DIY Help - Fruity mixes

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Good Day Everyone

Trust you all are well

So i started today with my first ever attempt at DIY juice mixing.

I enjoy full on fruity mixes the most and adding to that i love the sweet fruity mixes that are ice cold (malaysian vape juice style) (sweet syrupy fruit juice)

So my first attempt was for a lychee, peach, strawberry mix - end result was very mute overall with the peach overpowering everything.

Second batch i tried came out almost the same even after i decreased the peach concentrate drastically.

I also tried to mix a mango and strawberry - still very mute

Can anyone share some recipes that i can test?

This is what i current have
Peach (TFA)
Lychee (FW)
Apple Double (FW)
Raspberry (HS)
Kiwi Natural (ooo)
Sweet Mango (CAP)
Sweetener (TFA)
Sweet Strawberry (CAP)
Black Ice (BV)
Koolada (TFA)
BlackBerry (TFA)
Blueberry (Extra) (TFA)
Berry Mix (TFA)

Pre-mixed PG/VG/Nic 30/70/3
PG
VG
36ml/100 nic pg base
 
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Shadav

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thehelpline.info
    what % were you mixing the flavors at
    peach %
    Lychee %
    strawberry %

    same with the mango and strawberry

    are you new to vaping or have you been vaping awhile?
    if new you may need higher %
    if not new then disregard
    typically you want to aim between 10% and 15% total flavoring
    if you have a hard time tasting things then you will need to aim between 20% and 30%
     

    Shadav

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      you can try
      upload_2019-6-3_14-11-16.png
       
      @Shadav

      Thank you for the reply.

      The lychee, peach and Strawberry mix was actually the lychee peach V1 as above and same ratio. I did however add 0.5% black ice to the first batch and 2% to the second batch.

      Secondly, i have veen vaping for around 3 years mainly local produced juices (amazing quality and exceptional flavour)

      Its as if the batches i did today was just harsh vaper with muted/bland tast. Would steeping the liquid help much? I read some topics where people said that steeping fruity juice does not do much
       

      Shadav

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      thehelpline.info
        fruit usually doesn't really need steeping but because of the black ice it may need steeping...
        that recipe is only 15% so if you are used to commercial juices you may need to bump it up to 20%
        so try maybe something more like
        Lychee 9%
        Peach 7%
        Strawberry 3%
        Black Ice .5%
        total = 19.5%
         
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        Shadav

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        thehelpline.info
          from my understanding with mango you really need 2 different mangos to make it taste flavorful, same really with strawberry, I use both Strawberry and Ripe Strawberry to make a decent strawberry flavor
          so something more like
          Strawberry 6%
          Ripe Strawberry 6%
          Sweet Mango 4%
          Some other mango 4%
          Black Ice .5%
          Total = 20.5%
           
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          fruit usually doesn't really need steeping but because of the black ice it may need steeping...
          that recipe is only 15% so if you are used to commercial juices you may need to bump it up to 20%
          so try maybe something more like
          Lychee 9%
          Peach 7%
          Strawberry 3%
          Black Ice .5%
          total = 19.5%
          Ill definitely give it a try tomorrow, really hoping to get a semi decent flavour from DIY mixing seeing as the local juice is not budget friendly when you vape 30ml a day.

          Ill also mix a simple single flavour just to test the % of flavour needed.
           
          from my understanding with mango you really need 2 different mangos to make it taste flavorful, same really with strawberry, I use both Strawberry and Ripe Strawberry to make a decent strawberry flavor
          so something more like
          Strawberry 6%
          Ripe Strawberry 6%
          Sweet Mango 4%
          Some other mango 4%
          Black Ice .5%
          Total = 20.5%

          Ill pick up another mango and see what the outcome is when mixing two mango concentrates together

          I do appreciate the helpful information.

          Whats your take on sweetener? I read a lot of forums saying it mutes flavour as well
           

          Shadav

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          thehelpline.info
            feel free to join us on over at Random DIY mixing and More
            mango isn't my thing but there's a lot of folks in there that can help

            I would suggest layering the fruits with 2 different types to help so 2 different strawberries 2 different peaches and maybe 2 different lychee (not sure on that one) but for the strawberry and mango it's almost a must to layer them
             
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            feel free to join us on over at Random DIY mixing and More
            mango isn't my thing but there's a lot of folks in there that can help

            I would suggest layering the fruits with 2 different types to help so 2 different strawberries 2 different peaches and maybe 2 different lychee (not sure on that one) but for the strawberry and mango it's almost a must to layer them

            Thank you, i will following that thread and keep an eye on stuff that can help me
             
            Maybe you can try a simple black and blue:
            blackberry 4.5%
            blueberry 7.5%
            I'm not familiar with black ice, but if it is similar to ws23 then add a few drops.

