Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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arilen

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happened across this thread today...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/469696-wire-wrapping-coils.html

through that, i happened across this video... 20131023_000425.mp4 - YouTube

i thought to myself, that's a pretty simple tool that could be made at home.

so i mic'd out a paper clip within .03mm of the same diameter as my 1/16" drill bit (the mandrel end).
then i mic'd out a wire hanger within .02mm of the diameter of my 5/64" drill bit. (again, the mandrel end)

found myself a 3mm cap head screw, 2 3mm (m3) flat washers and 2 m3 nuts and got to bending the paper clip around them in between the washers. cap head screws have narrow heads that wouldn't bite the paper clip and hold it just right. then put the extra nut on and voila!!! easy 1/16" micro coil. just needs cotton pulled through.

but i didn't have anything easily found that would suffice for the larger diameter.

so i went to lowes. in the hardware section i found m5 bolts and nuts. just over a dollar and 20 minutes later.... voila!!!! easy 5/64" micro coil.

just make sure you count your wraps if you're going by them and slowly release the first sprung wrap when you release the coil. then count the rest as you remove them slowly. easy peasy.

Yeah, I found that thread awhile back and made one as well, works pretty good, I just need to find some smaller wire, mine is alot bigger then 1.5mm probably closer to 2.5mm, I made a few coil with it but it wasn't the same as a smaller coil, guess I need to make a smaller diameter one and give it another try.
 

MacTechVpr

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happened across this thread today...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/469696-wire-wrapping-coils.html

through that, i happened across this video... 20131023_000425.mp4 - YouTube

i thought to myself, that's a pretty simple tool that could be made at home.
Yeah, I found that thread awhile back and made one as well, works pretty good, I just need to find some smaller wire, mine is alot bigger then 1.5mm probably closer to 2.5mm, I made a few coil with it but it wasn't the same as a smaller coil, guess I need to make a smaller diameter one and give it another try.

Thanks for kicking in and confirming the principle. Yea, telecom workers among others have been using hand mandrels forever. They're a bit pricey as you noted. Jigs can be too unless you build one and cumbersome as well. But a jig allows you an important advantage as I noted at post #211…the application of tension. Not all of us have the dexterity and combined finger strength necessary for a hand wind on any tool. And that's what I was talking' about. Forcing form into the wire. Holding wire taught is not easy or consistent without leverage of some kind. But a forceps and screwdriver accomplishes the same thing with hand tension. A 5$ standard instrument screw set and inexpensive forceps can provide a reliable wind along a known metric like 1/16" i.d. as a repeatable target for resistance.

Simple solution, simple wind — predictable outcome. And ready for the build, if you don't happen to have a torch.

Good luck!

:)
 
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beckdg

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mac;

if you're going to use the screw drivers to wrap coils on, may i suggest using a fine hack saw to cut a groove where the handle meets the tool to hold your kanthal in place.

check this video for reference... Ecig Wrapping Ribbon Microcoil - YouTube

Myk (Myk63 on youtube) explains a bit here... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/evic/476583-rda-evic.html#post10932313

then 2 posts later in that thread, he posts the video above.

now, i'm not a metallurgist, watch maker or a jeweler, but in the vid he also explains it's better to let the kanthal cool slower. that way it doesn't get brittle or springy from quenching. with that information, i've noticed a couple other people mention it also. makes sense. super cooling is typically harmful from my understanding.

though, that jig really is the bees knees. don't get any easier from what i've seen so far. took me less effort to make the jig than to wrap a coil. then the next coil was done in no time. no effort, perfect coil. can't ask for more.
 
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MacTechVpr

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mac;

if you're going to use the screw drivers to wrap coils on, may i suggest using a fine hack saw to cut a groove where the handle meets the tool to hold your kanthal in place.

check this video for reference... Ecig Wrapping Ribbon Microcoil - YouTube

Myk (Myk63 on youtube) explains a bit here... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/evic/476583-rda-evic.html#post10932313

then 2 posts later in that thread, he posts the video above.

now, i'm not a metallurgist, watch maker or a jeweler, but in the vid he also explains it's better to let the kanthal cool slower. that way it doesn't get brittle or springy from quenching. with that information, i've noticed a couple other people mention it also. makes sense. super cooling is typically harmful from my understanding.

though, that jig really is the bees knees. don't get any easier from what i've seen so far. took me less effort to make the jig than to wrap a coil. then the next coil was done in no time. no effort, perfect coil. can't ask for more.

