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MacTechVpr

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Mac.....your posts exude the passion that all of us have inside us but are still too new to the (art) of vaping to feel comfortable. I am grateful for you sharing your experience here with all your post full of facts and helping me move forward every day. I was rebuilding my Kanger coils on my mini's at week 4 into the vaping scene.....I just wished I found your posts sooner but am glad I keep looking for help here on EFC.

Thanks and happy Thanksgiving to all the veterans of vaping.

I remember how incredibly amazed I was when I first learned to tie a a fisherman's clinch knot as a kid. How utterly frustrating it had been to lose so many lines, and lures…and fish! Before I made that transcendental discovery. That moment of awe. Well that's what we go through here and as I felt for quite some time. Like fire and understanding what you need to make it. There are some basics, maybe I don't have them all myself but I'm trying to pass along what I can. That's all.

I'd like to see more of us get there faster. We need to. As much reward, relief (from addiction) and enjoyment we might derive we might soon have to be without it if adoption doesn't keep apace with efforts to stop this industry and our independent activity. Something to think about this Thanksgiving. We are blessed at this moment of time and technology.

It's a matter of power for those in opposition, of survival for us. I am more than an exuberant newb. I am motivated.

Thanks for your acknowledgement moody. May you fish to your dying day. Best of luck to all of you, and especially those of you who contribute.

Happy Thanksgiving all.

:)
 

bcollier9253

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Hey all.... I have seen some new positive post groments for the Protank coils. They look like more of a silicone than rubber,so I did some browsing on the web and found some guys using these from KidneyPuncher. You may or may not already know this but if not here is the link.AGA Series Positive Post Insulators - 10 pack - Kidney Puncher
 

MacTechVpr

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Hey all.... I have seen some new positive post groments for the Protank coils. They look like more of a silicone than rubber,so I did some browsing on the web and found some guys using these from KidneyPuncher. You may or may not already know this but if not here is the link.AGA Series Positive Post Insulators - 10 pack - Kidney Puncher

Good morning b. I made some mention of this on the Protank spare parts thread...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...otank-2-replacement-parts-3.html#post10966412

It's possible to do but the silicone is thicker, too flexible and bulges easily into the airstream as I explain with further links here...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tinky-grommet-replacement-5.html#post11336365

Even further along in the latter thread I provide a link to replacement grommets from Lightning Vapes. You might take a look that that.

Good luck!

:)
 

fogging_katrider

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248057d1378229099-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do-20130903_112517.jpg


After much frustration over trying to wrap torch and pinch and align nice tight coils vs just doing a standard coil like the one described (and pictured) in the first post of this thread, I just have to wonder why the standard coil (with the spaces between each winding for the cotton to swell into giving the best wick to wire contact btw) seems to provide the absolute best flavor out of all my attempts ?

Sometimes ime, the easiest way turns out to be the most "flavorful" productive, quick, simple and consistant results.

Can anyone please explain just exactly why a microcoil is supposed to work better than the old tried and true standard design "gapped" coil...especially when wicked with cotton ?

tia,
Jon
 
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MacTechVpr

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http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html
Can anyone please explain just exactly why a microcoil is supposed to work better than the old tried and true standard design "gapped" coil...especially when wicked with cotton ?

Jon, I hate to answer a question with a question but…if your assemblies are that consistent why are you curious?

A simple search of just this forum will turn up some excellent responses involving improved vaporization and electrical efficiencies affecting flavor here…

Post #2: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ils-increase-vapor-flavor-th.html#post9498711

Not to detract from your conclusions at all but you must have developed a skill of repetition that most of us elude. A deftness and dexterity of digits which is beyond me, a lifetime guitarist. Not doubting you, commending you. Many I correspond with here and abroad, new and experienced vapers, confirm the difficulties of matching the density of cotton to any type of wicking system. Particularly a wind so irregular as one done by hand. You have indeed accomplished a laudable and enviable ideal on two fronts – winding and wicking!

Consequently, running into many issues myself resulting from lack of uniformity, i.e. hot legs, bad end turns, intermittent shorting on assemblies, improper coil location bad termination on isolators and resulting airflow issues, virtually impossible threading with silica, etc. Finding it difficult to find more complete answers to my questions, I decided to contribute as well to refer newcomers and those interested to a couple of threads that seemed to better consolidate many of the scattered solutions to these problems featured on ECF at this thread and…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

I think you would agree this is helpful to those struggling trying to succeed in their efforts to leave analogs.

