Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

10 different setups? We certainly don't vape the same way. I use one setup at a time. I vape one juice only. I vape my cinnamon Danish until it cannot be rewicked any longer. it has everything going against it except wonderful flavor. Then again, I only smoked one brand of cigarettes all those years, as well. BTW, I re-insert the mandrel to ensure coil integrity. If the mandrel will not work with the coil, then I replace the coil. I'm a stickler for proper coils and wicking and since I make most of my coils for the month in a few minutes often weeks ahead of time, I'd rather put a new, perfect coil on my device than worry about how many uses I get, or how long a coil lasts. My coils are so gunked up, that without inserting the mandrel, or a pin, I can't get them clean and ready to re-wick. My gunk factor is high and my need for an outstanding vape is strong. Why not replace the coil? At any given time, I have a dozen ready to install and that takes only a few seconds. Then a burn to oxidize layers, rewick, rewet, reinstall, then Nirvana.


View attachment 321314


A dozen coils in about 20 minutes. Easier to recoil than rewick a gunked up coil. Personally, I don't really like cleaning up the mess. I'd rather have a new perfect coil. YMMV. Good luck!

P.S. 10 tanks for me is 2 or 3 days...TOPS...and sometimes LESS! Again, YMMV.

Splendid coil. Now that's adhesion fella's!

Dense juices keep ya busy. No doubt about it. And all my fav's are. Have 13 rigs up, 7 in wick/wind/performance tests, 5 juices 2 in test and 4 variants awaiting assessment for producer. But I agree Bill, jigs and coilers are indispensable for many of my winds, but it is an art and a craft. Whether we realize it or not vaping is what we love, it's more than a lifestyle or a hobby. It's a passion, not a habit or or a ritual. We got rid of that one.

Good luck all.

 

[Mazinny]

Been a while and the list is lean. Lots of ya out there can do these now, both m.c. and t.mc. Let's hear from you if ya have a couple of good carto-meters for crosscheck. Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (or as noted), addendum in blue…

32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √ #601 Christopherja
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., m.c. =1.93Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. =1.83 Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.68 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.95Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.72Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 12/11, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.3Ω #241 vdaedalus
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω

Some standard verification m.c. winds are included for perspective. All results were three times hit, verified on separate cargo-meters and variable in operation. Wire spec is Temco, Kanthal A-1. Nominal lead lengths typically noted on avg. are ~7mm(Neg)+9.25mm(Pos).

m.c.= conventional (hand or mechanically wound) contact coil
t.m.c. = tensioned contact coil

Your submissions would be helpful and appreciated. Please post or pm and I will validate for this table as soon as possible.

(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications and its important to make the destination.)

Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).

Good luck all.

Mac, the resistance on the 29 g 1.5875 (1/16), seem a little high. The rest of your confirmed builds are a lot closer to the theoretical ( i used 16mm for the total length of legs ). They are also a lot higher than the resistance Bills Magic is getting with the same build, even if his builds have shorter legs.

btw when i put in numbers in the calculator i linked to a little above, there is something called "leg power loss" in percentage. The lower ohm builds, for the kanger, have higher percentage losses, and the calculator suggest i change the parameters for more efficiency. Do you have any idea why that is ?

i will put the link again, so its easier for you to check if you are so inclined. thanks !

Steam Engine | free calculators for your vaping endeavors

 

[MacTechVpr]

Many thanks. I have a coiling machine that does a very nice job for me, and really quick. I've been making coils for about a year now and have done all the builds and experiments that interested me and now just enjoy a 10 wrap coil (sometimes 9) with 29 guage on a 1/16" mandrel. The key is tension, adhesion and compression, then careful layering by firing. I never use tweezers or torch my coils, nor do I need to. It's simply not necessary if the build is right. 9 wraps is about 1.3 ohms and 10 is about 1.5 ohms. So, my coils generally are between 1.2 and 1.5 ohms, or "my sweet spot." YMMV. Good luck!~

Good morning Bill. Wheww! Whether you realize it or not you bring up a slippery issue. That of resistance variability with mechanical tension. That when you apply an element of force beyond the known values of a hand tensioned wind the instrument check is vital. Preferably two meters.

