Preparing for the Possible Ban on E-cigs

[PeteMcArthur]

I really hope this post is in the right place!! Banning of the hardware would probably require an act of Parliament unless they could be classified as Firearms or certain type of edged weapons.

Kate, your right my main worry is extracting nicotine, I'd far rather buy it However if push comes to shove I would do it.

 

[deewal]

How is nicotine for our e cigs extracted now and from what ?
Anyone know ?
From reading all the different ideas on the forum the Power side is being worked on. The Screwdriver's been made and Bastage is working on USB and Battery power so as Leaford has said we need to be able to make an atomiser.
I f they Ban Nicotine juice then surely they must ban Nicotine in all it's forms ?

 

[Bertrand]

How is nicotine for our e cigs extracted now and from what ?
Anyone know ?
From reading all the different ideas on the forum the Power side is being worked on. The Screwdriver's been made and Bastage is working on USB and Battery power so as Leaford has said we need to be able to make an atomiser.
I f they Ban Nicotine juice then surely they must ban Nicotine in all it's forms ?

Tobacco. Nicotine used to be available at gardening stores as a pesticide, but it wasn't very good for the plants and was occasionally used for murder, so it stopped getting sold there.

 

[Soot]

The UK government has a wealth of options it COULD take but it will take no action at all unless e-cigs present a risk. That ‘risk’ may be financial or health based.

Nic-liquid probably already falls within existing regulations – if only in regard to the bottling and labelling of a hazardous substance. Compliance here may lead to a small increase in costs but benefits (in my opinion) would be worthwhile.

The next step up would be to regulate the use of e-cigs in public. Extending the legislation to include e-cigs may only require secondary legislation and could be passed very quickly with minimal debate or parliamentary scrutiny.

In the case of NI law this does not appear to be the case (it is very likely that England and Wales have exactly the same legislation). The Smoking (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 defines smoking in primary legislation. It reads:

In this Order
(a) “smoking” refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking any other substance; and
(b) smoking includes being in possession of lit tobacco or of anything lit which contains tobacco, or being in possession of any other lit substance in a form in which it could be smoked.

Unless “vaping” is to meet the definition of “smoking” then this legislation could only be changed by introducing a new Bill that would go through full legislative passage; i.e., full scrutiny. A government’s legislative timetable is a busy one – they’d need a reason to put e-cigs on that agenda.

Perhaps some food for thought for those who like to use the term “e-smoking” instead of “vaping” and it’s certainly reason to consider whether winding-up bar and restaurant managers is a good idea.

Meanwhile, other measures taken against nicotine (over and above that of proper labelling and bottling safety) would not be that easy advance without threatening the significant investment the government is making in NRT.

I’m not expecting much action and if we see it it’ll be in; regulating labelling and bottling (to at least making bottles child safe with ingredients listed), after that public policy positions will be taken by leading government agencies prior to legislative bans.

For anything to happen quickly you’d need a child’s life put in danger after messing with one of our bottles (or carts), a significant problem in implementing the ban on smoking due to e-cigs - or new scientific evidence that raises serious medical concerns.

The e-cig industry is a small one and there’s been little medical testing. As it grows there will be considerable concern from the pharmaceutical industry. I expect the first large studies will be done by them with results feed through lobbyists at lightening speed. Any poor formulation may well see the benefit of rapid chemical analysis that links substances to known medical conditions.

This is too long a post.

I guess I’m saying – don’t be too anxious about this but do be careful and considerate in how you “vape”. This forum in itself is a good first step in collecting and communicating experiences in a quasi organised manner. AND – for God’s sake – do be careful in ensuring no child can possibly get near your “stuff”.

There is more in our control than it might seem.

Sorry this post is so long. Hope there's something in it that helps.

 

[dc2k08]

i can see them wanting to ban the liquid on the grounds that the range of sweet flavours could lead children to take up the habit. WHO' last PDF specifically criticizes tobacco companies for bringing out a range of products with candy flavours. There always "doing it for the children"

 

[MagusSteele]

That is Such Crap.
I Hate the Children line.

sweet flavours could lead children to take up the habit

Adults do not like sweet things? WTF?
I watched certain types of cigarettes taken off shelfs for the exact same reason. The pretty colored packs and sweet flavors would lead to kids smoking, BS!!

"OH, Pretty Colors, Smells good, Got a Light?" hate politicians.

They need to Ban friends, and Partys then, thats how I started, friends did at a lot of the partys

 

[Soot]

They've not done it with alcohol DC and I've some sympathy with concerns about marketing strategies in this area. I don't see it as there being a hostile world looking to ban everything - though at times I'm driven to doubt.

I once had to fix my daughter's computer after her downloading a virus. After clearing it I discovered herself and her (then) school-friend had been busy on MSN using the handle "2GrilsUpForIt". She was 15 and she was firmly grounded afterwards. I didn't ban MSN.

If I sound PC it's probably because I'm a parent and when wound-up by my children to the point of calling for regulation I have to remind myself what I used to get up to. BUT "2GirlsUpForIt" was 2much. I expect my now adult daughter cringes remembering my "safe sex" lectures that followed. I doubt she knows it took more out of me.

People care about children and I think the lack of child-safety on e-liquid bottles is a disaster waiting to happen. However - it isn't just down to suppliers to manage that risk.