As for you, bravo! Enjoy and good luck!

:)
 
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MacTechVpr

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"I also prefer the middle which is a bit size that's somewhat difficult to find in a screwdriver. Try 1.8mm as approximate." What do you mean by this statement? Please excuse me for my lack of knowledge

Hey, I see you're really getting into the DiY thing b. Congratz. I guess you've solved most of your building issues. I hope that's so and glad to hear it if it is.

Good luck!

:)
 

JohnQPublic

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I have a question.
With all the people building their own coils to improve the flavor out of their Protanks.....
With the million and one vaping accessories out there........

WHY isn't some company, or Kanger themselves, mass producing coils with different wick material???



Posted the guy who wants better flavor than the stock Kanger coils provide but is way too lazy to build his own coils.
 

MacTechVpr

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I have a question.
With all the people building their own coils to improve the flavor out of their Protanks.....
With the million and one vaping accessories out there........

WHY isn't some company, or Kanger themselves, mass producing coils with different wick material???

Posted the guy who wants better flavor than the stock Kanger coils provide but is way too lazy to build his own coils.


It is cheap.

(And soon, hidden.)

Good luck!

:)
 

fogging_katrider

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Not to detract from your conclusions at all but you must have developed a skill of repetition that most of us elude. A deftness and dexterity of digits which is beyond me, a lifetime guitarist. Not doubting you, commending you. Many I correspond with here and abroad, new and experienced vapers, confirm the difficulties of matching the density of cotton to any type of wicking system. Particularly a wind so irregular as one done by hand. You have indeed accomplished a laudable and enviable ideal on two fronts – winding and wicking!

Mac,
I appreciate extremely your many invaluable skills and teachings on the arts of microcoil winding. I have followed your posts and learned a wealth of great information and will continue doing so with great interest. They're all great reads imho. But I also see without any doubt that you're pretty darn good at sarcasm too. Which if read between the lines is pure genius so please don't take that the wrong way. You're an asset to this community and I am not.

I never said anything about winding by hand around the wicking. I'm talking about doing it exactly as described in the first post of this thread. A simple standard coil, built on a 1/16" mandrel with a wisp of cotton pulled through after assembly. The only difference I have from the op is that I prewet the cotton after insertion and let it swell a bit before snipping off the tails. With the standard coil the cotton fit is much less critical imho since there is space for the inconsistancies between coils and thus much less chance for the wick to be choked off by being too compacted. No need to "fret" about all the wick fit and hot leg problems associated micros here where the simple standard coil w/cotton (to me anyway ymmv) handles the kanger task admirably compared to the stock silica & flavor wick trash. Also no flooding or gurgling since going this route btw

Then again reading between the lines your sarcastic retort instead of answering my original question, which I'll reword for you below, may have already answered the question by pointing out how difficult it truely is to build (repeatedly and consistantly) a microcoil that performs well in these little heads.

Why does this simple to make standard coil wicked with cotton shown in post one produce such great flavor ?

Now I think I might have answered the above question too, and sorry you felt I was attacking your microcoil skills at all. Perhaps the better question here should be is microcoil building on a kanger really worth all the troubles for the slight improvement it may offer over a cotton wicked coil built like the op showed us ?

Simplicity has merits too...vape on
 

MacTechVpr

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Simplicity has merits too...vape on

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. —.Albert Einstein.

One of my favorite quotes of all time. And exactly your point. I am certainly no genius. Perhaps you are. And yes maybe a bit of the cynical in my answer but not because I am important. The people who are trying to get through this trial by fire are. So if it sounded at all like sarcasm it was founded in an emphasis of concern for them. I don't need to be doing this. I'm retired and my life is full of other challenges. After a life in tech, industry and international logistics…I need the rest foggy. Really! But bottom line, let's you and I both put the best and simplest solutions out there that we can and let those trying to get answers put them to the test. Let them use as much as they require and can simply attain to get where they feel they want to be. That's genius.

Then…we can show 'em how to really fog things up.

Good luck!

:D
 

metalhed73

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Mac,
I appreciate extremely your many invaluable skills and teachings on the arts of microcoil winding. I have followed your posts and learned a wealth of great information and will continue doing so with great interest. They're all great reads imho. But I also see without any doubt that you're pretty darn good at sarcasm too. Which if read between the lines is pure genius so please don't take that the wrong way. You're an asset to this community and I am not.

