Probvlem with LDPE plastic bottles

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glassmanoak

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I have a small box where I keep bottles of ejuice I’m not currently vaping. Recently, I pulled out one bottle that was lying on its side. There was a very viscous fluid inside which was an opaque white and stuck to the walls of the bottle. The bottle contained an ejuice that had only VG, TFA Sour Green Apple and TFA Cinnamon RedHots (No Nicotine).

The bottle was made of LDPE ( Low Density Polyethylene). LDPE and PET (Polyethylene terephthalate) are 2 types of plastic bottles sold throughout the ejuice suppliers for use by DIYers like myself.
Cinnamon is well-known to cause problems with polycarbonate plastic tanks. Seeing this thick, white gunk inside a bottle which used to have almost clear, vapable ejuice make me wonder if the ejuice dissolved some of the plastic from the bottle.
Frankly, this scares the hell out of me because almost all the ejuice I make is in LDPE bottles. Anyone want to address this problem for me? I surely would appreciate it!


LDPE0001.jpg
 

meli.

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The only way I can see a solution to this is going with glass. Although the lids make me ask the same question.
I contacted my glass bottle provider, ampulla.co.uk and they suggested using self-sealing inert polypropylene caps.
I transfered all my liquids including flavour concentrates into glass.
The only problem this poses is having to use syringes and pipettes to get the liquids out. Which isn't reeeally a problem.
And try to keep all bottles upright just in case.
That pic really is scary tho.:blink:
 

glassmanoak

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jackbox

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:ohmy:jackbox, that ^ was a Clear See Through Polyethylene Bottle when it started it's life.
The Liquids/Flavours leeched the plastic and made it go White.
Very Bad!
Glass is Better.

Wow, that is bad then. I have had two bottles of TPA Cinnamon Red Hot at 5% and 10% for about three or four months without anything like that. I wonder if the apple and cinnamon reacted together somehow? Very strange. Yes, glass is definitely better.
 

glassmanoak

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I use PP and PE bottles and have stored Cinnamon ejuice and others like it for months with no problems. Mine is the clear and frost clear PP and PE. Not white plastic like you show in your OP.

Meli was absolutely correct. The bottle was LDPE plastic and kinda frosty and squeezable and the juice was almost clear. Just ordinary no nic ejuice.


Have you heard of an Ester and how they can be used as a Plasticizer?

I googled 'ester and plasticizer" and I'm as clueless as I was before. I have at least 4 bottles that are exact duplicates of this bottle. Same bottle, same contents, same age and made at the same time because I had only 10 ml bottles, at the time. It really blew my mind when I found this particular bottle because it made me afraid that all the other juices I have made were dissolving their bottles without such visible evidence.
 
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glassmanoak

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That's the part that makes no sense, identical bottles, but only one shows this reaction.

Something has to be different. I'm going to guess it was a bad bottle. Something went wrong when that bottle was molded. Too much mold release or another component was missing. Very odd stuff.

I have to agree Hossier. Something has to be different. Both bottles were from the same purchase. Maybe having the bottle on its side offered more exposure to LDPE plastic or the plastic top. The inside of the top cap is slightly moist, but the dropper is totally clogged with the thick white gunk.
It definitely has me puzzled.
 

salemgold

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There are many threads on ECF that talk about plasticides leaching into ejuice and the fact that plastic bottles are not good for storing our liquids in. I have been using glass bottles to store all of my juice and all of my liquid juice making ingredients for quite some time. It is true that ejuice will affect the rubber bulbs on the glass droppers with time and you do have to replace the droppers to avoid having them leak.
 

glassmanoak

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Very strange indeed!
Grasping at straws here, but were these bottles washed/cleaned before use?

yup
:(

There are many threads on ECF that talk about plasticides leaching into ejuice and the fact that plastic bottles are not good for storing our liquids in. I have been using glass bottles to store all of my juice and all of my liquid juice making ingredients for quite some time. It is true that ejuice will affect the rubber bulbs on the glass droppers with time and you do have to replace the droppers to avoid having them leak.

My problem is that there is no way for me to be able to buy glass bottles for all the different flavors I make and give away. Plastic is my only possible solution. BUT, I will definitely use up all the extra juice I have sitting around before I make any more for myself. Unfortunately, the people I give juice to are gonna have to take of their own glass vs. plastic issues.
 
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zoiDman

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...

I googled 'ester and plasticizer" and I'm as clueless as I was before. I have at least 4 bottles that are exact duplicates of this bottle. Same bottle, same contents, same age and made at the same time because I had only 10 ml bottles, at the time. It really blew my mind when I found this particular bottle because it made me afraid that all the other juices I have made were dissolving their bottles without such visible evidence.