Neat trick that (bookmark+). As for brittle, I don't mind a little ninja in my coils. The method's excellent for ribbon on the KPT. Perfect for cotton. What about other media? Not rigid enough. What about larger media? Too loose. I'm researching tight builds for the Immo, different wire wind method. Trying to find the lowest possible resistance with the greatest amount of surface area. And it's got to be easy to do, and easier to install. Producing some contact coils but not yet with enough consistency. If I go small, I'll go micro yes. But I don't like the needle as a mandrel, personally. I like to torch directly on the original bit while the form is intact. Over time I don't think the needle's durable enough or the diameter consistent enough from one to the next. My picayune preferences. Don't mind me.

Recommendations I'm suggesting here are for the average user to make successful predictable first and further attempts. Or, you would have found me on the vertical micro thread long ago! LOL Not necessarily what I'd be experimenting with or am fascinated by. And there is plenty here on ECF to entertain for quite a while.

Personally I like jeweler's collet drivers (fixed, non stepped bits) have enough real estate in the tip to do 2 dz. turns or more and are sturdy enough to allow some formidable leverage. Also as a comp net consultant I worked along telecom pro's many years. It was there that I first saw this technique employed. I certainly didn't invent it. And the first time I was shown it the tech simply slid the wire into the collet as he screwed down on the bit. And from there it doesn't budge. It binds at the end of the wire so you don't lose anything you're not going to trim anyway. Recalling that method as I worked out my own I realized the efficiency of it. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. But if you're handy with a hack saw, have at it. I'm recommending simple tools because that's what folks can get to. And I think most of us have some instrument screwdrivers lying around somewhere.

No matter what b we both know you got's to have a metric to get it right the second time. It doesn't matter much what you use if you don't. You'll be cursing high end turns and wasting paper towels 'till the cows come home.

Thanks and good luck.

:)
 

elfy

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Honestly the only reason it even occurred to me originally was because the needle I have does not fit in the Kanger head slots (though, again, it fits aro head slots perfectly). I actually had a needle that did fit the Kanger heads (was a 14 or 16 guage needle, not sure which), but it vanished into the ether on me. I am going to acquire a 1/16" drill bit when I get a chance, if for no other reason (other than it fitting properly) than to have a diameter consistent with many of the builds detailed in this and related threads. There is something to be said for consistency.

Still, I like the idea of being able to choose your mandrel diameter independently of the slot size on a given coil head, so I may pursue this matter nevertheless.


Check this out: http://www.harborfreight.com/16-piece-precision-screwdriver-set-4143.html

1) its cheap and 2) you can make tiny coils off it and C) you can also easily scrunch the coils together on the (I use the 2mm) little edge it has ..I use the slotted screwdrivers, and they do the job.

I also use this to see what im doing: http://www.harborfreight.com/jumbo-helping-hands-with-led-lights-65779.html

But thats just me, if you got super eyes then have at it. I used to, but not anymore lol. I took off the bar with the alligator clips, I dont need that..just need to see up close.
 
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MacTechVpr

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Check this out: http://www.harborfreight.com/16-piece-precision-screwdriver-set-4143.html

1) its cheap and 2) you can make tiny coils off it and C) you can also easily scrunch the coils together on the (I use the 2mm) little edge it has ..I use the slotted screwdrivers, and they do the job.

I also use this to see what im doing: http://www.harborfreight.com/jumbo-helping-hands-with-led-lights-65779.html

But thats just me, if you got super eyes then have at it. I used to, but not anymore lol. I took off the bar with the alligator clips, I dont need that..just need to see up close.

Some great suggestions. I have something similar for magnification. It definitely helps save your eyes and back. I think that only having a 1.5mm bit is going to leave out a lot of media. Many of us just can't thread 1.5mm media into that small of a coil. And too often 1.5mm is actually too large even for 1/16" or too tight when saturated.