I never said anything about winding by hand around the wicking. I'm talking about doing it exactly as described in the first post of this thread. A simple standard coil, built on a 1/16" mandrel with a wisp of cotton pulled through after assembly. The only difference I have from the op is that I prewet the cotton after insertion and let it swell a bit before snipping off the tails. With the standard coil the cotton fit is much less critical imho since there is space for the inconsistancies between coils and thus much less chance for the wick to be choked off by being too compacted. No need to "fret" about all the wick fit and hot leg problems associated micros here where the simple standard coil w/cotton (to me anyway ymmv) handles the kanger task admirably compared to the stock silica & flavor wick trash. Also no flooding or gurgling since going this route btw

Then again reading between the lines your sarcastic retort instead of answering my original question, which I'll reword for you below, may have already answered the question by pointing out how difficult it truely is to build (repeatedly and consistantly) a microcoil that performs well in these little heads.

Why does this simple to make standard coil wicked with cotton shown in post one produce such great flavor ?

Now I think I might have answered the above question too, and sorry you felt I was attacking your microcoil skills at all. Perhaps the better question here should be is microcoil building on a kanger really worth all the troubles for the slight improvement it may offer over a cotton wicked coil built like the op showed us ?

Simplicity has merits too...vape on

With life keeping me busy I have not had a chance to weigh back in on a thread that has clearly been needed. First and foremost thank you to all that have been keeping the knowledge flowing, I learned from reading and trial and error to get this technique down. All the activity on this post has shown me that there are plenty more like me looking for a place to start and some good info to work off of. Thank you all for the kind word.

With regards to microcoils:

As with most things in vaping it is a dichotomy of flavor vs vapor production. My standard spaced coils do provider amazing flavor but do not produce as much vapor as my microcoils. I have found (in protanks at least) that a microcoil build provides a more satisfying expierence overall, FOR ME, despite the fact that it does indeed appear to slightly mute the flavor. I believe that this is mostly due to a finite amount of airflow inherent in the protanks. I keep some standard build heads around for flavors that do not play well with the added heat of a (lower ohm mind you) microcoil.

That being said you have found what works great for you, and that is really what this thread is about. If this has helped keep you off of the analogs then I am truly happy that you found it and it worked for you.

Again thank you all for the input, it is what I love about this community.
 

MacTechVpr

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With life keeping me busy I have not had a chance to weigh back in on a thread that has clearly been needed. First and foremost thank you to all that have been keeping the knowledge flowing, I learned from reading and trial and error to get this technique down. All the activity on this post has shown me that there are plenty more like me looking for a place to start and some good info to work off of. Thank you all for the kind word.

Again thank you all for the input, it is what I love about this community.

I finally got a few minutes today to acknowledge this great thread. It may not have seemed like much at the time Metal but it consolidated a crucial element needed to help stop Protank problems and get the best vape. Specifically, building to a metric.

I want to acknowledge another great thread which had a good life but clearly superseded by yours. And that's FACE MEAT's great build thread…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/396220-kanger-protank-rebuild.html

These two thread's provided in one centralized place the essential mechanics of a build, a concise explanation of the necessary physical relationship of the elements of a PT head. And while FACEMEAT elegantly demonstrated the important essentials of localization, to yield a consistent result, you introduced the ingredient of building to a standard coil model. You qualify how much cotton was required; and, you define the coil to do it. You don't start with cotton, or any wick and build around it, you match the wick and coil to each other. That was rather ingenious of you to illustrate that process.

And while much of this had been dissected to death before and since, you took the initiative to demonstrate it here on ECF proceduraly with clarity…and pictures! How cleverly devious of you Metal. To sneak some schoolin' in on us like that.

My applause and thanks.

Good luck!

:)
 
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fogging_katrider

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Yes great thread.
I looked at that other thread, great sense of humor too...
Rebuilding was way easier and funner than I thought it'd be. Plus, I get to use pliers and wire cutters so my wife thinks I'm tough and masculine.

