The Double RY4 is great at 5% as Levitas said and doesn't need steeping. I am new to DIY and got frustrated as well. I had success at first then a few bad juices. I didn't mix for a couple weeks and was trying to figure out if I was a good fit for DIY. I decided to try some recipes from the recipe board that people liked and I found success. I made sure that they were easy and only one or two flavors per juice. The Double RY4 was one of them. Try to mix a few recipes from the recipe board that sound good to you and have comments from people saying that they liked it. Aside from that just know that there is a learning curve and it is as steep as you make it. Baby steps my friend, baby steps.
Pretty fed up with DIY
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Here's another suggestion for you ... vaping Zone's super concentrates .. most of them are perfect all by themselves and only require 2.5-3% of flavoring. Their Honey Flue Cured is great, I use 3% of the flavoring for it. Have given it to brand new vapers to try as their first vape and they fall in love with it. To make a 30ml bottle of it you only need .9ml of flavoring combined with your VG,PG and nic or to make a 10ml bottle you only need .3ml. vaping Zone has many other super concentrated flavors that are also great, for example their Black & Mild.
TFA Flavors can be really weird. A lot of them need to air out some to lose the funky flowery notes. Before you give up DIY try something really simple:
2 - 3 drops TFA Flue Cured Tobacco Flavor
10 drops Caramel Flavor
2 Drops 10% Ethyl Maltol
Nic and Base to 5 mL total. (I like 50/50, but whatever you like).
Heat some water to boiling in a small dish, then let the vial stand in it uncapped until it cools.
Nothing special, but it is mostly caramelly, vapeable and not nasty. A little sweet for me, but a simple DIY that is pretty much goof proof.
2 - 3 drops TFA Flue Cured Tobacco Flavor
10 drops Caramel Flavor
2 Drops 10% Ethyl Maltol
Nic and Base to 5 mL total. (I like 50/50, but whatever you like).
Heat some water to boiling in a small dish, then let the vial stand in it uncapped until it cools.
Nothing special, but it is mostly caramelly, vapeable and not nasty. A little sweet for me, but a simple DIY that is pretty much goof proof.
Love your post... Toooo funny... I've been at it 'bout a year n' a half... I've mixed a lot of Dirty Gym Socks and Full Litter Box concoctions... I started mixing because I wanted vaping to be as much a hobby as a way to get off cigarettes, plus to reduce costs... Now, with pending FDA reviews and regulations that everyone anticipates, in the near future mixing your own liquid may be the only reasonable way to continue vaping... I've been stockpiling Nic-Liquid for the past several months...
Like everyone else says - keep at it till you find a flavor/flavor mix you enjoy... I like RY4 variants - a strong caramel and vanilla base with a hint of a tobacco then tinker with add-ins; Bavarian Creme, English Toffee, Dulce de Leche, Cherry... Look into Vape Wizard by FlavourArt... I always add a couple of drops to dark mixes... Good luck...
Like everyone else says - keep at it till you find a flavor/flavor mix you enjoy... I like RY4 variants - a strong caramel and vanilla base with a hint of a tobacco then tinker with add-ins; Bavarian Creme, English Toffee, Dulce de Leche, Cherry... Look into Vape Wizard by FlavourArt... I always add a couple of drops to dark mixes... Good luck...
OP, that is so funny I squirted coffee out my nose reading it! I say don't give up. My first try I created something that was similar to the smell of radiator fluid right when you turn off the car and can smell it as you get out. Seriously tasted like that.8-o I got discouraged also but eventually got it. I was adjusting to taste as I go tho. Some flavors I'm running 30% some only 10%. Just gotta dial in with what you are using. I'm sure a lot of vets will say the same. I'm at the point where I can just see the mix and add what it needs. I.E. more ethyl, more dist wat, etc. GL GL !!!! 
For sure!!! It was my first DIY mix, and I tried it 3-4 ways, and every mix tasted pretty good and was instantly vapeable right off the bat! Steeping was not required at all, although I usually did hold the bottle in a sink of hot water for about 5 minutes and give it a few good shakes while it was hot.
I mixed (TFA/TPA Watermelon) at 7-10%, depending on if I was putting anything else in it.
I've mixed it by itself, with EM, w/ just Bavarian cream, with just Koolada (3-4 drops per 5ml) + and 1-2 drops menthol per 5ml. It's very easy to work with, and if you like or can accept fruit flavors it's an easy starter flavor to use and play with until you can come up with a more advanced flavor such as a tobacco or bakery mix, ect. I don't think you could make a bad watermelon, maybe too light in flavor but that would be an easy fix. I suppose it could be overdone maybe, past 20 would be strong I'd imagine, but start in the 7-8% area and you should be fine!
