Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[MacTechVpr]

Figured out a good way to secure the wire. Twisted 32 gauge tmc. Not yet installed.

The first one I made was 1.5 ohms but I'm going to test it out.

It's a good start... Now I just got to figure out why my Tapatalk notifications stopped all of the sudden.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk. Excuse typos and stupid autocorrect errors.

Just revisiting these outstanding pic's of yours brook of a great twisted tension wind. Wish more folks would visit this thread to see it. The potential for moving on to more advanced builds once you have the basics down. Also curious how much cooler it felt and if you'd tried it yet with either KGD or CC. With RxW must be very good.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Just revisiting these outstanding pic's of yours brook of a great twisted tension wind. Wish more folks would visit this thread to see it. The potential for moving on to more advanced builds once you have the basics down. Also curious how much cooler it felt and if you'd tried it yet with either KGD or CC. With RxW must be very good.

Good luck.

Ah yes, my first twisted tension wind. Most of those have been tossed. The wire snapped before I got it REALLLLLLLY twisted. I've since gotten much better at avoiding that as well as getting proper tensioned coils. They occasionally need a slight squeeze on my rdas when pulsing, but rarely needed in my kpt for any tmc.

I found, in the kpt, twisted were a bust for my preferences. I often needed to up the power a bit. It has, however, translated extremely well to rdas. The vape is quite cool and certain flavors REALLY pop versus a standard tmc.

I was actually using a twisted 29 gauge tensioned parallel coil in my RM2. Despite the 0.28 ohm reading, it was much cooler than 28 gauge parallel coils at the same resistance. I'm planning more experiments of twisted and other coils. But for me, nothing is better in a pt than a 1.8-2.0 ohm, 29 gauge TMC. It simply doesn't get better for my preferences.

Next I want to try some ribbon wire.

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[MacTechVpr]

Ah yes, my first twisted tension wind. Most of those have been tossed. The wire snapped before I got it REALLLLLLLY twisted. I've since gotten much better at avoiding that as well as getting proper tensioned coils. They occasionally need a slight squeeze on my rdas when pulsing, but rarely needed in my kpt for any tmc.

I found, in the kpt, twisted were a bust for my preferences. I often needed to up the power a bit. It has, however, translated extremely well to rdas. The vape is quite cool and certain flavors REALLY pop versus a standard tmc.

I was actually using a twisted 29 gauge tensioned parallel coil in my RM2. Despite the 0.28 ohm reading, it was much cooler than 28 gauge parallel coils at the same resistance. I'm planning more experiments of twisted and other coils. But for me, nothing is better in a pt than a 1.8-2.0 ohm, 29 gauge TMC. It simply doesn't get better for my preferences.

Next I want to try some ribbon wire.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

I see that our preference profiles have fallen in pretty close together. The tensioned t.m.c.'s are dramatically cooler and can be run at pretty low resistance with richer sweeter tobacco's for a really nice effect. I have a fav Jack D. that run's spectacularly on both straight and t/p sub-Ω above .5, depends on the dripper. Really warm in the Raiju and similar, cooler on the Nimbus and multitude of Helios I have on just above everything. I find .3 as the limit to any practical flavor production. I vape 'em all the time as I'm offered by pro builders as they complain they no longer can vape anything cooler. Not my cup of tea. I'm so glad I can still enjoy most temperature targets although I love that half-Ω space.

It's fascinating that you found that central sweet zone for the KPT which is just a gold mine for most juices and getting there is so easy with a t.m.c. Also, the obvious fact for those reading that one can build those techniques right here on this thread and the linked Protank Microcoil saga. They work as well for the Kangers as the more sophisticated and attractive options that are out there.

I hope they continue coming this way brook so they can get to the outstanding results you were able to achieve.

Two pit stops today at B&M's dropping off some CC to their in-house builders for impressions. Built out a Hades/Tobh 26650 parallels with it and it was pretty impressive on the vapor production. His wind selection was not to either of our liking (vendor build) at under .2Ω so we'll have to see on flavor. As with too many I run into I have to labor to finish fusing the coil for breaks to get them at least firing somewhat even and smartly. And also shoring up his contact points end-to-end to avoid voltage drop dry hits (misadjusted dirty contacts, threading, etc.). Not pleasurable on this kind of rig. He was pretty happy with the fixes and the wick I must say.

Hopefully (one of my first workshop students) he'll return to trying to rebuild Protanks so he can get to such winds on his own.

Thanks for the great winds brook. Good luck.

