FDA Post-hearing reactions?

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zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
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And for those who've yet to do so, become a Supporting Member at ECF.. It's only 24 bucks for 1 year, people! (Or $40 if you want)..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/payments.php

This is the place that has made a lot of this possible for all of us.. And how much per month did you used to spend on smokes??


ECF has a store with some cool gear, too.. :)

ECF Store

It does kinda Blow my Mind when People Post that they Have Saved Hundreds or Thousands (some even put it in their Signatures) and they Owe it All to the Info and Help they got from the ECF.

But Choose Not to Support what Got them there. And the Place where they Come to Tell Me they Got There.

Seems kinda Odd?
 

Kent C

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It does kinda Blow my Mind when People Post that they Have Saved Hundreds or Thousands (some even put it in their Signatures) and they Owe it All to the Info and Help they got from the ECF.

But Choose Not to Support what Got them there. And the Place where they Come to Tell Me they Got There.

Seems kinda Odd?

It might seem that way if you didn't have all the data. Another way to contribute is to help others on the newbie, vets and general forums, etc..
 

Nate760

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That's what I'm talking about. Both parties are corrupt as hell..Fire 'um all and start all over. Vote Libertarian! Get the government out of our lives!

The cognitive dissonance that afflicts the American electorate is something I will never understand. Almost ONE THIRD of registered voters are unaffiliated with either major party, but when election day rolls around, 95% of them go to the polls and dutifully vote for the same old Democrats and Republicans. Nothing could possibly make less sense.
 

Ranger71d

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I found the fact that cigarettes are actually more deadly now than before being regulated. There are only a few tobacco companies that can remain profitable today. And they are obviously making cigarettes more deadly in order to continue being profitable. Why wasn't Harkins concerned with no action by the FDA to address that issue?
Harkin seemed uninterested in cigars. But massively focused on ecigs.
I hope common sense will prevail. And I people vote in officials that will approach this and other issues with common sense.
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
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It might seem that way if you didn't have all the data. Another way to contribute is to help others on the newbie, vets and general forums, etc..

I agree. What you said Definitely helps Members. I like to think that I have Helped a Member here or there in my time here.

I was Directing my Post more at Helping the ECF as a Forum Software Entity. Helping a Newbie, Member and or Vet is Great. But It Can't Buy a New Hard Drive Array. Or More Sever Time.

With the Money it sounds like Some people are Saving, I Think that Perhaps they can do Both. And still have a Nice Pile Left Over to Give a Small Amount to an Advocacy Group even.
 

irwink

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That's what I'm talking about. Both parties are corrupt as hell..Fire 'um all and start all over. Vote Libertarian! Get the government out of our lives!
While I very much appreciate your sentiments I long ago gave up any hope that came out of a very rigged ballot box. Face the truth people! It's long past time to break out of your comfortable ostrich holes. If you still prefer to prioritize Dancing with the stars, honey boo boo or whatever other moronic pursuits then you deserve what's already here and all that's still coming.

Judging by the inaction, complacency, illiteracy and lethargy of the average US citizen I can only see an acceleration of the already established decline and fall of the historically short lived United States of America.
 

aubergine

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I'm not supporting member because the email with which I signed up years ago isn't the same as my PP email, and I'm not gonna mess with the latter because last time I did things got massively screwed up (for complicated reasons). Wld be delighted to use debit or send a check but that wasn't in the works then - is it now?




It does kinda Blow my Mind when People Post that they Have Saved Hundreds or Thousands (some even put it in their Signatures) and they Owe it All to the Info and Help they got from the ECF.

But Choose Not to Support what Got them there. And the Place where they Come to Tell Me they Got There.

Seems kinda Odd?
 

Sirius

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While I very much appreciate your sentiments I long ago gave up any hope that came out of a very rigged ballot box. Face the truth people! It's long past time to break out of your comfortable ostrich holes. If you still prefer to prioritize Dancing with the stars, honey boo boo or whatever other moronic pursuits then you deserve what's already here and all that's still coming.