All flavors mentioned above are TFA/TPA for anyone curious later.
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It could be that you don't like the vape on TFA. I noticed that is the only flavoring company you are using.
Before throwing in the towel you might want to try Capellas or something, same exact recipes, see if it's any better for you.
There are some TFA flavors I can't stand, actually, a lot of them.
However, all is not lost. I used the flavorings in my coffee if they are not tobacco, etc.
Hey ... DON'T GIVE UP! I felt like giving up the first few weeks ... but kept trying. Now, I mainly vape my own juice. The only time I actually BUY juice is if there's a great sale.
Try this simple recipe:
8% Caramel (Flavor West Caramel Candy is a good one for this)
7% Vanilla Custard (Capella's is good)
5% Bavarian Cream (any is good)
1 drop sweetener per each 5ml's you make
You might like it!
Good luck!
PS I agree with trying different flavorings ... like Capella's and Flavor West, too. I ONLY use Capella's for certain flavors (especially peanut butter and marshmallow - which I use both a lot).
24mg nic is going to give you a pretty heavy throat hit, especially in 70PG/30VG ratio.
Hey ... DON'T GIVE UP! I felt like giving up the first few weeks ... but kept trying. Now, I mainly vape my own juice. The only time I actually BUY juice is if there's a great sale.
Try this simple recipe:
8% Caramel (Flavor West Caramel Candy is a good one for this)
7% Vanilla Custard (Capella's is good)
5% Bavarian Cream (any is good)
1 drop sweetener per each 5ml's you make
You might like it!
Good luck!
PS I agree with trying different flavorings ... like Capella's and Flavor West, too. I ONLY use Capella's for certain flavors (especially peanut butter and marshmallow - which I use both a lot).
Mmmmmmm. Peanut Butter and Marshmallow. That sounds like a very good combo. I'll have to try that.
Again, Thank you to everyone. I did manage to mix a vapable Apple sample. I believe I also have a vapable sample of Raspberry, which I will try later today. I plan to mix a sample of Watermelon and see how that works out. I will try diluting my 555 mix down to around 2% from the current 5% flavor ratio in a sample batch and see what that does to it. I still don't know what to do about that Maraschino Cherry mix though. For all I know, I may be allergic or sensitive to something in the flavor the way some people are sensitive to PG.
Thanks again everyone. Have a safe and Happy New Year.
Thanks again everyone. Have a safe and Happy New Year.
Way to go neauxanalogs!
I think you now know the feeling of accomplishment we all get when we mix a good batch of e-liquid. I'll never forget the first time I nailed my signature Black Honey Tobacco! I still mix it and can make it consisitently, now, one of my DIY dreams come true.
If I get one I'm disappointed with I re-examine my recipe and go back to the drawing board. After about 4 tries I am finally zeroing in on a decent cigar flavor.
Wait, each batch in the OP was aired out and allowed to oxidize and everyone was bad tasting, but nobody noted that there is a difference between steeping and leaving a bottle open?
Good advice, but I think the whole oxidation thing should be brought up for other newbies' sake.
Good advice, but I think the whole oxidation thing should be brought up for other newbies' sake.
I figured many people who steep intentionally also follow this process (at times). That is, airing out the bottle overnight before allowing it to sit for an amount of time.
Would an initial airing truly alter the taste of a blend so much, as to make it un-vapeable? The possible repercussion of airing is that the flavoring would evaporate out, right? If this is the case, wouldn't it just cause the overall flavor to be weaker, rather than alter the taste itself?
Don't know, but the airing was common to all. Some Nic bases react poorly to air and can leave the last few ml's of a juice more like dregs than juice. And I've found that anise oil flavoring reacts well to airing.
Gotta' try something different to get a different result and it wouldn't take any effort to try a steep with the bottle constantly sealed.
Gotta' try something different to get a different result and it wouldn't take any effort to try a steep with the bottle constantly sealed.
I vaped some right after mixing and it was ok. The koolada was pretty cooling and the watermelon flavor was candy-ish and subtle
After 4-5 days (just sitting in a closed bottle), the koolada effect was less cooling, the throat hit was stronger and the watermelon taste was more prominent and more realistic.