I just recorded a new low yesterday evening prior to my resistance tables post but did not record it…

29AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω

My grip must have been exceedingly robust last night!

I did closely examine the build and cross check it on multiple devices and VAPV's finding no error or misalignment under magnification. I can't explain it other than to again confirm the effects of tension. Normally a given individual's applied constant strength doesn't vary that much, enough to produce a .3Ω variation. It remains unvalidated until I have at least two successive builds verified on at least two metering devices. If there's a disparity I reset, new batt's and try again. Continuing divergence or variation, discard. Something's causing the variance. Skew on the mount, for example. But it's not reliable to use as a target.

I would imagine that the consistency of tension on a coiler would be outstanding. It would be marvelous to have the precision to dial up the result within a half-Ω. That's been sort of my agenda with my posted tables to set that moderate goal post for tensioned hand winds.

I'll add that this has become increasingly difficult with the advent of the silicone grommet. They are far more slippery than rubber. Even when dry a bit too much tension in the set and the coil may deform exhibiting a change in horizontal orientation or skew depending on where and how much tension was released (or added) by the slip. More of a nuisance than anything. But you end up sometimes having to bounce the base back and forth between devices for res check several times before it's evident what it really is. The tables I have, more filled out with events, help shed some light. But for the average user I can imagine this does bring substantial confusion.

The techniques I continue to elaborate on here have become progressively tighter. A .05Ω and upwards improvement from a standard m.c. is typical I've found in workshops and demo's I give. I've added some examples of m.c. validations for contrast and to demonstrate that a .1Ω improvement is possible. More routine for me.

I've come to suspect lately though that silicone grommets are yielding lower resistance values. It seems possible to stretch the leads more with them even with finger pressure during the process of setting the grommet and pin. I've had to forego using forceps. HOWEVER, the silicone yields back this stretch quite quickly when encountering modifying force, i.e. putting your topper on the mod, and slip results leaving you with some interim expression of resistance.

Bottom line, rubber grommets were far more stable. And I've come to the conclusion that silicone is not an advantage at all. It merely masks the flavor of a bad build and allows one to continue vaping an inefficient result. Where is the advantage in that? An insulator is essentially a fuse of sorts that should give adequate warning.

Right now it would seem its purpose is otherwise.

(Pardon my cynicism that it's not clear to me how it eases consumer confidence about the bad taste of burny grommets, i.e. Let them vape burnt. Bring on the dual-coils! We need more steam.)

If anything this complicates reliable rebuilding of clearo's for everyone.

Just sayin'.

But coming full circle, my goal here is to produce an efficient readily accessible process that is repeatable. Such that the average user can rely on reaching a given target consistently to improve their vape. Not a great deal of tension is required to achieve that objective as we discussed early on. Anyone can do it, easily. And shorts go out the door along with the mystery. So I do agree with you on the desirability of precision and I am a fan of automation and technology. But man there is something to be said about the art of personal craftsmanship. And that sometimes as simple as possible, but not simpler remains true and practical.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

I must say that the coiler takes not only the fun out of it, but also the time, and the artistry. Now it's just so ho-hum, perfect coil, after perfect coil, after perfect coil, in seconds, without thinking about it.......oh yeah, that's what I wanted! Check out my blog for ideas on the subject, and good luck!

