Prohibition - PBS Video - Ken Burns (a history lessen for tobacco prohibitionism)

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Bill Godshall

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Prohibition - PBS Video - Ken Burns (a history lesson for tobacco prohibitionism)
Episode One: A Nation of Drunkards | Ken Burns | PBS Video Episode One - A Nation of Drunkards
http://video.pbs.org/video/17759137 Episode Two - A Nation of Scofflaws
Episode Three: A Nation of Hypocrites | Ken Burns | PBS Video Episode Three - A Nation of Hypocrites

I strongly recommend this excellent three part series for those who didn't see it earlier this week on PBS.

These weblinks also should be sent to all tobacco prohibitionists.
 
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tonyorion

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Prohibition turned the Mafia into a Fortune Company. Drugs go a few thousands steps beyond that. AT least the Mafia, as lawless as it was, made very surgical kills in its internicine wars.

The drug kings have no scrupples whatsoever: men, women, children, innoncent bystandanders. They have succeded in overfilling our jails, crippling the legal system both here and abroad, and generally doing what they please- not to mention creating stress on our police by forcing these junkies into a life of crime to support their habits..

Just think what would happen if we took the profit motive out!

The war on drugs is a monumental failure, as was prohibition. The drug cartels have the money to do what they want. They even have submarines to smuggle the garbage into the US.
 

Uma

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Good Lord! I can't believe the close similarities in the same backhanded sly lies and crusades. The TP's are so following in their footsteps... they are going "by the book".

If only Ken Burns would do doc on our fight. I love Ken Burns. Even if he trashed the eCig I'd still have to give him a Kudos for his style and grace and most of all his depth of research. Fortunately, I don't see how any educated person, especially an intelligent and fair person like Ken, could ever trash the eCig as a replacement for traditional cigs.


came back to say: Bummers, part 2 & 3 aren't available yet. Check back.
 
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Stubby

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Parts 2 and 3 were available a few days ago. Don't know what the problem is on that one as they are not there now.

As of yet there are only a few people calling for prohibition on tobacco, and they are the most fanatical. The problem is that we are getting a de facto prohibition via taxes and restrictions on where and what we can use. Some of it is understandable, as in second hand smoke (though it is being taken to far). Others, as in restrictions on employment because of tobacco/nicotine use is stepping well over the line.

One of the major problems with tobacco is taxes. Besides being a hugh burden for lower income people, it is also where we are moving into the realm of unintended consequences. Food insecurity is a big problem for children of lower income parents who smoke. If the choice is between high quality food or low quality food, and cigarettes, guess what's going to happen. Insane tax rates are also rapidly pushing tobacco into the black market where there is millions, if not billions to be made. Much of what has been done the last few years has been to cut off any and all means of getting tobacco on the cheap. One of the first bills signed in 2009 by Obama was the SCHIP bill which raised the taxes on RYO cigarette tobacco by about 2500% on a federal level. This was one of the last resorts for lower income people to get legal low cost cigarettes.

I don't know how the bums where I live can afford to smoke, but they sure are puffing up a storm. I see it everyday. No one can tell me they are paying $7.00 a pack. The black market is alive and well and growing. Thanks a lot for that one Bill Godshall. For all the good you are attempting to do you really missed the boat on the tax issue, along with the silly pictures on cigarette packs.

There are areas of Canada where 50% of all cigarettes are untaxed black market. Youth smoking rates are going up because of cheap smokes. They appear to be not asking for ID's. Silly them, don't they know that's illegal.

Time to lower tobacco taxes.... for the children
 
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Uma

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Perhaps there hasn't really been an "official" TP group vocalized, but they sure have been following the book of deceit previously outlined by the AP's.

ie...
1. demanding abstinence rather than educating for freedom of choice.
2. closing down the bars, saloons, ... banning the smokers, ooops, smoking from bars, restaurants, streets, homes, work, even in your own cars in some towns.
3. spreading lies in order to justify their cause. One drink will destroy your liver and kill you. AKA One 2nd or even 3rd hand smoke will kill you, your baby, your neighbor and your country (from miles away.)
4. Involving the children. Propaganding the cause to the children. Educating the children to shame adults, even their own family, into a life of alienation.
5. Alienating.
6. and so forth
 

Bill Godshall

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Stubby wrote:

As of yet there are only a few people calling for prohibition on tobacco, and they are the most fanatical.