Judging by the inaction, complacency, illiteracy and lethargy of the average US citizen I can only see an acceleration of the already established decline and fall of the historically short lived United States of America.

THAT, (in bold) made me LOL but what you are basically saying is what many that follow politics have known for years. The majority of the population is so unformed that few even know who their state representatives are. When one of the ,"I got rich in politics and I'm getting richer by the day" politicians has a witty personality or has movie star looks..BINGO, that's who they vote for.
And with the rise of the millennials things just got worse. They won't take the time to fact check that politicians spew. They listen to what they want to hear. Yep, we are in deep doo doo for sure!
 

Sirius

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The cognitive dissonance that afflicts the American electorate is something I will never understand. Almost ONE THIRD of registered voters are unaffiliated with either major party, but when election day rolls around, 95% of them go to the polls and dutifully vote for the same old Democrats and Republicans. Nothing could possibly make less sense.

You're spot on Nate!
 

Kent C

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Depends how one makes the comparision. If you're going to pick the 3 of the biggest unions and compare them to one large industry (BP) and one relatively small industry group (BT), you might be right.



From: Business-Labor-Ideology Split in PAC & Individual Donations to Candidates, Parties Super PACs and Outside Spending Groups | OpenSecrets

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

12 out of top 16 are unions. I rest my case. :) Koch Industries must be in the top ten right? Nah.... 59th.
 

Nate760

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I found the fact that cigarettes are actually more deadly now than before being regulated. There are only a few tobacco companies that can remain profitable today. And they are obviously making cigarettes more deadly in order to continue being profitable. Why wasn't Harkins concerned with no action by the FDA to address that issue?
Harkin seemed uninterested in cigars. But massively focused on ecigs.
I hope common sense will prevail. And I people vote in officials that will approach this and other issues with common sense.

The most patently absurd thing about this whole three-ring FDA circus is that they're seeking to impose regulations on e-cigs (specifically, nationwide age restrictions and mandatory listing of ingredients) that don't exist, never have existed, and likely never will exist for tobacco cigarettes. In what universe does it make sense that a product which actively kills people by the hundreds of thousands doesn't have to list its ingredients, but an alternative product that's never harmed anyone does? You literally couldn't make this crap up if you tried.
 

sonicdsl

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Yes, only option is Paypal for ECF support at this time. There are numerous threads about it in Site Feedback & Help. The gist is that there is not an affordable alternative at this time. If someone has an idea that has yet to be tried (check those threads), SJ & Roly are open to suggestions. :)
 

cowjelly

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I sent a letter to Barbara Mikulski. It's long so if nobody here reads it I won't hold it against them. lol

Dear Senator Mikulski,

I am very concerned about the FDA's deeming regulations for the electronic cigarette industry. Myself and my wife are both responsible adults and have a family of 4 children. We both struggled for nearly a decade trying to quit smoking and we tried all the methods including cold turkey, nicotine replacement therapy, and even prescription drugs. None of these methods worked for more than a few months and it wasn't for lack of trying. The prescription medication attempt was a huge mistake. We've never been on any prescription drugs other than antibiotics and the side effects from the drugs were downright scary. I can't believe they are even allowed.

11 months ago my wife and I decided to try electronic cigarettes. It was an instant success and we both have not inhaled combustible tobacco smoke for almost a year and counting. We have both reduced our nicotine intake substantially since the beginning and our health has improved dramatically. I consider electronic cigarettes a modern health miracle that have the potential to save millions of Americans lives if the industry is allowed to flourish. We are not sure how long we will continue to use electronic cigarettes but that decision should be ours to make and not any branch of the Government.