How easy/costly is building one of these coiling machines? Do you have your build for coiling machine in your blog? Don't get me wrong, my pin vise does a decent job for me, but always looking to increase build quality from the below.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[Mazinny]

10 different setups? We certainly don't vape the same way. I use one setup at a time. I vape one juice only. I vape my cinnamon Danish until it cannot be rewicked any longer. it has everything going against it except wonderful flavor. Then again, I only smoked one brand of cigarettes all those years, as well. BTW, I re-insert the mandrel to ensure coil integrity. If the mandrel will not work with the coil, then I replace the coil. I'm a stickler for proper coils and wicking and since I make most of my coils for the month in a few minutes often weeks ahead of time, I'd rather put a new, perfect coil on my device than worry about how many uses I get, or how long a coil lasts. My coils are so gunked up, that without inserting the mandrel, or a pin, I can't get them clean and ready to re-wick. My gunk factor is high and my need for an outstanding vape is strong. Why not replace the coil? At any given time, I have a dozen ready to install and that takes only a few seconds. Then a burn to oxidize layers, rewick, rewet, reinstall, then Nirvana. Here's a shot of my coils:

View attachment 321308View attachment 321311View attachment 321316

Here's my coiler:

View attachment 321312View attachment 321314

A dozen coils in about 20 minutes. Easier to recoil than rewick a gunked up coil. Personally, I don't really like cleaning up the mess. I'd rather have a new perfect coil. YMMV. Good luck!

P.S. 10 tanks for me is 2 or 3 days...TOPS...and sometimes LESS! Again, YMMV.

Yeah, we definitely don't vape the same ! Right now i have 3 pt2's, i mini pt, 2 Aspires, 2 Iclear 30s, and two Kayfun clones going ! You are lucky to have found your magic juice. I have tried over a 100 juices in the past year, the great majority of which are more than two thirds full still. I have about 1200 ml of juice, that while not unvapable, i am just not excited about, and keep on trying new companies. I think i will retire the Aspire, IClear and Kangers soon, when i get two more Kayfun and two Taifun clones which are on the way. They are just so much easier to rebuild and perform a lot better. The Aspires in particular are a pita to re-build.

And you definitely vape more than i do. The ten clearos i have hold about 30 ml altogether and it takes me a week to go through them, so typically i do my maintenance and refilling on Sundays. Every few Sundays i recoil, with the exception of the Iclear 30S which i replace every two or three months or so.

P.s. those coils are gorgeous. I wish i had the slightest clue on building those coilers !

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, the resistance on the 29 g 1.5875 (1/16), seem a little high...Steam Engine | free calculators for your vaping endeavors

Thanks for the heads up Mazinny. I appreciate that. This table is worthless to new m.c. builders if it's not accurate. Close to theoretical or slightly under.

My question though is which 29AWG result are you referring to? Wind count?

Also I've been using the steam eng online for some time. I collect these tools. Also computing the theoretical by typical method and considering the pythagorean as well. I've recommended often here for users to measure the length of their leads. Neg is almost rock solid at 7mm. Pos can vary slightly with gauge. I posted my nominal values in remarks for this last table. I'm usually close to theoretical and on occasion a few hundredths under. +/- .03Ω

I'm becoming a bit concerned about the trend here, if you read my above two posts. Holding on to my reserve of rubber and buying more.

I'm rewinding a bunch of stuff anew with rubber again as I have a chance. Apart from initial test and break in anomalies, I've gotten wild variations in operation. And I attribute it to the combination of silicone and a bit too much tension.

There ya have it. LMK

Thanks and good luck.



p.s. If you have a validated, multi meter verified build value, I'd be happy to validate it and publish. Let me know anytime. Building the street map here for those that aren't up to the math (yet).

 

[MacTechVpr]

How easy/costly is building one of these coiling machines? Do you have your build for coiling machine in your blog? Don't get me wrong, my pin vise does a decent job for me, but always looking to increase build quality from the below.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Brook you're gonna be famous with that shot! Google pic's high note. Tag it pin vise contact micro coil.

Way to go!

 

[Mazinny]

Thanks for the heads up Mazinny. I appreciate that. This table is worthless to new m.c. builders if it's not accurate. Close to theoretical or slightly under.

My question though is which 29AWG result are you referring to? Wind count?

Also I've been using the steam eng online for some time. I collect these tools. Also computing the theoretical by typical method and considering the pythagorean as well. I've recommended often here for users to measure the length of their leads. Neg is almost rock solid at 7mm. Pos can vary slightly with gauge. I posted my nominal values in remarks for this last table. I'm usually close to theoretical and on occasion a few hundredths under. +/- .03Ω

I'm becoming a bit concerned about the trend here, if you read my above two posts. Holding on to my reserve of rubber and buying more.