 

[clnire]

Reading this thread and the other, watching many videos and trashing a lot of coils for learning, you all have helped me learn how to consistently build 2.0-2.4 micros on my EVOD/protanks and clones. I have several RDAs I work with too. Funny though, I was installing magnets in my neme clone and couldn't get it to fire. Suddenly the lightbulb went off - I was charging the battery! Pulled out a fresh battery and worked like a charm.

Now that is embarrassing to admit, especially having been a basic computer tech for 20+ years (no electronics training, just basically part swapping) you would think I would remember the first step in troubleshooting - is it plugged in/turned on? The stories I could tell..

Thank you for all the help. I just keep reading and practicing.

pardon the typos, on my phone

 

[MacTechVpr]

One of those threads started talking about tencel and transformed into a CCr thread...You'll be able to test out next week.

Well I have the past three days trying out several builds in a variety of densities and wicking styles. Nimbus/Origin, a light combination for an 18650 power plant. Things normally produces a lot of vapor with a .76Ω t.m.c. It's performing adequately with my favorite, a Kentucky bourbon interpretation called Stratagem (with a tweak). I've written quite a bit about the chemical kinetics I encountered and attributes of the fiber, the possible impacts upon subjective taste. So far not a bad wick overall but could be exceptional under certain circumstances.

A day late but finally getting to my fav tobacco, a Johnson Creek Tenn Cured VG with some honey flue variants of my own concoction. Everybody asks where to get it. Only one place in the world and it ain't sellin'. So it's kind of special to my heart. And the good news is it's running pretty well on its home base…the authentic Trident/M16 where it normally lives at present gussied up with 26AWG 8/7, 3/32” 2.38mm i.d., t.m.c. = .858Ω. For the wick I used half of a 1-1/4" length not compressed at all save for a minute tip to allow a light stretched pull through. Ends cut to the edge of the well and a tuft of this used to create a half-donut on the other half of the well. This I use routinely to help retain and channel juice back into the main well. The ends delicately pulled down and tucked in softly just between the posts to meet the preceding. Coil remains totally exposed.

This single coil config at 3/32" seem to like CC. Not too dense, but denser than most are building. Very good balance of flow and wick evacuation with good evaporation. Flavor about as good as I've seen in this first hour. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. The expectation I have is that given its good retention factors if the flavor holds up that it will run cleaner as some have reported. Now despite the speculation that JCTC may have some NET or NET-like molecules, I don't think they're natural, large or complex insolubles. If my theory is true it should probably hold up quite well compared to the natural flavorings that ran into problems on the Nim. We shall see brook.

A bit bigger wind than we're used to on a Protank, heh?

Good luck.

 

[PaulBHC]

I've been trying the CC in a few devices with different liquids. My DIY NET is not well filtered and the CC seems to act like a final filter, clogging in a few mls. Debating on using a simple RDA with NET.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've been trying the CC in a few devices with different liquids. My DIY NET is not well filtered and the CC seems to act like a final filter, clogging in a few mls. Debating on using a simple RDA with NET.

Although I hate to think it (blasphemy) NET's and vaporizers seems to be almost like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole paul. Anything with natural anything especially tobacco is a problem for most wicks. And if you're flavor sensitive like me just tastes marvelous after a day or so. /sarc on

It must be that unicorn everybody keeps talkin' bout I'm lookin for.

Anyways, about the most neutral and at least capable of clearing such gunk with the right maintenance technique I believe happens to be Nextel. Since I'm a big tobacco fan I naturally favor it for this reason. I haven't forgotten a great many of us continue to enjoy its delicacies.

The above Trident/M16 combo btw has given me about the best results I've achieved overall with all wicks. But for the sheer initial bang KGD has high marks in it.

Ah, if only to sustain it. <shrug>

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Although I hate to think it (blasphemy) NET's and vaporizers seems to be almost like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole paul. Anything with natural anything especially tobacco is a problem for most wicks. And if you're flavor sensitive like me just tastes marvelous after a day or so. /sarc on

It must be that unicorn everybody keeps talkin' bout I'm lookin for.

Anyways, about the most neutral and at least capable of clearing such gunk with the right maintenance technique I believe happens to be Nextel. Since I'm a big tobacco fan I naturally favor it for this reason. I haven't forgotten a great many of us continue to enjoy its delicacies.

The above Trident/M16 combo btw has given me about the best results I've achieved overall with all wicks. But for the sheer initial bang KGD has high marks in it.

Ah, if only to sustain it. <shrug>

Good luck.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it sustains.

I was pleasantly surprised by this wick in the Taifun gs ( the smaller one that requires pretty much a U of wick to the holes that go into the tank). Xc116 did OK on this, but only OK. Cotton was VERY fickle. It had to be SUPER thin... too thin to hold much juice. CC was wicked relatively normally and it's vaping like a champ.