I like these simple sturdy sets from eBay for general work…

New 6pcs Phillips Flat Blade Screwdriver Laptop Watch Mobile Phone Repair Tool | eBay
6pcs 0 8 1 8mm Flat Blade Slotted Screwdriver Watch Mobile Phone Repair Tool Kit | eBay


These include the two most important 1.5mm, nominally 1/16", and 1.8mm (mid-way to 2mm) sizes necessary for 1.5mm media on the KPT. Often 1.5mm media will not easily feed into 1/16" if at all. Then the 1.8mm (sometimes marked 3/43", 1.78mm) is essential in the collection. Plus 2mm for those attempting thicker wicks and relocating with another guide. If hollow the 1.5mm driver is perfect for relocating coil sets. The second collection has 4 add minor and micro sizes for those preferring cotton builds.

Finding collections including the 1.8mm is sometimes difficult. European makers of precision jeweler's drivers often omit this size. Clone producers do so too. Here's an inexpensive offering…

9in1 1 6 1 20 Phillips 0 8 2 0 Flat Blade Watch Repair Screwdriver Tools Set Kit | eBay

Hope this information helps.

Good luck.

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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Been working on the Vertical Hollow-Micro since last night, with no luck.. Back to horizantal for me!! I'm craving a decent vape right now

I wish I had the time for that adventure! Cotton is such an unforgiving mistress when you try to rein her in.

Good luck M!

:)
 

beckdg

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Neat trick that (bookmark+). As for brittle, I don't mind a little ninja in my coils. The method's excellent for ribbon on the KPT. Perfect for cotton. What about other media? Not rigid enough. What about larger media? Too loose. I'm researching tight builds for the Immo, different wire wind method. Trying to find the lowest possible resistance with the greatest amount of surface area. And it's got to be easy to do, and easier to install. Producing some contact coils but not yet with enough consistency. If I go small, I'll go micro yes. But I don't like the needle as a mandrel, personally. I like to torch directly on the original bit while the form is intact. Over time I don't think the needle's durable enough or the diameter consistent enough from one to the next. My picayune preferences. Don't mind me.

Recommendations I'm suggesting here are for the average user to make successful predictable first and further attempts. Or, you would have found me on the vertical micro thread long ago! LOL Not necessarily what I'd be experimenting with or am fascinated by. And there is plenty here on ECF to entertain for quite a while.

Personally I like jeweler's collet drivers (fixed, non stepped bits) have enough real estate in the tip to do 2 dz. turns or more and are sturdy enough to allow some formidable leverage. Also as a comp net consultant I worked along telecom pro's many years. It was there that I first saw this technique employed. I certainly didn't invent it. And the first time I was shown it the tech simply slid the wire into the collet as he screwed down on the bit. And from there it doesn't budge. It binds at the end of the wire so you don't lose anything you're not going to trim anyway. Recalling that method as I worked out my own I realized the efficiency of it. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. But if you're handy with a hack saw, have at it. I'm recommending simple tools because that's what folks can get to. And I think most of us have some instrument screwdrivers lying around somewhere.

No matter what b we both know you got's to have a metric to get it right the second time. It doesn't matter much what you use if you don't. You'll be cursing high end turns and wasting paper towels 'till the cows come home.

Thanks and good luck.

:)

i applaud your effort.

and i certainly understand the methods your teaching here and what they're reported to produce.

but i don't get it to be honest, mac.

personally, i think with the time and money people invest into vaping and gear... and especially failures that lead to more gear...

that something so much easier and less expensive than 3 new heads... that produces exacting replications... of working standards... that produce perfectly optimal results...

would pay off in dividends time and time again.

but! it seems to me;

  • you've not shared your collet drivers and bits even though, they'd take the agony out of the winding process immediately with perfect results.
  • you've all but shot down the very easily replicable jig that makes making a perfect coil every time nearly impossible to screw up and effortless.
  • putting a notch in the screw driver doesn't seem acceptable although it will eliminate the cumbersome, irritating aspect of trying to hold or tape your wire and having to utilize an extra tool (which many people actually won't have).
  • and yet, it seems you're referring back to a post that alludes to a much more difficult way to go about things and requires extra materials and tools to accomplish the same task.


i'm seriously scratching my head here, mac.

all this just to standardize to 1.8mm?

i'll admit i like my cotton and it's working great for me. going through maybe 3 tanks a day and the first 12 wrap 5/64" 28Ga 1.8Ω coil i made is still performing like new. no gurgles, no hot legs, room full of plume when i chain vape. insert happy camper.

but!