I'm rewinding a bunch of stuff anew with rubber again as I have a chance. Apart from initial test and break in anomalies, I've gotten wild variations in operation. And I attribute it to the combination of silicone and a bit too much tension.

There ya have it. LMK

Thanks and good luck.



p.s. If you have a validated, multi meter verified build value, I'd be happy to validate it and publish. Let me know anytime. Building the street map here for those that aren't up to the math (yet).

yes, wind count.

i did some recoiling yesterday for the first time in weeks. i am either out of practice, or 30 g is a little more difficult to deal with than 28 g !
I do see your point in the merits of 29 g, after enjoying the quick fire aspect of the 30. the placement was also easier because there was more room on either side of the coil. 12 wraps of 28 is a tight fit in the pt ! i think 29 would be the perfect gauge for the pt, as you suggested a few weeks back. I already put in an order. just as i was contemplating retiring the pt's too

p.s. i can't validate my results since i don't have an ohm meter, and measure on my svd or vamo. that should be my next purchase.

p.p.s your thoughts in leg power loss, and indeed if builds of closer to 2 ohms are more efficient for the pt than those closer to 1 ohm ?

 

[brookj1986]

Brook you're gonna be famous with that shot! Google pic's high note. Tag it pin vise contact micro coil.

Way to go!

they're starting to get better! I think this is one of the better contact coils I've made. Still not up to my ideal standards (I still see imperfections in it when zoomed in).

Anyway between this and that other protank coil thread, I've learned a ridiculous amount. Much thanks!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[xCJack]

Does anyone sell protank micro coils? I'll buy them, because learning how to build them myself seems daunting.

 

[Mazinny]

trying to upload picture ... 30g tension wind on old beat-up 1/16 screw driver !

ok, seems i need to zoom in more !

 

[MacTechVpr]

Does anyone sell protank micro coils? I'll buy them, because learning how to build them myself seems daunting.

Good question Jack! You have to wonder why. I often ask folks — What piece of modern electronics would you spend a dime on that had a hand-wound coil of any kind? This technology is as old as the hills.

At present I'm only aware of one vendor, SnG Vapor, that is producing a modern coil approaching the capabilities of the tank technology. Primarily because they use Nextel XC-132 to produce Kanger coils of various res. values. It's a close wick wind from my evaluation but still a conventional hand-wind on space age wicking. Even a non-tensioned jig wound coil would could upon that (particularly from a potential hot-spot and short perspective. This would enhance the flavor and performance potential of a good product.

I don't count US vape retailers copying Chinese children's hand winds. That's not a product we should pay $3/per, sorry. And it's a shame any of us if we do, imo. Bad enough the Chinese make 'em. I've written here what a proper electrical wind is. And it has not been refuted.

You're right it is about the symmetry and geometry as well as that 30-second wind. It really isn't that difficult. But getting the mechanics right does take a little bit of practice. As I noted earlier, silicone grommets are giving me trouble. I make dozens of these coils a week just to keep up with testing. It's a lot more of a hassle for me when things don't go as expected and you've done them hundreds of times before. So I can see where it would be daunting. But a lot of what we discuss too here is the unexpected. Not the typical. So no worries. Just try it. The basic install is just that. The experimental and pushing the envelope comes later. That occurs here as well as the cloud builder threads.

But there's gonna be folks that won't and don't have the time or inclination to build for the everyday carry. As rebuilding becomes more popular I suppose more and more will be offering products and they will be of incredibly varying performance. I think you Jack and the rest of the marketplace will determine whether you end up with something better or worse than what we're building here. If you rebuild now, you will know which. And…what it's worth when it comes.

