Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[pjmarkert]

I have been using tightly wound micro coils in my protank IIs with the aerotank bases and have always used cotton wick and cotton flavor wick on top. On a whim I left out the flavor wick and OMG the taste and vapor production improved tremendously. With the right amount of cotton I can vape it down to almost dry with no leaking or gurgling. With the flavor wick I was getting too tight of a draw after about a week, and that has disappeared without the flavor wick. I am using 30ga kanthal 7 turns on a 1/16" drill form using Mac's method, for about 1.5 to 1.6 ohms firing at 8 watts on my sigelei Legend. Just learned about the aerotank mega and am going to try that one next. I stopped using silica wick after seeing photos of a drip tip hole covered with fine shards of silica under magnification.

 

[f1vefour]

I use three strands of peaches and cream yarn braided together for my nano coil bed, produces nice flavor straight away without boiling.

 

[pjmarkert]

I use plain old walmart cotton balls straight out of the bag!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I use plain old walmart cotton balls straight out of the bag!

Hey PJ. Can't believe no one's come on this thread in two weeks to pick up on this theme. Pretty much same here with the organics from CVS. But recently I've started to formally test Japanese cotton varieties and they have some exceptional qualities.

I think this thread needs a facelift to bring it a year into the future.

Hope your vape's goin' strong.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Hey PJ. Can't believe no one's come on this thread in two weeks to pick up on this theme. Pretty much same here with the organics from CVS. But recently I've started to formally test Japanese cotton varieties and they have some exceptional qualities.

I think this thread needs a facelift to bring it a year into the future.

Hope your vape's goin' strong.

Good luck.

Got some KGD coming to me. Should arrive tomorrow. Also more xc 116. Between those to and the reos I'm getting this weekend, I'm going to have some fun ahead.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Got some KGD coming to me. Should arrive tomorrow. Also more xc 116. Between those to and the reos I'm getting this weekend, I'm going to have some fun ahead.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Yes, you are…yes you are!

 

[pjmarkert]

I would think that the organics would have more impurities to give an off taste, I believe that plain old cotton balls are bleached with hydrogen peroxide which oxidizes away impurities. When peroxide breaks down, you get only oxygen and water. I have seen pictures of juice with silica fragments in it and drip tips with silica shards all over the inside, not for me, I did enough damage to my lungs smoking for 35 years. From my point of view, using silica would be just like using asbestos for wicks, I am not taking the chance.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I would think that the organics would have more impurities to give an off taste, I believe that plain old cotton balls are bleached with hydrogen peroxide which oxidizes away impurities. When peroxide breaks down, you get only oxygen and water. I have seen pictures of juice with silica fragments in it and drip tips with silica shards all over the inside, not for me, I did enough damage to my lungs smoking for 35 years. From my point of view, using silica would be just like using asbestos for wicks, I am not taking the chance.

All cotton is pretty dominant to my taste. JC seems to be just slightly more neutral after break in and faster getting there. I agree on the H2O2 but have settled into custom until recently as I got used to the density. As synthetics go nothing approximates the performance of Nextel in every category. And it's durability is exceptional. I've been testing all these materials nine months now with a view of promoting rebuilding by documenting simple effective solutions. But we all have different needs and tastes. It's great if folks will try the options. I try to simplify the electronics to make that possible PJ. It's been a bear when there's so much entertainment out there but rewarding too.

Thanks for the additions. Good luck.



p.s. I put aside silica some time ago except the rare comparison. It tastes like vaping through cardboard.

 

[Trisha Donoflio]

I've had a very muted yuck cotton taste with my Organic cotton from Rite Aid, so I decided to boil it as I watched everyone from afar arguing the boiling point. It did say it was bleached with Hydrogen Peroxide, and while boiling all this white powder ended up around the edge of my pan! I'm waiting for it to dry as we speak.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've had a very muted yuck cotton taste with my Organic cotton from Rite Aid, so I decided to boil it as I watched everyone from afar arguing the boiling point. It did say it was bleached with Hydrogen Peroxide, and while boiling all this white powder ended up around the edge of my pan! I'm waiting for it to dry as we speak.

Good point, bleaching whether cotton, rayon or rayon depending upon the process can produce a plethora of byproducts at the very least not beneficial to us. And it's not always clear what process for extrusion or processing of those fibers and the related chemistry. Organic doesn't always mean organic either. Due diligence is clearly indicated.