1.8mm OR 1.78mm wouldn't be hard to replicate with the jig... just mic a coat hanger to 1.82 or 1.8, bend it up in an m5 bolt with a pair of m5 nuts then run some wet/dry sand paper down the length to take out any burrs. then literally make your perfect coil effortlessly in seconds every time... right off the coil... with little to no waste every time.

it's not like you're pulling on the coat hanger. pinching it gives it all the tension you need with a lot less effort than pulling on a tool and breaking kanthal. even so, the coat hanger would be plenty stout for even 28Ga kanthal.

if you want, i'll build you one to your preferred diameter and mail it to you. (pm me of course) then you can mess with the other options when you feel like there's not enough stress in your life to warrant vaping. or you can buy a new car online.



:pervy:

but anyway, maybe i'm just a little thick, but i don't get it. i just don't. i want easy. inexpensive is a plus as long as there's no sacrifice. this all seems sacrificial of my sanity by way of difficulty and more expensive to boot.

if i'm missing the boat by way of the short bus, please enlighten me.
 

arilen

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As of lately I have been making twisted 32 gauge coils that I think I'm falling in love with,lol.

I take a single strand of 32g and fold it in half so both ends are even, then I get out my electric drill and but the center where the fold is in-between the chuck on the drill and tighten it till it pinches the wire tight to hold it.

then I take a pair of pliers and hold the other two ends tight, while applying some tension I then turn the drill on while it laying on the table on its side and it twists the crap out of the wire.

Now I don't know how many twist it does but it alot, I usually go until one end of the wire brakes, either at the drill or the pliers.

Then I wrap a normal microcoil on a 1/16 drill bit.

The vapor and flavor in my opinion is a step above a plain coil.

The only down side, at least with the juice I use, is that it tends to gunk up a little faster.

But to me if the flavor and vapor are better it worth it, the last time I twisted some I did about 2 ft of twisted wire, so I wont need to twist any for a while.

Here is a pic of the wire after twisting it.
Sorry if its a little crappy my camera phone sucks

ary6ygy9.jpg


If you hold enough tension the twist stays pretty consistent.
 
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beckdg

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p.s. Nobody's advocating building on 1.8Ω times infinity. Dream on that.

you are correct.

this includes myself.

hopefully you noticed jigs of 2 different diameters. what you couldn't notice is i'm using 32Ga and 28Ga kanthal and a thinner nichrome of an unknown Gauge. i'm making coils for the wife for our ego battery and another specific coil for when she uses the protanks on the VW device.

i just happen to have reported on the coil and wick i prefer and have first hand experience with. pretty much using on a constant basis vs. the 6 or so she's been switching between and not keeping track of.

to get to the point. my post was a question. asking for clarity. not to be redundant, but to repeat the question...

why immediately discredit a cheaper, faster, easier alternative that replicates exacting standards time after time and costs no more than the tools we're already discussing? likely even less...
 

MacTechVpr

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One other problem I am having that is more then likely cause by my juice ( cinnageek which is a sweet cinnamon juice from Vapegeek.com )

I must change my wick and dry burn at least every other day or vapor and throat hit go to crap, the coil will be all gunked up and take a few to light up when I dry burn it.

could I be vaping the juice to high, 11 watts on a mvp and causing it be caramelized?

it never tastes burnt unless I have my wick to tight and its not wicking well.

I have had a coil in for nearly a week before wrapping a new one but it was still good just wanted to try something different.

How long does a micro with 30 gauge last y'all.

Imagine cooking and butter. If you heat it really fast and not too much you can really punch the flavor. Too long, you pour it on your popcorn and it's flat. As it cools some flavor recovers but its not rich. It's lost the creaminess leaving it, perhaps, greasy? Cook it too fast and too hot and it starts to caramelize, yes.

