying... it's simple to do and only takes a sec:

1> Cut a length of tubing the right size.

2> Insert the positive post into the tube you just cut. (Not inside the head... just pick up the tube by itself and insert the post into it.) The tube should be the same length as the post.

3> Hold the post by the head. It will keep the tube rigid while you modify the bottom lip.

4> I used a large pair of fingernail clippers because they have a natural arc perfect for this purpose. Holding the head, simply snip the "top edge of the bottom lip" off, all the way around. Be careful to only snip the top edge off .... don't snip all the way down. This bevels the bottom (Spazmelda did it with manicure scissors I think, but clippers were pretty easy.)

5> Take tube off post and assemble head...

Now when the pin gets pushed up the silicone can compress some without bulging. My PT2 is hitting fantastic. This is a mod I will use from now on with the PT2. Thank you Spazmelda for your very useful contribution!




(click for closeup)

 

[MacTechVpr]

I decided to try this mod since I finally rebuilt my PT2 Kanger head again tonight, and got the flared tube issue blocking airflow. (But again, no problems with the eGo threaded Aro tanks.. just the PT2!)

But the PT2 is hitting great now after applying your mod. This is what I did for anyone interested in trying... it's simple to do and only takes a sec:

1> Cut a length of tubing the right size.

2> Insert the positive post into the tube you just cut. (Not inside the head... just pick up the tube by itself and insert the post into it.) The tube should be the same length as the post.

3> Hold the post by the head. It will keep the tube rigid while you modify the bottom lip.

4> I used a large pair of fingernail clippers because they have a natural arc perfect for this purpose. Holding the head, simply snip the "top edge of the bottom lip" off, all the way around. Be careful to only snip the top edge off .... don't snip all the way down. This bevels the bottom (Spazmelda did it with manicure scissors I think, but clippers were pretty easy.)

5> Take tube off post and assemble head...

Now when the pin gets pushed up the silicone can compress some without bulging. My PT2 is hitting fantastic. This is a mod I will use from now on with the PT2. Thank you Spazmelda for your very useful contribution!


View attachment 276750

(click for closeup)

Outstanding Dr. Watson! There goes my aquarium, for lack of silicone tubing. Just be sure to keep those "hangers" nipped close. And judging by those edges, I'll send you my Tweezerman. It's a bit sharper!



(Seriously nice work.)

 

[generic mutant]

Ughh.

I wasn't expecting that to be easy, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite that much of a pain either.

I've built a few, and ended up with one seemingly working coil at the end of it (it's soaking, so I'll know in an hour of so).

The hardest part wasn't getting the grommet in, but clipping off the wire. I'm using a Stanley knife (I think you guys call them 'box cutters' for reasons no doubt known to yourselves ). The negative leg doesn't seem that difficult, but the positive is a right pain, and often in the process I end up carving up the grommet so much I have to start again. Feels like I could get better at it with practise, but also feels like a change of strategy would be better.

I'll try to get some sharp nail clippers tomorrow to try with. But I also notice there's a hole in the middle of the pins. Has anyone just guided the positive leg through that hole, cut the end off, and hoped it ended up resting against the pin? At this point, that sounds more tempting than it should...

Edit - OK, so I tried my successful one, and it's a keeper - slightly higher resistance than I was aiming for, but very nice vapour, and no sputtering or flooding. I can see why people go to the trouble; I just need to work out how to snip that blinking positive leg...

 

[Trayce]

Ughh.

I wasn't expecting that to be easy, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite that much of a pain either.

I've built a few, and ended up with one seemingly working coil at the end of it (it's soaking, so I'll know in an hour of so).

The hardest part wasn't getting the grommet in, but clipping off the wire. I'm using a Stanley knife (I think you guys call them 'box cutters' for reasons no doubt known to yourselves ). The negative leg doesn't seem that difficult, but the positive is a right pain, and often in the process I end up carving up the grommet so much I have to start again. Feels like I could get better at it with practise, but also feels like a change of strategy would be better.

I'll try to get some sharp nail clippers tomorrow to try with. But I also notice there's a hole in the middle of the pins. Has anyone just guided the positive leg through that hole, cut the end off, and hoped it ended up resting against the pin? At this point, that sounds more tempting than it should...

Edit - OK, so I tried my successful one, and it's a keeper - slightly higher resistance than I was aiming for, but very nice vapour, and no sputtering or flooding. I can see why people go to the trouble; I just need to work out how to snip that blinking positive leg...

Congrats! And please do NOT use a box cutter! MUCH harder than snippers, whether you use fingernail clippers or sharp, small wire cutter pliers.

Also, do not pass the positive leg through the airhole in the pin! The positive leg is easiest of all as it passes through the center of the grommet so there is no tension on it anywhere and no need to push the grommet past it... only past the neg leg.