There's been a lot of discussion on these topics of late. To name a couple...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/560391-japanese-organic-cotton-pads.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html[/B

(Keywords: KGD, Muji, Shiseido)

I'm seeing great results with KGD so far approaching my favorite synthetic Nextel which I use almost as much for its durability and neutral flavor.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Have you tested Grahams Cellucotton 100% pure rayon yet. Been reading some great reviews on a thread that's just exploding right now.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Have you tested Grahams Cellucotton 100% pure rayon yet. Been reading some great reviews on a thread that's just exploding right now.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

I've yet to see what chemical process is used to extrude it. So I really can't speak to its purity. What I do know about this cellulose (rayon) in general is I kinda like to wear it. Especially more naturally extracted fiber linens. Can things leak from fabrics, from things like dye's or their residuals. You betcha.

I do a lot of testing, more than most would do I think on this particular subject, but I hesitate to be the volunteer lab rat.

I'm reluctant to suggest things I'm not ready to undertake for myself. Not sayin' you are. Glad you asked. Can tell ya, it's not on my test tank yet.

I kind of liked what happened on super_X's mature microcoil thread...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html. He introduced KGD. I'm sure he did his due diligence. A bunch of folks jumped in to investigate, review it, research alternatives…and their production. Gotta admire that. That's community. What I love about ECF.

Just sayin' brook. Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

I've yet to see what chemical process is used to extrude it. So I really can't speak to its purity. What I do know about this cellulose (rayon) in general is I kinda like to wear it. Especially more naturally extracted fiber linens. Can things leak from fabrics, from things like dye's or their residuals. You betcha.

I do a lot of testing, more than most would do I think on this particular subject, but I hesitate to be the volunteer lab rat.

I'm reluctant to suggest things I'm not ready to undertake for myself. Not sayin' you are. Glad you asked. Can tell ya, it's not on my test tank yet.

I kind of liked what happened on super_X's mature microcoil thread...http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/416271-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html. He introduced KGD. I'm sure he did his due diligence. A bunch of folks jumped in to investigate, review it, research alternatives…and their production. Gotta admire that. That's community. What I love about ECF.

Just sayin' brook. Good luck.

Super X also did a great video on Cellucotton rayon. in a couple threads.

Cellucoton Rayon wicks (small thread)

Rayon wicking (long thread with more info)

Just wanted to find out opinions. I'm going to swing by my friendly neighborhood Sally's to get a box of the stuff (500' so I can send you some if you'd like to test it out)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Super X also did a great video on Cellucotton rayon. in a couple threads.

Cellucoton Rayon wicks (small thread)

Rayon wicking (long thread with more info)

Just wanted to find out opinions. I'm going to swing by my friendly neighborhood Sally's to get a box of the stuff (500' so I can send you some if you'd like to test it out)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Me personally, I would be cautious about any man made fiber. I've been studying Nextel for almost a year. I began with the scientific research done on the material going back a decade before its introduction in vaping. I am reasonably assured by the evidence that kilning as recommended and precisely articulated by 3M eradicates virtually any vestiges of residuals of any kind (vaporization) within the media. Furthermore, Nextel has an extraordinarily high heat resistance so that it's potential to add to vaporization components is practically nill (unless abused). So to my perspective the question begs to be asked…is an alternative adding anything to this picture? Well for one what is rayon's contribution to longevity (wick life) or its proclivity to get singed or gunked up in vaporization. In other words, what does it bring to the table?

I use a lot of cotton. Many varieties. I'm liking the lower heat sensitivity of the directional fibers in KGD. And it's flow. I don't see that construction in rayon particularly. So I'm skeptical of accounts of its wicking. It's probably comparable to natural uniformly good quality cotton. Relatively directional in grain. Does it compress well to expedite flow? Skeptical there too.

However, it may yield some interesting taste benefits. Certainly many are saying. So no doubt I will test at some point.

Brook I'd be interested only in the lyocell rayon / Tencel material, only if the specific producer clearly defined the chemical process utilized excluded toxic chemistry (such as to suppress fuzzing). In a similar way that 3M adds sizing to its insulation which subsequently must be removed by kilning. So any secondary process must be considered. And how do we do that consistently? Given rayon's characteristics if even benign processes implied some residual what would the removal or extraction of such entail? Boiling? Torching? Not likely. Just remember LBB applies, methinks.

It's bad enough that Nextel is single source. And yes if this thing takes off we do need alternatives as a community. So it's a serious topic of interest to me. Let the research continue. We all need due diligence as individuals. We also need such alternatives. If you'd be so kind, I'd appreciate a sample. PM me for particulars. And thanks. I'm looking this morning and can't find stock. Two separate supplies of KGD enroute.

Good luck brook, think Tencel!



p.s. This is starting to resemble last Spring. Maybe a good thing!