The way I see it you're looking for the optimal heat or energy for that juice in that pan (the device). On good cookware that result could be easier or better because of the quality (denseness) of the material…more efficient heat distribution. On the 5 buck pan from xyzmart you can fry it in a heartbeat, and yes, scorch it.

On the KPT, clearo's in general, caramelization is a problem. I run thick juices or variations starting with my main Johnson Creek varieties. The closer I run to 8W the less tank time I get before I start to see discoloration. Once it starts, there's no return. And continued application of significant heat only accelerates the process. Too much heat applied and the carbonation on the coil starts to spit off, you may not hear it. But you can taste it and even feel it as a gritty taste or throat sensation in the vape.

It's been my observation, even as I try to limit the exuberance to under 8W, that once a tank falls below 45-50% cap., that's when trace discoloration or texture changes begin. Usually on a second fill. My max time for 95% VG is about 3 fills from 1/3. All of this to round up on strictly 30g using contact coils between 1/16" and 2mm.

I'm not thrilled about that arlien. It's a lot of work maintaining these tanks on flavorful juices. But it is what it is. You wanna press that gas pedal and sometimes the speed limits at 10W, expect to hit the end of the road sooner. Pure physics.

I've been busy here trying to find ways for newb's like me to quickly efficiently produce tight builds with satisfying results. That's been the focus of my posts. And I appreciate everybody's contribution on this thread confirming efficient basic building techniques and results. But I am experimenting in a lot of areas myself. And your question once we get beyond controlling hot spots and flooding a very good one.

Myself I agree with Lance Wallen, the creative talent at his mod company Steam Monkey, and no slouch on the theories of electricity and flavor I don't believe that the optimal of flavor for a human is necessarily at the extremes of either low resistance or high wattage. A lot of nice parlor tricks may be made of these or delivery methods that provide the equivalent of huge acceleration in heat transfer. I think the answer is right under our noses. And the solution the most efficient application of energy to those fine scrambled eggs we have as infinite variety of juices. Within that there's a lot of room to play without burning the pan.

I'm personally heading in the direction of ceramic based devices like the Ody and Immo. They have the potential to provide the cool efficient heat transfer characteristics necessary to max out flavor. But the builds, like those for clearo's, must be carefully precise. My experience with the the ceramic based Immo has impressed me that the balance of power and flavor is in a carefully balanced center. And I'm working on finding the tightest builds on that device as well as Kanger's.

I appreciate your observations on twisted wire. Although not practical to my discussion on this forum. We share a similar observation though. I'm no longer as concerned about resistance and increasingly more interested in applied wire surface values. Still for the beginner it's important to know where the center of the flavor band is and learn efficient wind methods to target it.

A recent quick read consolidated some important observations I've seen spread all over ECF on power and flavor…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...498500-do-mechs-heat-coils-faster-better.html'

Although I love pushing the envelope and more prepared to get there than most, once I understood the mechanics here, and why folks where having such difficulty, I became focused on one mission — Trying to help end that as painlessly as possible by demonstrating the most efficient techniques for consistent repeatable builds. To shorten the struggle for a reliable straightforward vape. That's what the rest of us want.

This thread can go sideways like a million others with all of us posting our personal wins. I hope it doesn't too much and stays focused on the premises of building reliable microcoil for the Protank. Confirming those wins and details. Or everything we've said or added, desert sand.

Good luck arlien. That is a nice wire.

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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you are correct.

this includes myself.

hopefully you noticed jigs of 2 different diameters. what you couldn't notice is i'm using 32Ga and 28Ga kanthal and a thinner nichrome of an unknown Gauge. i'm making coils for the wife for our ego battery and another specific coil for when she uses the protanks on the VW device.

i just happen to have reported on the coil and wick i prefer and have first hand experience with. pretty much using on a constant basis vs. the 6 or so she's been switching between and not keeping track of.

to get to the point. my post was a question. asking for clarity. not to be redundant, but to repeat the question...

why immediately discredit a cheaper, faster, easier alternative that replicates exacting standards time after time and costs no more than the tools we're already discussing? likely even less...

Thanks your reply, even though I didn't have a chance to fully answer yours.