Had a good laugh there, then I skipped to page fifty something to see they're still wrapping wire around silica and pulling it into the base..eeesh :facepalm:

I particularly love the kanger vertical microcoil thread (argh cant find it) and the other kanger microcoil thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

But this one holy crap triple micros in that little base...wow...just wow ! http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/atomizer-mods/490211-dual-micro-coils-protank-2-a.html
 

VapoJoe86

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I just wanted to chime in here and say that I've been rebuilding protank coils for a long time now (about 7 months) and little did I know I was making a huge mistake by using silica. I followed rip trippers youtube video (located here) and now I can see what he was so excited about; cotton wicks make a HUGE difference! I used organic cotton balls that I purchased from Walgreens. I boiled about 20-25 of them in purified water twice for 15 minutes two times (changing the water in between of course) but those are still drying and me being as impatient as I am went ahead with one of the cotton balls straight from the bag. I am not disappointed at all; I can literally double my wattage output and not get even a hint of burnt flavor or any undesirable flavors at all! I am blown away right now; the taste, vapor production, everything about about it is on a whole new level. All I have to say is WOW, I wish I would've seen the light much sooner. I'll try it with the boiled cotton balls next (once they dry out) to see if there is a difference. In the mean time, this is truly amazing.
 

fogging_katrider

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Hi vapojoe86,
You can speed up that drying process. Just them blot out some pressing them between a pile of clean paper towels, then lay them out on a clean glass lasagna dish or other glass or ceramic oven safe type dish. Preheat the clean oven to 250f and bake the dish. You might turn over and tumble the batch a couple times while baking to speed the process, but they should all get bone dry in a matter of minutes.

ps... tip...when i boil cotton balls I first unroll the balls so its a flat portion of cotton (many of yours probably unrolled by themself in the boiling anyway) makes it easier to pull off nice little lengthwise portions for usage. I store my cooked cotton in a large ziplock bag so they'll stay nice and clean.
 
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Bella Chic

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An amazing thread. I just started vaping again and I'm having to learn about all the new stuff. I really love the Mini Protank 2's and I am going to have to get me some 32g Kanthal and organic cotton balls and give this a go. I'm fixing to google search where I can get some 32g Kanthal, as I, sure I can just go to a store an get it, darn the luck, lol. Thank you so much for this tutorial. I will report back when I get materials and have tried my hand at this.
 

MacTechVpr

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An amazing thread. I just started vaping again and I'm having to learn about all the new stuff. I really love the Mini Protank 2's and I am going to have to get me some 32g Kanthal and organic cotton balls and give this a go. I'm fixing to google search where I can get some 32g Kanthal, as I, sure I can just go to a store an get it, darn the luck, lol. Thank you so much for this tutorial. I will report back when I get materials and have tried my hand at this.

Congratulations, you're about to embark on a very pleasurable odyssey. Once you do, the adventure continues at….

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

Most economical and ironically effective means is to spool wire directly to a simple screwdriver for incredible results out of the gate. This procedure just works. Invest in at least a small 25 ft. spool of quality (published spec) Kanthal, 30 AWG from TEMCO for the Protank/Mini. I use a forceps to provide tension in this post but you can do the same thing feeding from a spool which I describe here…

Hold the spool in one hand, hold the screwdriver bit with the other as you wind, tension by pressing lightly against the screwdriver shank with thumb and or index finger. Can't get any simpler really. And very natural to release the rotation of the spool with the lower three fingers of the hand. A very natural motion. Not requiring a lot of dexterity. Just a steady modicum of tension. And above is how they come out. One after the other. Ready for installation and compression burn in, wicking and vape.

You literally will have a usable coil to drop into a Kanger head in minutes. That ahaa moment will definitely hit ya.

Good luck!

:)
 

Bella Chic

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Congratulations, you're about to embark on a very pleasurable odyssey. Once you do, the adventure continues at….

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html

Most economical and ironically effective means is to spool wire directly to a simple screwdriver for incredible results out of the gate. This procedure just works. Invest in at least a small 25 ft. spool of quality (published spec) Kanthal, 30 AWG from TEMCO for the Protank/Mini. I use a forceps to provide tension in this post but you can do the same thing feeding from a spool which I describe here…



You literally will have a usable coil to drop into a Kanger head in minutes. That ahaa moment will definitely hit ya.

Good luck!

:)

Thank you so very much. Might have to hold off on ordering Kanthal till after Christmas. I will be heading out of town early Saturday morning and I don't want to miss a package since I will be gone for almost 2 weeks. I am really excited about trying this out though.
 
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