 

[brookj1986]

Me personally, I would be cautious about any man made fiber. I've been studying Nextel for almost a year. I began with the scientific research done on the material going back a decade before its introduction in vaping. I am reasonably assured by the evidence that kilning as recommended and precisely articulated by 3M eradicates virtually any vestiges of residuals of any kind (vaporization) within the media. Furthermore, Nextel has an extraordinarily high heat resistance so that it's potential to add to vaporization components is practically nill (unless abused). So to my perspective the question begs to be asked…is an alternative adding anything to this picture? Well for one what is rayon's contribution to longevity (wick life) or its proclivity to get singed or gunked up in vaporization. In other words, what does it bring to the table?

I use a lot of cotton. Many varieties. I'm liking the lower heat sensitivity of the directional fibers in KGD. And it's flow. I don't see that construction in rayon particularly. So I'm skeptical of accounts of its wicking. It's probably comparable to natural uniformly good quality cotton. Relatively directional in grain. Does it compress well to expedite flow? Skeptical there too.

However, it may yield some interesting taste benefits. Certainly many are saying. So no doubt I will test at some point.

Brook I'd be interested only in the lyocell rayon / Tencel material, only if the specific producer clearly defined the chemical process utilized excluded toxic chemistry (such as to suppress fuzzing). In a similar way that 3M adds sizing to its insulation which subsequently must be removed by kilning. So any secondary process must be considered. And how do we do that consistently? Given rayon's characteristics if even benign processes implied some residual what would the removal or extraction of such entail? Boiling? Torching? Not likely. Just remember LBB applies, methinks.

It's bad enough that Nextel is single source. And yes if this thing takes off we do need alternatives as a community. So it's a serious topic of interest to me. Let the research continue. We all need due diligence as individuals. We also need such alternatives. If you'd be so kind, I'd appreciate a sample. PM me for particulars. And thanks. I'm looking this morning and can't find stock. Two separate supplies of KGD enroute.

Good luck brook, think Tencel!



p.s. This is starting to resemble last Spring. Maybe a good thing!

One of those threads started talking about tencel and transformed into a CCr thread since as an overall better media. Time will tell. JeremyR and others have spent countless hours researching. The structure is actually HIGHLY directional in nature. Watch Super X's video and he'll show it off. He seems to have adopted it over the KGD. You'll be able to test out next week.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I said…

p.s. This is starting to resemble last Spring. Maybe a good thing!

One of those threads started talking about tencel and transformed into a CCr thread since as an overall better media. Time will tell. JeremyR and others have spent countless hours researching. The structure is actually HIGHLY directional in nature. Watch Super X's video and he'll show it off. He seems to have adopted it over the KGD. You'll be able to test out next week.

And I can't say whether your conclusion is correct for sure about anyone's preferences.

But as of this morning money certainly talks in vaping. From results of my informal internet survey and retailer phone calls, it does appear that there has been a veritable run on KGD which has left the shelves barren and store owners scratching their heads all over the country. I know, I asked!

I don't think this has quite happened yet with lyocell, or necessarily will, but it has demonstrably happened with KGD.

It's not that there hasn't been a plethora of options for cotton. Some with exceptional flow and saturation qualities. But there hasn't been a singular focused interest in a particular product anywhere on the net except that which emanates from right here, on a few significant threads (thanks again super_X_drifter).

So what's to be gleaned from this? That we finally have a satisfactory flavor/performance/safety solution? One palatable to most of us maybe? I don't think so particularly.

What it does show in my estimation is that we as vapers and rebuilders, those of us taking charge of our vaping experience, have become an influential economic force. Perhaps a weak one at this point but a perceptible and significant economy. And that economy is only two degrees removed from these pages, at most and everywhere in between. That significance should not be lost on those watching anymore. Not the least of which is an often arrogant and indifferent media.

So smarten up out there. The vaping lifestyle is game on.

Good luck all. Enjoy the vape.

 

[MJ12]

... do you use pliers? ...

After the chimney has been pulled off a time or two, it's gets easier... you won't need any tools, except your fingers. Just wiggle it back and forth and it'll pop right off.

 

[MacTechVpr]

One of those threads started talking about tencel and transformed into a CCr thread since as an overall better media. Time will tell. JeremyR and others have spent countless hours researching. The structure is actually HIGHLY directional in nature. Watch Super X's video and he'll show it off. He seems to have adopted it over the KGD. You'll be able to test out next week.