Not so.

More than a decade ago, the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Hong Kong banned the sale of snus (largely due to lobbying by tobacco prohibitionist Greg Connolly, who used to be director of the Massachusetts Tobacco Control Program and is now at Harvard writing junk science and fearmongering articles about smokefree tobacco alternatives).

A decade ao, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA and others successfully petitioned the FDA to ban the sale of Nicotine Water claiming it was an unapproved food product, and to ban the sale of a nicotine lozenge product that was manufactured/marketed by a pharmacist to smokers as a less hazardous cigarette substitute.

At that same time, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, GlaxoSmithKline and others unsuccessfully petitioned the FDA to ban the sale of Star's Ariva and Stonewall dissolvable tobacco products, claiming that they looked like "candy", were marketed to youth, were nearly identical to GSK's Nicorette lozenges, and were NOT proven to be Safe or Effective (for smoking cessation).

Several years ago, the FDA banned Nicogel skin cream, claiming it was being marketed as an "unapproved drug device".

In 2009, after being urged to do so by CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH and Frank Lautenberg, the FDA attempted to ban e-cigarette sales by adding the products to the import ban list, by claiming they were unapproved drug devices, and by claiming they contained toxins and carcinogens. Legislation was also introduced in 7 states and several municipalities to ban the sale of e-cigarettes, which was advocated by CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH and others.

Many other countries have also banned e-cigarette sales at the request of tobacco prohibitionistists.

Also in 2009, US Senators Sherid Brown and Jeff Merkley called for a ban on dissolvable tobacco products at the Senate HELP Committee markup session on the FSPTCA legislation when they got the bill amended to require the FDA to conduct a study and report on dissolvable tobacco products.

Since then, GSK, Legacy and other have urged the FDA to ban dissolvable tobacco products, as have CTFK, ALA, AHA and others at the state/local levels.

During the past year, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH, Legacy and others have urged the FDA to ban menthol cigarettes.

Unwarranted tobacco product usage bans (e.g. banning indoor use of e-cigarettes and/or smokeless tobacco products and banning outdoor smoking in locations where 2nd hand smoke poses very little if any risk to others) can also be considered tobacco prohibition.

Although calls for outright prohibition on all tobacco products, sales, usage and/or possession haven't occurred yet in the US, tobacco prohibitionists will do so if/when they believe that doing so is achievable.

Until then, tobacco prohibitionists will continue to be what I call "opportunistic prohibitionists", who strategically demand and lobby for prohibition of selective tobacco products (usually very low risk new tobacco products) because they have little market share and because their manufacturers/consumers are less likely to mount effective opposition campaigns) and before selective authorities in selective jurisdictions (where they are more likely to obtain the votes needed for enactment).
 

Uma

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Uma wrote



I suspect that PBS removed them from their website because Ken Burns (during an interview on CSPAN last week) stated that PBS is planning to soon market DVDs of the three part series for about $20.
yeh, I kind of got that impression just from the website itself, but hoped my impression was wrong. I guess I better save up 20 bucks for the DVD set.
 

Uma

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My kids informed me that just light night they saw a new Anti-smoking commercial that displayed 12,000 dead people laying in the streets... supposedly to represent the 12,000 who die from smoking every day. We need to come up with our own commercials... one that shows 12,000 dead people in the streets because they were denied safer alternatives to smoking.
 

Bill Godshall

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The advertisement Uma described above was probably made by the American Legacy Foundation (as they've made a half dozen different ads similar to that description, or laying hundreds of body bags somewhere and then filming it).

But unlike us normal folks, Legacy has received and spent Billions of dollars (from the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement between tobacco companies and the states) to fund and conduct anti tobacco programs, ads, research, etc.

Although some of Legacy original ads a decade ago were clever and effective at educating youth of cigarette risks, most of their ads (and funded programs and research) during the past five years have been ineffective or counterproductive wastes of money.
 

Stubby

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Stubby wrote:



Not so.

More than a decade ago, the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Hong Kong banned the sale of snus (largely due to lobbying by tobacco prohibitionist Greg Connolly, who used to be director of the Massachusetts Tobacco Control Program and is now at Harvard writing junk science and fearmongering articles about smokefree tobacco alternatives).