The deeming regulations from the FDA has the potential to destroy the industry as we know it. As written, it can basically remove all the technology advancements that have been made since 2007. This technology has been paramount to the high success rate of getting Americans off of deadly tobacco smoke and replacing it with an exponentially less harmful alternative. Under the proposal, any accessory not on the market pre-2007 will require testing and approval. The cost of the approval process (and even the process itself) is extremely burdensome and will likely squash the majority of existing products and prevent new technology from entering the market. The proposed rules are backwards and poorly thought out. If the true goal of the American Government is to reduce the number of citizens using combustible tobacco products then the proposed rules MUST be changed.

It really makes no sense to me. All of the products operate the exact same way. Resistance wire heats a solution and turns it into vapor. A simple battery provides the power. Whether it's a small unit resembling a cigarette or a more advanced tank system, they are virtually identical in function. However, the more advanced systems are what makes the industry successful in keeping users from going to back to combustible tobacco products. The gas station disposable electronic cigarettes are not satisfying. They are not the answer and if the industry reverts back to old and poorly performing technology it will be at the expense of potentially millions of American lives.

Many of the regulations are being supported by misinformation and flat out lies from both regulators and the media. Nicotine does not cause cancer. Nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine. Studies (from places like NIH) have been done on the effects of nicotine that show no mortality, adverse health effects, or cancerous properties. The only thing that makes nicotine dangerous is delivering it through smoke that contains large quantities of toxic chemicals. The FDA has even approved nicotine replacement therapies for long term use.

Another key component to making electronic cigarettes satisfying enough to keep people from going back to combustible products are flavors. Users are trying to get away from the taste of tobacco and flavors provide just that. It's a completely baseless argument that the flavors are specifically used to market to children. If that was the case then flavored alcohol drinks should be banned immediately as well. Adults love flavors and we desire flavors. As a parent of 4 children, it is my responsibility to guide them through decisions and not the Government's.

The proposal also unjustly burdens the manufacturers of the e liquid because as written it would require each individual flavor to go through rigorous testing before being allowed on the market. This makes absolutely no sense. Virtually all e liquid is made from the same 4 ingredients: pharmaceutical grade propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and FDA approved flavors. All of the ingredients are already approved for consumption. It makes no sense to force them to be approved again for consumption when they already are. It's a redundant regulation that will have a large negative impact on the industry.

Age restrictions on the products is a must and I fully support that part of the proposal. I also support warning labels. However, supporting the other proposed regulations is basically saying I don't care about the life and health of people who are looking for an alternative to smoking that works. And will likely be proven to work exponentially better than all other methods combined if given the opportunity.

My wife and I are not alone in our success with quitting smoking by using electronic cigarettes. I have witnessed 9 close friends, coworkers, and family members quit smoking almost instantly by switching to electronic cigarettes. There are literally hundreds of thousands of others with similar stories but that gets no recognition whatsoever. It's called anecdotal evidence in the media and quickly dismissed. I see it as fact and have witnessed 10 people with my own eyes. And I have zero reason to doubt anyone else's story because the product simply works better than any other method. It's a fact that decision makers refuse to accept or even entertain and it greatly upsets me.

I respectfully ask your help in protecting the rights and freedoms of the citizens of this Country. They should be allowed open access to products with limited harm that work. Especially when it comes to products that assist in getting Americans off of cigarettes. Blocking or heavily restricting access to a product that is already proven to have far less toxins and magnitudes of reduced harm from cigarettes in incomprehensible to me. The advancements in technology must be protected. The variety of flavors must remain. The availability of bottled e liquid must not be hindered. Please help protect our freedom and health.

Respectfully,

Robert Chill

Very good letter Mr. Chill, one thing I was thinking about doing with mine is putting CC Facebook at the bottom so they can see the world will see what I wrote. I'll have to get the wife to help with that because I don't do Facebook very often. Keith
 

Gato del Jugo

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I'm not supporting member because the email with which I signed up years ago isn't the same as my PP email...

I became one this year.. It doesn't work like that anymore -- email addys can be different.. :)


Anyway, not trying to shame or guilt anybody here, so no reasons needed.. Just throwing out a couple more ideas on how people can directly or indirectly help fight this long war...
 
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