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[MacTechVpr]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it sustains.

I was pleasantly surprised by this wick in the Taifun gs ( the smaller one that requires pretty much a U of wick to the holes that go into the tank). Xc116 did OK on this, but only OK. Cotton was VERY fickle. It had to be SUPER thin... too thin to hold much juice. CC was wicked relatively normally and it's vaping like a champ.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Looks like you struck gold and found a wick that shines for your flavorings profile. That is, the pigment balance in your juice I'm starting to believe is favored by this wick media. That's a good thing. So far this hour it's working well for me re the above which is a pleasant surprise. And a good one because I haven't found anything that wicks really well in my four Immo's and that's next!

Wish me luck!

 

[brookj1986]

Looks like you struck gold and found a wick that shines for your flavorings profile. That is, the pigment balance in your juice I'm starting to believe is favored by this wick media. That's a good thing. So far this hour it's working well for me re the above which is a pleasant surprise. And a good one because I haven't found anything that wicks really well in my four Immo's and that's next!

Wish me luck!

Good luck Mac! Hope it works for you like it had for me.

The GS gave me my first dry hit. Luckily, it's the least offensive dry hit taste I've ever experienced. Cotton was awful; xc116 not good; silica ouch. Very mild dry hit taste, when you do experience the rare dry hit.

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[PaulBHC]

I tried CC because of Jeremy's thread, not a lot of money, and a Sally's 100 yards from my workplace. I've had good results, not OMG results. My RY4 is better. I have a pile of sizes of silica, a bag of cotton balls and mesh for my gennies that I haven't attempted yet.

I'll get KGD when CVS has it for $5 a pack, lol.

If nothing else, I have 499 feet of NET filter material.

 

[brookj1986]

Agreed, not always OMG, but some aspects have definitely drawn that from me. Flavor is great, but kgd is very close or equal on many levels. Price is the one draw back

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[MacTechVpr]

Good luck Mac! Hope it works for you like it had for me.

The GS gave me my first dry hit. Luckily, it's the least offensive dry hit taste I've ever experienced. Cotton was awful; xc116 not good; silica ouch. Very mild dry hit taste, when you do experience the rare dry hit.

No worries. You know I will. I'm persistent that way.

But heck, no dry hit's worth it. Mess up your vape and taste buds. Unfortunately for moi, I've got 35 mods and sometimes I don't remember my own name. So it comes with the territory. Too many test tanks, not enough mind.



Good luck U2.

p.s. The CC's holding up this eve. If it's fresh in the morning, it's a keeper. That's my general rule. Otherwise, tobacco builds don't last a day. So we'll see.

 

[clnire]

Realized I didn't post another thank you. Cutting the amount of cotton wick I was using about in half fixed all my gurgling problems.

pardon the typos, on my phone

 

[brookj1986]

No worries. You know I will. I'm persistent that way.

But heck, no dry hit's worth it. Mess up your vape and taste buds. Unfortunately for moi, I've got 35 mods and sometimes I don't remember my own name. So it comes with the territory. Too many test tanks, not enough mind.



Good luck U2.

p.s. The CC's holding up this eve. If it's fresh in the morning, it's a keeper. That's my general rule. Otherwise, tobacco builds don't last a day. So we'll see.

Mac, how'd it hold up for you?

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[MacTechVpr]

Mac, how'd it hold up for you?

Well, yesterday turned out to be wick evaluation day as I walked around several wick options and stopped in at one of my favorite haunts in S Fla, the SLV in Fort Lauderdale. Among these was CC as I rewicked a few of my own with various options, did some flavor testing and discussed the media with the resident masterbuilder and another outstanding flavorist producing elixirs of local vintage. The visit was short but instructive as I walk around with a dozen or more builds decked out in very kind of media and config conceivable. Nothing like stovetops or anything that esoteric but they can be rounded up too.



K, to cut to the chase, some impressions on this 18 hr. snapshot. Can't recall the exact time put into play but was still working the Trident v1 .85Ω build I mentioned yesterday. Previously wicked with KGD, perfect 26g t.m.c. at reset. It met the sun in about as good shape as KGD yesterday morning. None too worse for the wear in my favorite tobacco vehicle having been put through some nice challenges before bedtime. However, 18 hrs. in…

No particular hard bangin' brook but I was vapin' it as my walk around along with the ZNA and on arrival at the B&M. I don't generally try to blow clouds with this rig. But I'm always holdin' at least one tobacco setup. So this was a bit of a surprise. And naturally we're checkin' the mod connections, res. changes, etc. but it's straight up and had been a solid producer on KGD.