A decade ao, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA and others successfully petitioned the FDA to ban the sale of Nicotine Water claiming it was an unapproved food product, and to ban the sale of a nicotine lozenge product that was manufactured/marketed by a pharmacist to smokers as a less hazardous cigarette substitute.

At that same time, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, GlaxoSmithKline and others unsuccessfully petitioned the FDA to ban the sale of Star's Ariva and Stonewall dissolvable tobacco products, claiming that they looked like "candy", were marketed to youth, were nearly identical to GSK's Nicorette lozenges, and were NOT proven to be Safe or Effective (for smoking cessation).

Several years ago, the FDA banned Nicogel skin cream, claiming it was being marketed as an "unapproved drug device".

In 2009, after being urged to do so by CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH and Frank Lautenberg, the FDA attempted to ban e-cigarette sales by adding the products to the import ban list, by claiming they were unapproved drug devices, and by claiming they contained toxins and carcinogens. Legislation was also introduced in 7 states and several municipalities to ban the sale of e-cigarettes, which was advocated by CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH and others.

Many other countries have also banned e-cigarette sales at the request of tobacco prohibitionistists.

Also in 2009, US Senators Sherid Brown and Jeff Merkley called for a ban on dissolvable tobacco products at the Senate HELP Committee markup session on the FSPTCA legislation when they got the bill amended to require the FDA to conduct a study and report on dissolvable tobacco products.

Since then, GSK, Legacy and other have urged the FDA to ban dissolvable tobacco products, as have CTFK, ALA, AHA and others at the state/local levels.

During the past year, CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, ASH, Legacy and others have urged the FDA to ban menthol cigarettes.

Unwarranted tobacco product usage bans (e.g. banning indoor use of e-cigarettes and/or smokeless tobacco products and banning outdoor smoking in locations where 2nd hand smoke poses very little if any risk to others) can also be considered tobacco prohibition.

Although calls for outright prohibition on all tobacco products, sales, usage and/or possession haven't occurred yet in the US, tobacco prohibitionists will do so if/when they believe that doing so is achievable.

Until then, tobacco prohibitionists will continue to be what I call "opportunistic prohibitionists", who strategically demand and lobby for prohibition of selective tobacco products (usually very low risk new tobacco products) because they have little market share and because their manufacturers/consumers are less likely to mount effective opposition campaigns) and before selective authorities in selective jurisdictions (where they are more likely to obtain the votes needed for enactment).

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement and said "As of yet there are only a few people calling for prohibition on all tobacco, and they are the most fanatical."

I am very much aware of the attacks on smokeless alternatives. In fact it is the least harmful tobacco/nicotine products that are under the greatest attack. Snus, dissolvables, and electronic cigarettes get a hugh amount of attention from TC groups. They are consistently being portrayed as a grave threat to the children, along with every other piece of propaganda and misinformation they can throw at it.

The reason is obvious, the least harmful tobacco products are the greatest threat to the tobacco control industry, and that includes BP. There are many millions of dollars flowing into these groups and lots of folks are making a very good living off of the current situation. Lets not rock the boat seems to be the call to arms.

A problem for TC, besides an increase in the use of tobacco harm reduction products, is the growing black market. Larry Waters in his latest article at Snus Central states that 40% of cigarettes sold in NJ are illegal and untaxed. This is economics 101. Taxation has been prohibition via the back door and we are getting the same results we had with alcohol. There is a high profit margin in black market tobacco so this isn't going to go away.

So what's next, a war on illegal untaxed tobacco. I get a feeling the TC groups wouldn't mind that one as it will keep them in business for a long time. Like the war on drugs, it's a never ending war.
 
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kristin

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This is a great series. Ken Burns has a knack for keeping the viewer entertained. I could listen to Peter Coyote for hours on end. Ken Burns last documentary National Parks is worth watching also if you enjoyed this.

:)Wiz!

My husband and I are currently working our way through the National Parks series on NetFlix - I think we are on hours 6-7 of something like 12 hours (I believe it's 6 - 2 hour episodes.)

It's fascinating, just like his Civil War series.

I can't wait to watch this one on Prohibition!
 
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