            Ill give the black & blue a go tomorrow, the black ice is a variation of ws23 yes. I only felt it at 2% in the mix, when adding 0.5% it was almost nonexistent
             
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            dennism

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              Ill give the black & blue a go tomorrow, the black ice is a variation of ws23 yes. I only felt it at 2% invoice the mix, when adding 0.5% it was almost nonexistent
              When mixing for myself I don't add ws23. When mixing for a friend I add .5% ws23, she likes a cooler mix. If 2% black ice works for you try it, or you can try it without the black ice and add it to taste later.
              Note: this recipe was given to me by someone on the forums, I can't remember who, but I thank her.
               
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              ShowMeTwice

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                @Shadav

                Thank you for the reply.

                The lychee, peach and Strawberry mix was actually the lychee peach V1 as above and same ratio. I did however add 0.5% black ice to the first batch and 2% to the second batch.

                Secondly, i have veen vaping for around 3 years mainly local produced juices (amazing quality and exceptional flavour)

                Its as if the batches i did today was just harsh vaper with muted/bland tast. Would steeping the liquid help much? I read some topics where people said that steeping fruity juice does not do much
                Hi StaticVaporSA! :)

                With the the Lychee Peach V1 you made, as posted above, I would lower the FA Peach by half to 3%. In my experience 6% is too high and will mute. I would also drop the FA Lychee down from 8% to 1%. FA Lychee at 8% is serious overkill IMO. I believe that would be a good starting point for both + the CAP Sweet Strawberry is fine at 1.5%.

                The reason it's muted is because those FA flavors are too high IMO. FlavourArt flavors are more concentrated than TPA or CAP for example so you need to use less of the FA.

                Generally speaking fruit mixes are shake n vape. Personally I would give the Lychee Peach V1 recipe a minimum 2-3 day steep.

                My take on sweeteners, for someone starting out, is very simple ... don't go there until you understand how and when to use them. I do not use sweeteners at all. My reasoning is very simple .. there are many many flavors that are already sweet and knowing how to balance a recipe will get you sweet minus sweeteners. Try to make some recipes without any. There are plenty of great recipes here and out there. YMMV

                I would skip the black ice until you have the recipe to your liking and then add it.

                Here is a link to a PDF called DIY Information put together by Marc411 and I believe you may find it helpful as you delve deeper into DIY DIY Getting started cheat sheet - good information gathered from ECF

                HIC's note on FA Peach:
                FA Peach
                Sweet, ripe, juicy, yellow peaches. Using very high percentages of Peach can oddly reduce the flavor intensity. If you are one of the people who find FA Peach just not strong enough, try adding a little FA White Peach. The flavor combination is excellent - very authentic fresh peaches. Small additions of FA Pear can sweeten.

                Go and download HIC's notes on FlavourArt flavors. It is free to download. You will learn much:
                Notes, etc.

                Hope that helps and good luck! :)
                 

                IDJoel

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                  With the the Lychee Peach V1 you made, as posted above, I would lower the FA Peach by half to 3%. In my experience 6% is too high and will mute. I would also drop the FA Lychee down from 8% to 1%. FA Lychee at 8% is serious overkill IMO. I believe that would be a good starting point for both + the CAP Sweet Strawberry is fine at 1.5%.

                  The reason it's muted is because those FA flavors are too high IMO. FlavourArt flavors are more concentrated than TPA or CAP for example so you need to use less of the FA.
                  I think(?) OP subbed TFA Peach, and FW Kiwi, for the FA called for in the screen shot. At least, that is what I interpreted, based on the OP's list of available ingredients in their first post.

                  While still "higher" percentages; I don't see them being in the "muting" range. Just my opinion... :)
                  My take on sweeteners, for someone starting out, is very simple ... don't go there until you understand how and when to use them. I do not use sweeteners at all. My reasoning is very simple .. there are many many flavors that are already sweet and knowing how to balance a recipe will get you sweet minus sweeteners. Try to make some recipes without any. There are plenty of great recipes here and out there. YMMV
                  I generally agree with this; especially with TFA Sweetener... as it contains both sucralose, and maltol. CAP Super Sweet is a better choice; as it is only sucralose. Maltol is a serious flavor killer, and you are right, it is already present in many flavor concentrates.

                  My only reservation, in @StaticVaporSA's case, is they are comparing (trying to simulate) "syrupy" commercial e-liquids they are familiar with. I don't see how they can do that without the use of a sweetener (preferably CAP Super Sweet;)).

                  Instead, I might be inclined to suggest this:
                  Start with only the fruit flavors (no sweetener, or coolant). Get those tasting as intended... knowing the "sweet, syrupy" aspect will be missing. The mixture, as is... without sweetener, may taste dry/thin/or incomplete. That is okay. You are only looking for the right balance/ratios of one fruit, to the others, at this point.

                  Once the fruits are balanced as desired; then, begin adding sweetener, about 0.5% at a time... until desired sweetness is achieved. Then, repeat with coolant.

                  Note about the "Black Ice:" I am not certain, but it appears(?) to be a 20% concentration of WS-23, and not the more common 30% concentration we are used to, here in the U.S.. As such, it is not unreasonable to expect, that half again as much would be required for the same effect.