Right now were guinea pigs.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

yes, wind count.

i did some recoiling yesterday for the first time in weeks. i am either out of practice, or 30 g is a little more difficult to deal with than 28 g !
I do see your point in the merits of 29 g, after enjoying the quick fire aspect of the 30. the placement was also easier because there was more room on either side of the coil. 12 wraps of 28 is a tight fit in the pt ! i think 29 would be the perfect gauge for the pt, as you suggested a few weeks back. I already put in an order. just as i was contemplating retiring the pt's too

p.s. i can't validate my results since i don't have an ohm meter, and measure on my svd or vamo. that should be my next purchase.

p.p.s your thoughts in leg power loss, and indeed if builds of closer to 2 ohms are more efficient for the pt than those closer to 1 ohm ?

More surface area…but not more than required for the wick cross-section, or it's overkill. They're heating air. More power…but not more than the wick media can handle in terms of flow. I don't see people getting that by observation or otherwise. Then there's always the electric fence.

AWG 29 is G O O D for the KPT…and 30's not far off and better for some juice, etc. situations…given the same resistance target. You will be very pleased with it. And for duals in drips I often use it in more delicate situations like the Helios. And I approximate a compromise between both by dropping or adding a turn count on t/p 31/32g. These, tensioned, are extraordinarily cool.

Good to have a carto-meter. Keeps ya honest. Better to have a multi-meter alongside it and periodically test the coils as they come out. That unravels assumptions. I'm still juggling the wild assortment of math calc methods I use to compute wire lengths along with the spreadsheets, mini-app's and online resources. I still haven't found a good one for what I do. I posted one earlier that was close to computations I derive by hand. The deficit with most is that you can't input the res/ft-m that applies to your lot or supply of wire. It can make a big diff.

Now, which 29 wind result where you referring to Mazz. PM me would ya? I don't have time this p.m. to recheck too many…I'm workin' out a few builds and a leaky genny. Had to postpone a B&M visit I really wanted to make as I fell behind on my own stuff this weekend.

Thanks for all the data.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac, the resistance on the 29 g 1.5875 (1/16), seem a little high. The rest of your confirmed builds are a lot closer to the theoretical ( i used 16mm for the total length of legs ). They are also a lot higher than the resistance Bills Magic is getting with the same build, even if his builds have shorter legs.

btw when i put in numbers in the calculator i linked to a little above, there is something called "leg power loss" in percentage. The lower ohm builds, for the kanger, have higher percentage losses, and the calculator suggest i change the parameters for more efficiency. Do you have any idea why that is ?

i will put the link again, so its easier for you to check if you are so inclined. thanks !

Steam Engine | free calculators for your vaping endeavors

Getting back to this for a quick break.

It's kinda neat that you pattern your builds on data. Cheaper than a meter but sadly not a substitute.

If the energy is not emitted in the solenoid it is lost in the leads. The shorter the lead the greater the energy being dissipated in the helix itself. THAT is why a tight (not loose) symmetrical build is proper electrically speaking. Excess wire is waste for a resistance element. Recommendation: Redesign, rebuild. What I said. Inefficiency is loss.

Now tension winding builds efficiency first by shortening the overall length of wire, in also lessening the length by putting the turns as close together and tight to the i.d. as possible and ultimately by extending tension moderately to the termination set. How does it do that? By limiting the length of wire. But there is also an inherent efficiency that's invoked by the absolute contact (closeness) which provokes the effect and optimally efficient uniform distribution of energy across the coil element.

And Bill's results introduce orders of magnitude of more tension that the basic hand wind I proposed. More than shorter lead length would seem to indicate (we can't know w/o an overall wire length). Maybe Bill could measure some. I would venture he's mostly below the theoretical for most winds and substantially so. That is going to produce a change in resistance. If Bill could gauge the strain (or stretch) applied by a standard metric, the resulting res. other parameters and record such to table, his results would be pertinent and could be duplicated.