Once the grommet is in place, take the pos leg and pull a little then bend it at a right angle using the bottom of the head... bend it towards its end of the coil, towards the opposite side the neg leg is on.... then IT is out of the way, and insert your pin.

OK, so now the pin is inserted and you have two long legs there.... with the bit or wrap implement still inside the coil, pull each leg one at a time, straight down, carefully but firmly, with needle nose to make sure those end wraps are taught against the bit (needle, screwdriver, whatever you used to wrap the coil). Then pull each out out at a right angle to make it easier to snip close to its exit point at the bottom of the head.

Snip and done.

You will get the hang of it.... !! GOOD JOB!!

 

[Spazmelda]

For me, fingernail clippers are perfect. I have some small side snippers that are for jewelry making, but fingernail clippers work better. You can kind of dig them in there and clip the wire very flush. Tip- do not use clippers that you intend to use on your nails later if you value your manicure. The wire is not kind to the clippers.

I've seen videos where people simply rotate the wire around in a circle and it breaks off at the right point. I've never been able to get that to work. It always breaks at the wrong spot for me.

oh, and we call them box cutters because we use them to cut boxes (among other things... But not kanthal).

 

[Spazmelda]

Update for me: I'm liking the lightening vapes grommets. A guy I spoke to at vapor cast finally twisted my arm and convinced me to try cotton for the wicks. He suggested surgical cotton, but the only type I could find was inside a sterile wound dressing. It didn't seem like it would work as it was very short fibers that all wanted to flake apart. Luckily I bought some cotton balls while I was at Walgreens and they make a very nice wick. The flavor is noticeably better than with silica wick. For these I had to make some wrapping changes. I had been wrapping the coil around the silica while it was stabilized on some long pin thing that I had. For the cotton I wrapped the coil on a 1/16 dril bit and then pulled the cotton through. It was a lot easier than I thought it would be and I wish I hadn't waited so long to try it!

 

[Trayce]

Update for me: I'm liking the lightening vapes grommets. A guy I spoke to at vapor cast finally twisted my arm and convinced me to try cotton for the wicks. He suggested surgical cotton, but the only type I could find was inside a sterile wound dressing. It didn't seem like it would work as it was very short fibers that all wanted to flake apart. Luckily I bought some cotton balls while I was at Walgreens and they make a very nice wick. The flavor is noticeably better than with silica wick. For these I had to make some wrapping changes. I had been wrapping the coil around the silica while it was stabilized on some long pin thing that I had. For the cotton I wrapped the coil on a 1/16 dril bit and then pulled the cotton through. It was a lot easier than I thought it would be and I wish I hadn't waited so long to try it!

Great! Yep, once you use cotton you never go back! And a drill bit or other wrapping tool makes life much easier.

Happy to hear you like the Lightening Vapes grommets... once I run out of tube (forever and a day) I might try them if by then someone can verify they are food grade silicone and not a lesser grade. Otherwise I will stick with the tubing.

 

[jistjul]

I ordered these, and they are exactly like the stock grommets. Which is great for someone who doesn't have an issue with the burnt grommet taste, but I seem to be like Tracye. I can taste rubber only THINKING about burning! They are definitely NOT silicone.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...

I just got the insulators from Lightening Vapes, and the package says, "10x 3.5mm Silicone Resistance Coil Insulators". The webpage doesn't specify that they are silicone so I was assuming they would be rubber. I haven't tried them out yet, but they look pretty much identical to the stock pro-tank insulators I have.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I ordered these, and they are exactly like the stock grommets. Which is great for someone who doesn't have an issue with the burnt grommet taste, but I seem to be like Tracye. I can taste rubber only THINKING about burning! They are definitely NOT silicone.

Thanks. You're right jistjul, they don't appear to be silicone, though certainly marked as such.

I bought in early and commented here that the composition also does resemble that of the factory as you say. They aren't identical though. They're not as likely to sear from a hot leg during dry burn as the factory which suggests a possible composite of silicone. But they're much more prone to slip when wet I've found since. I rebuild a lot and the slightest moisture causes them to slip during install, tank reinstalls after topping off, etc. And this has caused frequent resistance changes for me even as I'm very careful drying. So LQQK to double-check for coil orientation if you detect erratic resistance or unaccounted for changes. Might be our new grommet is the culprit. Great anyway to have an option to the burned ones, for sure. And it's more of a nuisance than anything to have to pay that much attention. Still keeping things as dry as possible is never a bad idea.

Good luck!

 

[Huckleberried]

I know it's a month or more later, but what a great read this has been!! Bookmarked. Thank you to Generic Mutant, Spazmelda, Tracye and MacTech. I hope I didn't miss anyone. So much information here between all of you. I'd love to get you guys around a table and just sit and listen. And vape.

I'm not crazy about the ones from lightning vapes and the AGA ones at Kidney Puncher aren't working well for me, so far.