I appreciated your post on the needle wind. Done it myself. Made mods to mandrels and guides. Did my first compression coil based on vapdivrr's videos. Used a blunt needle. Couldn't thread the results forever with anything but cotton. Saw no help anywhere. So I just happen to think that a needle is not a broadly applicable or efficient tool. And the variations in diameter are more prevalent on a cheap needle than the average 1/16" screwdriver. Although you will see variations in both. So it makes it less practical to hit a consistent resistance goal.

I wasn't dissin' you Beck. I just disagree with you. I never said it doesn't work. Or even that it's not the best way for most. And if someone wants to wind on their grandmother's hairpin…that's their prerogative. We all have to figure it out in our way. Better that they try, I say.

So no, I'm not saying your suggestion is invalid. I'm also not implying you don't or can't achieve a true or consistent result. I'm sure you do. I just don't believe it's a technique that's broadly applicable to the average user.

I also will post, primarily focused to those who are struggling, what I found and why I believe it may or may not work…and show what proof I have to demonstrate my contention.

I leave it to others to decide whether I'm dissin' 'em or not by the suggestion.

I think I have a right to disagree. Don't you?

In any case, it's worthy of all of us to make the best effort to help those who are strugglin' to get over as we have.

Nobody ever said life was easy or every answer perfect.

Good luck to ya Beck.

:)
 
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beckdg

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needle?

dissin'?

right to disagree?

grandmothers hairpin?

life easy?

i thought my question was well outlined and self explanatory. all the politics aren't necessary.

obviously, you're not winding around your favorite media. you're winding then inserting according to everything i can discern from this discussion. thus all you have to find is your correct I.D. of your coil for proper application. then coil media and gauge, resistance and winds are a matter of preference. is it not?

media is irrelevant from the question. for clarification purposes.

it's not a matter of disagreement. with the tools you're suggesting, there's a level of strength, dexterity and intricacy/patience/focus involved which we can easily remove from the equation. then we can focus on our favorite media. coil repeatability will be of no concern.

material is not the issue. it's irrelevant to the point. i'm not suggesting we disassemble gramma's depends for cotton wicks here. i was about to hit buy on some 304 tool steel in 1/16" and 5/64" diameters myself. i decided, though that i wanted my jig immediately and happened to use what was on hand.

all i'm saying is let's all get jiggy wit' it. well.... unless UR not down. if not, do explain. why it be so impo'tant to be workin' so hard fo' da easy windy ting?

you're obviously a smart, educated guy. enlighten us. i think it's just so simple that everyone can use it... surely a better percentage than are capable of making a PT (1, 2013, 2, 3, mini, mini 2, tatroe, evod... or anything that works with their heads for that matter) work for them.

took me a couple weeks to work out the kinks for my 1 and 2 for example. with the jig, i made a perfect contact coil without the need for annealing on the first try. that's a very wide margin in success rate that eliminates one leg of the animal we call PT failure.
 

MacTechVpr

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needle?

dissin'?

right to disagree?

grandmothers hairpin?

life easy?

i thought my question was well outlined and self explanatory. all the politics aren't necessary.

obviously, you're not winding around your favorite media. you're winding then inserting according to everything i can discern from this discussion. thus all you have to find is your correct I.D. of your coil for proper application. then coil media and gauge, resistance and winds are a matter of preference. is it not?

media is irrelevant from the question. for clarification purposes.

it's not a matter of disagreement. with the tools you're suggesting, there's a level of strength, dexterity and intricacy/patience/focus involved which we can easily remove from the equation. then we can focus on our favorite media. coil repeatability will be of no concern.

material is not the issue. it's irrelevant to the point. i'm not suggesting we disassemble gramma's depends for cotton wicks here. i was about to hit buy on some 304 tool steel in 1/16" and 5/64" diameters myself. i decided, though that i wanted my jig immediately and happened to use what was on hand.

all i'm saying is let's all get jiggy wit' it. well.... unless UR not down. if not, do explain. why it be so impo'tant to be workin' so hard fo' da easy windy ting?

you're obviously a smart, educated guy. enlighten us. i think it's just so simple that everyone can use it... surely a better percentage than are capable of making a PT (1, 2013, 2, 3, mini, mini 2, tatroe, evod... or anything that works with their heads for that matter) work for them.

took me a couple weeks to work out the kinks for my 1 and 2 for example. with the jig, i made a perfect contact coil without the need for annealing on the first try. that's a very wide margin in success rate that eliminates one leg of the animal we call PT failure.