 

[taz3cat]

I agree with MagnusSteele hate the bit about children, kind of sick, had 5 of my own. I though it was my responsiblity to protect them form stuff in my home.

The biggist hazard to Children is cleaning products stored in the kitichen of most homes. Should all cleaning products should be banned for the sake of the children and parents that are too stupid to protect their own children.

 

[Soot]

I'm not proposing anything be banned.

 

[MagusSteele]

See Soot,
thats the way it SHOULD BE.
The parents should watch over their children, teach them, or punish them accordingly, NOT the politicians and organizations looking for grant money for their new Yacht or Summer home payments.

 

[tonyph]

unless something realy controversial happens, such as a child drinking a bottle of juice and poisining themselves, I cant see the UK goverment taking dramatic action. What will inevitably happen is that existing regulations will be used to make sure goods are properly packaged and labeled. There may be slight amendments to such laws to cater for the the e-cig. Whether this will be agressively enforced so as to obstruct the product or be a part of natural product development in a growing market is yet to be seen. Trading standards been the main enforcement agency, and I would guess they are already studying the issues. A lot will depend on public attitude and health fears. Hopefully it will be constructive, I like the current raw nature of the product but it realy needs goverments and major companies to do proper health testing.
If by a series of controversial events it does get made illegal, which I think is unlikely to happen over night we should be able to get by. I cant see how you can make the ingrediants illegal. You can grow tobacco, food ingrdiants can't be banned for one potential use and the electronic items would also be impossible. The headache would be not been able to smoke them in public.

 

[Soot]

Tony - I agree with most of what you say.

As to "dramatic action" - I expect you're right if you're talking about new laws. There are quite enough laws on the statute books that can be used already.

 

[tonyph]

soot, I read your post after putting mine up ( i got delayed half way through). I thought you put it together much better.

 

[Soot]

Thanks Tony - I often find half my post written an hour later than the first half.

 

[Denni]

It doesn't take any time at all to get e-liquid banned: NRT products are a) tested and b) much less concentrated. All it would take is to disallow e-juice above a certain (toxic) concentration to be sold, which makes it useless for vaping if you're used to medium or higher strength.

Kava kava extracts disappeared from the shelves overnight after alarm about liver damage was raised somewhere in continental Europe, despite the fact that thousands of people used the stuff for years without problems.

 

[tonyph]

The liver damage stories were the sort of thing I meant in the context of something controversial happening. Kava kava extract has been used by as a beverage for thousands of years and traditional consumers appear to have no adverce effects. In europe it was consumed by different methods, parts of the plant which were traditionaly discarded were used by european companies. It was also mixed with other drugs and alchohol by consumers.
We may get a similer thing with e-juice. I am not sure what the situation with Kava kava is now in the UK, but it is certainly readily available. It would be ironic if the original beverage which caused no problems is banned and the stuff made by commercial western outfits is allowed.

tony

 

[Lithium1330]

Hi to all, this is my first post in this forum, i hope you can excuse my really bad english, i can read it pretty well, but i can't write it too much, well i'm a totally noob at e-smoking just get my first e-cig and to be honest i'm scared to death... i can't believe that i just vap some liquid from god knows where, i don't know what is in there...

This post is very interesting, i think the banning is unavoidable because this really can kill alot of people, all that it needs is a mistake made in China and alot of people could pay de consecuence, we most put more atention to be safe and after that be worry about the banning issue, oooh this is so frustrating i can expres myself, i want to contribuit to this post and i suggest to make our own regulation society, a group that checks the concentration of nicotine on the e-liquids to make it safer, we can try to put together a group of people with the knowlegde to analize the liquid that is sold by the suppliers that agreed to test they liquid just to be a bit sure that what we are vaping will not kill us, lets make the labor that the FDA is not doing.

The hardware is not an issue, we can vap the nicotine even from a cristal pipe heated with a ligther on an extreme case.

Voy a poner mi post en español con la esperanza de que alguien lo pueda traducir, ya que mi inglés es pésimo:

Soy nuevo en esto de e-smoking o vaping y estoy muy asutado al darme cuenta de que ni siquiera sé que fue lo que inhalé ya que el liquido viene sin ninguna indicación, advertencia, o información, sin ninguna regulación y puede contener cualquier cosa y de hecho contiene veneno, la nicotina que en altas concentraciones te mata.

Lo que yo propongo es preocuparnos primero por nuestras vidas y despues preocuparnos por el banning, propongo formar una organización que haga pruebas al liquido que venden los suppliers, siempre y cuando ellos estén dispuesto a que lo evaluemos, yo sé que suena irreal y difícil pero podríamos intentarlo, podríamos intentar hacer el trabajo que la FDA no está haciendo por una u otra razón, eso nos daría tranquilidad a todos los consumidores y además ayudaría a que este nuevo invento crezca.

just my 0.000002 cents.

Saludos!

 

[SANJP]

Hi not sure what you mean in the top part of the post but definately agree with the last few paragraphs

I think...​

 

[bribri]

Extracting nicotine from chewing tobacco isn't *that* hard.

 

[Lithium1330]

how do you do it? it's safe? how do you know the concentration of the resulting nicotine?