For the late arrivals, this was a medium density single strand not compressed. Just a smidgen of the tip made into a point to allow just a bit more media into the diameter (less than double the width). So not a lot of wick at all. It very easily slid back and forth. The ends cut to the well and tucked gingerly down into the well. Two small very airy tufts were tucked in underneath the wick ends (to support them). A very slightly longer tuft around the center post from the open side of the well to gather up juice and put it in contact with the light tuft bed and wick.

As you can see these swelled massively. It begs the question…where is the vapor production?

I'm like way far from making a call or connecting some of the tech data on this fiber with the above results. I'm three builds and two juice combo's into looking at this. Clearly though to me today CC doesn't handle dense pigmentation well. Where KGD, the big surprise, doubled the interval to this kind of saturation. Flavor did hold up to this point although not with the fullness of KGD and the vapor production as per the pic was merely adequate as you may see by then. So this brief experiment will likely be repeated and with different winds and power, various devices like the Immo which seems a likely candidate for the nature of saturation with this wick. We shall see.

Wish us luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Well, yesterday turned out to be wick evaluation day as I walked around several wick options and stopped in at one of my favorite haunts in S Fla, the SLV in Fort Lauderdale. Among these was CC as I rewicked a few of my own with various options, did some flavor testing and discussed the media with the resident masterbuilder and another outstanding flavorist producing elixirs of local vintage. The visit was short but instructive as I walk around with a dozen or more builds decked out in very kind of media and config conceivable. Nothing like stovetops or anything that esoteric but they can be rounded up too.



K, to cut to the chase, some impressions on this 18 hr. snapshot. Can't recall the exact time put into play but was still working the Trident v1 .85Ω build I mentioned yesterday. Previously wicked with KGD, perfect 26g t.m.c. at reset. It met the sun in about as good shape as KGD yesterday morning. None too worse for the wear in my favorite tobacco vehicle having been put through some nice challenges before bedtime. However, 18 hrs. in…

No particular hard bangin' brook but I was vapin' it as my walk around along with the ZNA and on arrival at the B&M. I don't generally try to blow clouds with this rig. But I'm always holdin' at least one tobacco setup. So this was a bit of a surprise. And naturally we're checkin' the mod connections, res. changes, etc. but it's straight up and had been a solid producer on KGD.

For the late arrivals, this was a medium density single strand not compressed. Just a smidgen of the tip made into a point to allow just a bit more media into the diameter (less than double the width). So not a lot of wick at all. It very easily slid back and forth. The ends cut to the well and tucked gingerly down into the well. Two small very airy tufts were tucked in underneath the wick ends (to support them). A very slightly longer tuft around the center post from the open side of the well to gather up juice and put it in contact with the light tuft bed and wick.

As you can see these swelled massively. It begs the question…where is the vapor production?

I'm like way far from making a call or connecting some of the tech data on this fiber with the above results. I'm three builds and two juice combo's into looking at this. Clearly though to me today CC doesn't handle dense pigmentation well. Where KGD, the big surprise, doubled the interval to this kind of saturation. Flavor did hold up to this point although not with the fullness of KGD and the vapor production as per the pic was merely adequate as you may see by then. So this brief experiment will likely be repeated and with different winds and power, various devices like the Immo which seems a likely candidate for the nature of saturation with this wick. We shall see.

Wish us luck.

Mac, perhaps it's just the photo's angle, but it looks like there was just slightly too much wick thru the coil. The shoulders, after full saturation, should be even with the top of the coil. if they sag under, not enough wick was used. If they are over, as it appears in this case, too much is used.

I'm not saying this is the reason for the poor performance, but could be part of it.

Below is a pic of a dark(ish) pigmented juice that has literally been sitting for the past 5 days. No excessive coil build up, still vapes roughly the same as day one. My camera is not taking photos of the vapor production very well (takes too long for my phone to prices the photo)

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[MacTechVpr]

Mac, perhaps it's just the photo's angle, but it looks like there was just slightly too much wick thru the coil. The shoulders, after full saturation, should be even with the top of the coil. if they sag under, not enough wick was used. If they are over, as it appears in this case, too much is used.

I'm not saying this is the reason for the poor performance, but could be part of it.

Below is a pic of a dark(ish) pigmented juice that has literally been sitting for the past 5 days. No excessive coil build up, still vapes roughly the same as day one. My camera is not taking photos of the vapor production very well (takes too long for my phone to prices the photo)

That would seem. The wick pretty much started as you pictured yours. I could easily pull the CC back and forth in this 3/32nd. And yes, there is a dimensional issue here. This is a Trident. The wick's sitting almost right on the deck. Also, as I said a wisp of CC under each end to avert sagging and aid transport plus a small circular stretch around the center post on the open side of the well ends leading back to the main well. Nope, what you're seeing is some pretty formidable retention (saturation). That is visually evident, also…not much vapor output at .85Ω despite that level of saturation. And a whole lot of overcooked juice at 20W. Usually I can slog the beast in juice with wild abandon. No problem. It just takes care of business. My Trident/M16 always rocks with very dense vapor whenever, whatever. It's never fussy. About the easiest build there is with straight wire.