I am a total newb at this - I was aware of steeping but just decided to skip it since I was eager to vape the juice
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I think it is a little unfortunate choice of terminology to say "steeping", because steeping is defined as a process that involves liquid extraction of flavors from a solid material. Now if someone is making their own tobacco extracts, or more commonly probably coffee extract, they may in fact be steeping. If you are mixing liquids in a bottle there is no steeping process because there is no solids and no extraction occurring.
But that is being pedantic, steeping is the word that most people seem to have adopted.
There are a number of things going on, and it is IMO too complex to really make any sort of concrete statements about what is really happening. But we know that chili and spaghetti sauce is never really that good the day it is cooked. It needs to sit in the fridge overnight and be reheated, and by far the best is the stuff that has been in the freezer for a while as long as it has not become freezer burned. In culinary circles the term "marriage" is used, which is presumably a process of blending (flavors soaking in and out of sauce, pulps, meat, beans, etc as well as some chemical reactions occurring). Similarly, many wines and most spirits require lengthy aging, properly served red wines are usually allowed to "breath" after opening while white wines are not etc etc etc.
I think when people quick age capped, two basic things are happening - blending because some components do not mix all that easily, and some acceleration of reaction of the mix, a sort of marriage if you will. I often allow my mixes to heat capped and this is called "reflux" - you can see vapors rise and condense and then drip back down.
Uncapping initially is I think most people attempting to lose some objectionable perfume, chemical, flowery, etc characteristics some of these flavors have. I also do this, but do not store anything long term uncapped afterwards.
Many complex things are happening in subsequent aging, who knows what?
As far as oxidation goes, it certainly happens. Many flavors, example vanilla family, are methoxy and hydroxy benzaldehydes which are rapidly oxidized. In fact these types of compounds are the basis for anti-oxidant additives - they "scrub" oxygen out of a system by preferentially reacting with oxygen before other components can.
Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing just depends on your taste. You may prefer the oxidation, you might also want to experiment further and you may find that you prefer to allow some basic tobacco mix to age, then add for example, some ethyl vanillin to it just before you vape it.
However, the flavors are present in small amounts, I have never seen anyone using any kind of vial that is entirely moisture tight, and not even remotely close to airtight, much less flushing the vial with a blanket of inert gas like nitrogen or helium, and the glycols themselves will dissolve a generous amount of oxygen. I doubt capped versus uncapped has much if any impact on the oxidation of at least some of the commonly used flavors like the vanilla family - it is gonna happen, period.
Long term uncapped aging certainly loses some of the heavier aromatics over time. But another effect, I don't know if it is already well known because I have not searched the forums extensively, is an uncapped bottle is absorbing a considerable amount of water over time, which is acting as a diluent as well as changing the vaping properties, chemical reactions of the mix etc. I have not studied it closely and cannot speak about undisturbed capped bottles, but a typical small dropper bottle in active use will certainly increase in water content.
I personally forego the cost factor and buy flavorings and especialy PG-VG base in small quantities.
None of these considerations are inherently "good" or "bad" - taste is very subjective. Nor does the fact that what is really going on is far too complex for us to get a real handle on it mean that this is all an exercise in futility. It simply underscores the imperative that whatever you do, learn to do it consistently and keep detailed notes Just because you can never know what is really "in the mix" does not mean you cannot make it again with a good degree of success (until of course your vendor screws you, at which point sadly your holy grail of vapes may be lost forever, but what can you do?) ;-)
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Nicely thought out there. I have my mind made up on what steeping means to a DIY mixer and it even has a glancing reference in my blogs. All the prose in the world isn't going to sway what I think that is based on what I've learned over the years.
BTW: If you read my post I just pointed out that the one constant in the OP was airing the mix. I never said it was good or bad to air-out, just that airing and bad taste to the OP was a single constant through the post and the easiest thing to try differently in an attempt to get a different result.
If you mix, sometimes steeping is needed, sometimes airing is needed, usually neither is needed unless dealing with tobacco type flavorings.
I just mixed up a batch of watermelon/lemonade juice this afternoon. I was pretty impatient, as usual, so I just shook it up real good and dumped most of it into a big clearo. Some hits have little flavor, some taste like watermelon, some taste like lemonade. It reminds me of a stew that hasn't had time to come together - I taste the individual flavors and not a cohesive flavor. I will try the remainder next week - I'm expecting it to taste a lot more like watermelon lemonade. I'm not planning on doing anything but just letting it sit in a closed bottle.
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