In a Nutshell, Plasticizers make things Softer. In things like Plastics, if they weren't used, the Many Plastics would be Too Brittle to use.

PVC Pipe when New is relatively Ductile. But over time becomes Brittle. This is because the Plasticizers that were Added have Evaporated. But if there is Too Much Plasticizer that the Plastic can Degrade into Mush.

Some Esters are Very Efficient Plasticizers. And Ester can form on their own. All my Hard Plastic Mouth Pieces in my Filler Type Cartos turned gum and some of my Bottle got Weak when I used Cinnamon Oil Based e-Liquid.

I stopped Using Cinnamon Flavors after seeing what it did to Some Plastic.




From: Plasticizer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
----

For plastics

Plasticizers for plastics are additives, most commonly phthalate ester. Almost 90% of the market for plasticizer is for PVC, giving this material improved flexibility and durability.[1] Plasticizers work by embedding themselves between the chains of polymers, spacing them apart (increasing the "free volume"), and thus significantly lowering the glass transition temperature for the plastic and making it softer. For plastics such as PVC, the more plasticizer added, the lower its cold flex temperature will be. This means that it will be more flexible and its durability will increase as a result of it. Plasticizers evaporate and tend to concentrate in an enclosed space; the "new car smell" is caused mostly by plasticizers evaporating from the car interior.

Plasticizers make it possible to achieve improved compound processing characteristics, while also providing flexibility in the end-use product. Ester plasticizers are selected based upon cost-performance evaluation. The rubber compounder must evaluate ester plasticizers for compatibility, processibility, permanence and other performance properties. The wide variety of ester chemistries that are in production include sebacates, adipates, gluterates, phthalates, azelates, and other specialty blends. This broad product line provides an array of performance benefits required for the many elastomer applications such as tubing and hose products, seals and gaskets, belts, wire and cable and print rolls. Low to high polarity esters provide utility in a wide range of elastomers including nitrile, polychloroprene, EPDM, chlorinated polyethylene, and epichlorohydrin. Plasticizer-elastomer interaction is governed by many factors such as solubility parameter, molecular weight and chemical structure. Compatibility and performance attributes are key factors in developing a rubber formulation for a particular application.[2]

Plasticizers also function as softeners, extenders, and lubricants, and play a significant role in rubber manufacturing.


Ester plasticizers

Plasticizers used in PVC and other plastics are often based on esters of polycarboxylic acids with linear or branched aliphatic alcohols of moderate chain length. These compounds are selected on the basis of many critieria including low toxicity, compatibility with the host material, nonvolatility, and expense. Phthalate esters of C8 alcohols meet these specifications and common plasticizers.
 

meli.

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My problem is that there is no way for me to be able to buy glass bottles for all the different flavors I make and give away. Plastic is my only possible solution. BUT, I will definitely use up all the extra juice I have sitting around before I make any more for myself. Unfortunately, the people I give juice to are gonna have to take of their own glass vs. plastic issues.
You can still keep your own stuff in glass and transfer to plastic for others.
This puzzles me, you make juice and give it away? How much juice do you give away? Do you mean for Nothing?
 

glassmanoak

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I stopped Using Cinnamon Flavors after seeing what it did to Some Plastic.

Thanks! I'm going to digest all this and post again later.

You can still keep your own stuff in glass and transfer to plastic for others.
This puzzles me, you make juice and give it away? How much juice do you give away? Do you mean for Nothing?

I'm definitely looking into glass! And yes, I do give away quite a bit. I have 2 grand-nephews who got me into vaping and this is my attempt at Paying-It-Forward. Their mother and I share the expense and I make lots of juice for them. They will be in town this weekend and will take home about 250 ml each in 10 to 12 different flavors.
I also share with a few people that I've met on the forums. I enjoy DIY as a hobby and it gives me an excuse to try to invent new concoctions.
 
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zoiDman

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Thanks! I'm going to digest all this and post again later.

...

I used Cinnamon Oils when it First got Popular as a Flavoring. A true Face Melting hit.

But then I started seeing posts about being Cavity Free for life and in 6 months they had 3 or 4. And then the Cracking and Melting of the Plastics started to surface. Too Many Weird events for me to feel Comfortable using Cinnamon anymore.

Another thing to remember. You Can't see Radon in Air. You Can't see Lead in Water. And you Can't see BPA in Plastics.

Just because you Plastic Bottle or Drip Tip doesn't turn into Mash Potatoes Doesn't mean that a Flavoring isn't causing a Plastic to Degrade.

---

BTW - "Digest" is a Great choice of words for this issue. ;)
 
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