Same wick Ø in a Helios I did yesterday for the ZNA looks like a toothpick .5cm above the floor. Comparable density on 5/64". On a Helios a much airier vape generally, much finer grain to the vapor. Likewise but with KGD although to be honest at 14W on the ZNA rocks the flavor at every channel.

Point being, I'm trying to equalize the pattern of juice retention particularly in single-coil setups. Second, at .85Ω we're lookin' at about 20W of power. Plenty of juice provided by channelling to drive this capable wick and perfectly firing tight t/t/p. So not the wind, not the wick density…???

Interestingly (took note of your pic) I have a similar wick set Ø running on an Omega with rather long legs at ~1.3Ω (to get right on the air hole). It was producing good vapor and pretty good flavor at 3.9-4.1V. I popped it off to an eVic reading res @ 1.2Ω and ran 11W to almost double the vapor. Vaped it a while, not bad. Got a lot of over-heat keys but it settled down nicely. Put it back on the same nZonic. Vaping great.

Puzzling. Why I was making the remark with the first build on the Nim/Origin inferring the wick was getting ahead of itself.

So what happened here exactly. Well if you take a look at a voltage chart, I dropped the power which made vaporization cooler for the wind and vaporization improved.

So I'd have to agree with you…less wick required. Not the doubling so many have been talking about. Also lot more air required. Which would make the formula for production on this wick quite airy indeed.

So, dunno. More ? than answers. Redoin' the CC wick. Breakin' out a Protrank. Can't be without my 'baccer.

 

[CMD-Ky]

You talk about cheap, this is it. I have moved to rayon, thanks to Jeremy in another thread. This with MacTech's tensioned no flame coil, I have become an excellent coil maker.

Glad you mentioned rayon and beat me to it.

Have you tested Grahams Cellucotton 100% pure rayon yet. Been reading some great reviews on a thread that's just exploding right now.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[CMD-Ky]

"readyxwick" seems to kiln the ceramic correctly. I find it difficult to work with, it is rather stiff, it is slow wick so I have used a small amount of cotton or rayon to the ends on my Taifun, Squape and over the top of my ProTank.

http://www.rbasupplies.com/

Me personally, I would be cautious about any man made fiber. I've been studying Nextel for almost a year. I began with the scientific research done on the material going back a decade before its introduction in vaping. I am reasonably assured by the evidence that kilning as recommended and precisely articulated by 3M eradicates virtually any vestiges of residuals of any kind (vaporization) within the media. Furthermore, Nextel has an extraordinarily high heat resistance so that it's potential to add to vaporization components is practically nill (unless abused). So to my perspective the question begs to be asked…is an alternative adding anything to this picture? Well for one what is rayon's contribution to longevity (wick life) or its proclivity to get singed or gunked up in vaporization. In other words, what does it bring to the table?

I use a lot of cotton. Many varieties. I'm liking the lower heat sensitivity of the directional fibers in KGD. And it's flow. I don't see that construction in rayon particularly. So I'm skeptical of accounts of its wicking. It's probably comparable to natural uniformly good quality cotton. Relatively directional in grain. Does it compress well to expedite flow? Skeptical there too.

However, it may yield some interesting taste benefits. Certainly many are saying. So no doubt I will test at some point.

Brook I'd be interested only in the lyocell rayon / Tencel material, only if the specific producer clearly defined the chemical process utilized excluded toxic chemistry (such as to suppress fuzzing). In a similar way that 3M adds sizing to its insulation which subsequently must be removed by kilning. So any secondary process must be considered. And how do we do that consistently? Given rayon's characteristics if even benign processes implied some residual what would the removal or extraction of such entail? Boiling? Torching? Not likely. Just remember LBB applies, methinks.

It's bad enough that Nextel is single source. And yes if this thing takes off we do need alternatives as a community. So it's a serious topic of interest to me. Let the research continue. We all need due diligence as individuals. We also need such alternatives. If you'd be so kind, I'd appreciate a sample. PM me for particulars. And thanks. I'm looking this morning and can't find stock. Two separate supplies of KGD enroute.

Good luck brook, think Tencel!



p.s. This is starting to resemble last Spring. Maybe a good thing!