Yes, I have started and thanks! Did three densities on a Nimbus/Origin/.75Ω/1.98Ø and initial impression is very light airy and volume producer. Not flavor dense though vs the nearest closest build a .5Ω twin parallel. This was a six wind 32g twisted which is very light, a 4-hole on a nimbus but quite a cloud producer and dense considering how much air. But my tension wound twisted pair is very efficient (extremely cool) as well resulting in some flavorful results for this wind. So it was a bit of a surprise the flavor density…how can I describe this…a piano playing in the background of a flower garden. All the notes were there but softly. Plus side, extremely flavor neutral. Plenty of warning on the dry hits and then taste similarities with cotton were present.

In the small bed of the Nim with both a full pack of wick and very thin loads it vacated very quickly. So that was a surprise too as usually I equate flow and juice dispersion with vapor density and correspondingly flavor density. But somehow they don't all add up to the logical sum in this scenario. So a bit puzzled.

I will no doubt be subjecting this to more expanded tests including matched equipment tests alongside KGD and others so we'll see. As I've stated variously the media deserves quite a bit more of subjective study insofar as its composition and preparation are concerned. I will no doubt remain the inquisitive skeptic as I did with Nextel for quite a long time but truly hope as with KGD that we continue to expand our wick media options.

Thank you very much for including me brook.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Yes, I have started and thanks! Did three densities on a Nimbus/Origin/.75Ω/1.98Ø and initial impression is very light airy and volume producer. Not flavor dense though vs the nearest closest build a .5Ω twin parallel. This was a six wind 32g twisted which is very light, a 4-hole on a nimbus but quite a cloud producer and dense considering how much air. But my tension wound twisted pair is very efficient (extremely cool) as well resulting in some flavorful results for this wind. So it was a bit of a surprise the flavor density…how can I describe this…a piano playing in the background of a flower garden. All the notes were there but softly. Plus side, extremely flavor neutral. Plenty of warning on the dry hits and then taste similarities with cotton were present.

In the small bed of the Nim with both a full pack of wick and very thin loads it vacated very quickly. So that was a surprise too as usually I equate flow and juice dispersion with vapor density and correspondingly flavor density. But somehow they don't all add up to the logical sum in this scenario. So a bit puzzled.

I will no doubt be subjecting this to more expanded tests including matched equipment tests alongside KGD and others so we'll see. As I've stated variously the media deserves quite a bit more of subjective study insofar as its composition and preparation are concerned. I will no doubt remain the inquisitive skeptic as I did with Nextel for quite a long time but truly hope as with KGD that we continue to expand our wick media options.

Thank you very much for including me brook.

Good luck.

Happy to hear your thoughts. Though I am surprised by the lack of full flavor... obviously, it varies for everyone, but I have found the flavor to explode. I also have some medical grade rayon balls coming my way. I've heard they are even cleaner and more taste neutral than Sally's iteration of rayon wicking material.

I'll send some your way as well. One is from Delasco (200 count) and another from Med Supplier/TIDI (2000 count)

2200 + 500' = lifetime supply.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Happy to hear your thoughts. Though I am surprised by the lack of full flavor... obviously, it varies for everyone, but I have found the flavor to explode. I also have some medical grade rayon balls coming my way. I've heard they are even cleaner and more taste neutral than Sally's iteration of rayon wicking material.

I'll send some your way as well. One is from Delasco (200 count) and another from Med Supplier/TIDI (2000 count)

2200 + 500' = lifetime supply.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

On the flavor, don't be so shocked. It's an airier output, more volume. I take that to mean that it's vaporizing faster than flow. This could tend to favor certain flavors. I had two of my favs in play. Both extremely fruity and naturally sweet (no chem sweeteners). One, double flavor drops. Guess what…they weren't much either. However, certain other natural flavors did pop. Flavor neutral…well, yes in the sense of not interjecting its own footprint. That general observation I've seen time and again is spot on. Flavor enhancement, in practically terms, I think definitively not possible. My opinion at his very early stage but I think it'll be borne out by consensus in general terms. However, an important one, it could be the superlative wick for certain flavors. And not a matter of personal selections but specifically the delivery physics might favor certain juice qualities. I won't be getting to the tobacco reserve any time soon but that could prove to be interesting. Denser synthetics like Eko and Nextel certainly were more flavor neutral than silica but subdued the "pop" as you say that silica definitely exhibit with tobacco to my taste. Like I said, some potential there. And that is precisely my next step if I can get to it this evening my premier tobacco dripper, the original veteran Trident v1 on an M16. That workhorse is the ideal tobacco delivery system along with the Raiju. And it's up for realignment at the gate tonite.



Thank you very much brook as I said. I will def put this stuff through its paces.

Good luck