I find it difficult to understand what point specifically you are trying to make.

My position is simple — that winding a contact coil on a common screwdriver with tension is easier for the average user and those with less than average capabilities as well. That it is an option more practically available and suitable to most of us. That is all. I think I have made a good case for that argument including observations on two threads that the 5/64" diameter cannot be brought down to an optimal position in the design without risking the coil. [For the Protank, the topic of this thread, specifically.]

I took the time to acknowledge your posts. And explained how my recommendations and some personal preferences differed from yours. That is all.

If you insist, as you appear, to have been offended by something I've said, cite it here specifically. If I may see how I have, you will receive my earnest apology and we will be done.

Good luck!

:)
 
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beckdg

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I find it difficult to understand what point specifically you are trying to make.

i can see that.

My position is simple — that winding a contact coil on a common screwdriver with tension is easier for the average user and those with less than average capabilities as well.

after trying both, i highly doubt you've tried the jig in the video and still have that opinion.

That it is an option more practically available

if this is where your approach to your opinion lies, then i will say yes... it is often much easier to click the buy button than it is to make something yourself. though... the end result might be that life as a whole has been made easier in the long run via the opposed method. i believe that would be the case for anyone capable of building the simple jig... or someone willing to accept one.

and suitable to most of us. That is all.

depends on your definition of suitable. my definition of suitable is a simple tool that makes a rather arduous task for what it accomplishes very easy for the same accomplishment.

I think I have made a good case for that argument including observations on two threads that the 5/64" diameter cannot be brought down to an optimal position in the design without risking the coil.

i think the case that depends on a 5/64" anything blatantly ignores the fact i made myself both a 5/64" and a 1/16" and offered to make and send you free of charge your seemingly preferred ~1.8mm option of the same tool.

i can't argue that it might be tough to place a 5/64" coil correctly. but it's irrelevant to what i'm describing in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

I took the time to acknowledge your posts. And explained how my recommendations and some personal preferences differed from yours. That is all.

if that is what you did, i feel you likely did a lot of skimming of my posts or just didn't want to put merit to them. not that it matters. i'm simply discussing with you so that you could possibly understand me at this point.

If you insist, as you appear, to have been offended by something I've said, cite it here specifically.

the bolded... repeated and insisted upon... might be considered offensive. especially in lieu of addressing what i actually posted in favor of pre-conceived notions. for example insisting on basing something on a pre-determined diameter or resistance... which both have nothing to do with having a better tool to do the exact same job. the efficacy and ease of use of the tool is the point. the diameter is a variable we can choose.

If I may see how I have, you will receive my earnest apology and we will be done.

Good luck!

:)

not interested in an apology. interested in a discussion with someone paying attention. though, somehow, i do feel your statement is sincere. i respect you, mac. also, i don't believe you meant to insult me at an time. though, it seems somehow... i'm not getting through to you.
 

MacTechVpr

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...after trying both, i highly doubt you've tried the jig in the video and still have that opinion...i'm not getting through to you.

Sorry Beck, I don't think it's necessary that I have to defend my neutrality, veracity or attentiveness. I have no lack of any of these.

You are entitled to your doubts and skepticism.

I believe most who read my posts will clearly see the benefits of my suggestions and my purposes. As well yours. They are free to choose what advice or instruction they wish.

If it's real to them that they would benefit to accomplish it, they will try it.

I frankly don't care whether they choose to use jigs, screwdrivers or lollipop sticks…so long as what information I may share may to some degree help them with their struggle. Their success is my interest. And I believe that is evident.

Our exchange, however, is not beneficial and completely off topic. I happen to think the jig technique you espouse may be quite effective for many but not as universally as you think. We differ in opinion. That is all. No offense taken here. I recognize your earnest belief in your system. And I am nothing if not passionate about vaping as I'm sure you are.

Let's not you or I derail this thread any further. The subject is building effective Protank micro coils.

Let others decide what is useful for themselves.

Good luck!

:)
 
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