                  I would also say to @StaticVaporSA; that neither sweetener, nor WS-23/Black Ice, require any steeping. Therefore, they can be easily be added to an otherwise "finished" mix (to taste) without adding additional steep time.

                  I have found from my experience, that fruit concentrates can be true "shake & vapes," especially when used at lower percentages. However, many still benefit from a short steep (+/- 72 hours). Fruits, in particular, can have an initial chemical/artificial taste to them, and this becomes more noticeable the higher the percentage used (it is often one of the signs that you are over-flavoring).

                  First, try using less. If the flavor is too weak at lower percentages; let it rest for up to a week. This often allows the unwanted notes to dissipate.

                  If the harshness, or artificial/chemical notes are still too unpleasant, you can try to breathe/vent the mixture. ("Breathing" is the act of leaving the mixture sit uncovered (no cap, and no drip tip) to allow the volatile chemicals (like ethanol) to evaporate.) Let the mixture breathe for a couple of hours, to overnight, and retest. If, after that time, nothing improves; further breathing will not be beneficial. (Breathing can be damaging to more aromatic flavors (many lemons, some strawberries, etc.); so, always, use sparingly... if at all.)

                  Finally, if lower percentages are not an option, and breathing hasn't helped; the addition of a sweetener can help to take the sharp edges off. Start with no more than 0.5%, and incrementally increase (I would personally go up 0.25% at a time) the sweetener as needed. Do watch for flavor muting as you do so.

                  These are more advanced mixing techniques. They can bugger up a mixture as fast as fix it. So, go slowly... test vape frequently... and STOP if (at any point) it seems to start to go sideways (additional tweaking won't fix it; start over). Read this Myth Busting article (some excellent general new mixer advice) for context.

                  Also, mix small test batches... 10mL should be plenty... 5mL might even be enough for the initial fruit-only mixes. Conserve your ingredients. The initial goal should be to get an enjoyable mix. Creating a surplus supply should wait until you have a known "successful" recipe. Small batches are also easier to throw out (vs. feeling like you have to "fix" them).

                  And my final piece of advice: take notes on everything you do. Note, every mix variation, every treatment you apply. It will save you making the same mistake twice. And, it will allow you to repeat successful results. Nothing is more discouraging, than to get it "absolutely perfect," and never be able to repeat it. Notes can help prevent that. ;)

                  Best wishes as you begin your journey of DIY... and welcome to ECF! :D
                   

                  Letitia

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                    Fruits do need at least some steep imo, 3 days is okay, better at 10 days. There are very few flavors good off the shake. Most peach flavors will take over if not allowed a steep to mellow them out. Subbing flavor brands is fine and usually work but are seldom a 1:1 sub. Watching some youtube flavor notes and reading flavor notes on elr recipes or reddit are very helpful with sub percentages.
                     
                    Hi StaticVaporSA! :)

                    With the the Lychee Peach V1 you made, as posted above, I would lower the FA Peach by half to 3%. In my experience 6% is too high and will mute. I would also drop the FA Lychee down from 8% to 1%. FA Lychee at 8% is serious overkill IMO. I believe that would be a good starting point for both + the CAP Sweet Strawberry is fine at 1.5%.

                    The reason it's muted is because those FA flavors are too high IMO. FlavourArt flavors are more concentrated than TPA or CAP for example so you need to use less of the FA.

                    Generally speaking fruit mixes are shake n vape. Personally I would give the Lychee Peach V1 recipe a minimum 2-3 day steep.

                    My take on sweeteners, for someone starting out, is very simple ... don't go there until you understand how and when to use them. I do not use sweeteners at all. My reasoning is very simple .. there are many many flavors that are already sweet and knowing how to balance a recipe will get you sweet minus sweeteners. Try to make some recipes without any. There are plenty of great recipes here and out there. YMMV

                    I would skip the black ice until you have the recipe to your liking and then add it.

                    Here is a link to a PDF called DIY Information put together by Marc411 and I believe you may find it helpful as you delve deeper into DIY DIY Getting started cheat sheet - good information gathered from ECF

                    HIC's note on FA Peach:
                    FA Peach
                    Sweet, ripe, juicy, yellow peaches. Using very high percentages of Peach can oddly reduce the flavor intensity. If you are one of the people who find FA Peach just not strong enough, try adding a little FA White Peach. The flavor combination is excellent - very authentic fresh peaches. Small additions of FA Pear can sweeten.

                    Go and download HIC's notes on FlavourArt flavors. It is free to download. You will learn much:
                    Notes, etc.

                    Hope that helps and good luck! :)

                    @ShowMeTwice

                    Firstly, thank you very much for all the information in your post. I will definitely check out all the links and do my best to learn how everything works.

                    Regarding my first batch, i subbed the Peach FA with Peach from TFA seeing as this is the only prach i have. But i will be getting more concentrates in this week.

                    Ill definitely leave out the black ice and sweetener until i have a ratio of fruit the way i like it.
                     
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