Now steam engine is good but it certainly doesn't take tension (stretch) into the calculation. So the product will not accurately predict your tensioned coil results. Yours will be lower. Accordingly unless you have a guide as to what the probable low is, you won't know if you're shorting. That's why I try not to exaggerate tension below what is probably attainable by the typical user, for purposes of the tables published here (and why I don't post all my results). Otherwise, my data is useless for a basic wind. I'm now starting to post standard micro coil winds for comparison. Generally I try to produce just a little more than enough tension to reach adhesion, consistently applied. Usually that means a reduction of about .05Ω. Any difference >.1Ω is suspect by me. More typical is .05-.07Ω diff in my experience. I could use help building these tables (by those that can meter and cross-check. I think this data could help a lot of folks. And the info is adaptable to other clearo's (or atty's) if one knows the lead lengths, say for a rebuildable b/c Aspire.

Hope this helps clarify the clearo.

Good luck.



p.s. My tables are not extensive but I do have quite a few entries, old and new. I don't have time to go through all the 29g results. I'd appreciate your pointer to the specific wind you think went awry. Copy and pm me the exact entry please.

 

[Mazinny]

Getting back to this for a quick break.

It's kinda neat that you pattern your builds on data. Cheaper than a meter but sadly not a substitute.

If the energy is not emitted in the solenoid it is lost in the leads. The shorter the lead the greater the energy being dissipated in the helix itself. THAT is why a tight (not loose) symmetrical build is proper electrically speaking. Excess wire is waste for a resistance element. Recommendation: Redesign, rebuild. What I said. Inefficiency is loss.

Now tension winding builds efficiency first by shortening the overall length of wire, in also lessening the length by putting the turns as close together and tight to the i.d. as possible and ultimately by extending tension moderately to the termination set. How does it do that? By limiting the length of wire. But there is also an inherent efficiency that's invoked by the absolute contact (closeness) which provokes the effect and optimally efficient uniform distribution of energy across the coil element.

And Bill's results introduce orders of magnitude of more tension that the basic hand wind I proposed. More than shorter lead length would seem to indicate (we can't know w/o an overall wire length). Maybe Bill could measure some. I would venture he's mostly below the theoretical for most winds and substantially so. That is going to produce a change in resistance. If Bill could gauge the strain (or stretch) applied by a standard metric, the resulting res. other parameters and record such to table, his results would be pertinent and could be duplicated.

Now steam engine is good but it certainly doesn't take tension (stretch) into the calculation. So the product will not accurately predict your tensioned coil results. Yours will be lower. Accordingly unless you have a guide as to what the probable low is, you won't know if you're shorting. That's why I try not to exaggerate tension below what is probably attainable by the typical user, for purposes of the tables published here (and why I don't post all my results). Otherwise, my data is useless for a basic wind. I'm now starting to post standard micro coil winds for comparison. Generally I try to produce just a little more than enough tension to reach adhesion, consistently applied. Usually that means a reduction of about .05Ω. Any difference >.1Ω is suspect by me. More typical is .05-.07Ω diff in my experience. I could use help building these tables (by those that can meter and cross-check. I think this data could help a lot of folks. And the info is adaptable to other clearo's (or atty's) if one knows the lead lengths, say for a rebuildable b/c Aspire.

Hope this helps clarify the clearo.

Good luck.



p.s. My tables are not extensive but I do have quite a few entries, old and new. I don't have time to go through all the 29g results. I'd appreciate your pointer to the specific wind you think went awry. Copy and pm me the exact entry please.

I am having trouble with steam engine on my phone, but I believe the one that seemed really high to me was the 1.75 mm which resulted in 1.92 ohms. I put in 16 mm as total leg length and I believe steam engine came up with 12/11. I only checked because your number of winds seemed too low for the resultant resistance. I will check all your 29's tonight when I get home to figure which one caught my attention. I might have made a mistake, mind.
I understand the efficiency argument re legs, but what I still don't get is that the leg lengths are constant regardless of the resistance. Why is a 2ohm coil more efficient than a 1ohm coil, with everything else being constant ?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[M_DuBb716]

Good info guys..

I'm thinking of trying my first 32g microcoil tonight.. I only have my 1/16in (1.5875mm) drill bit to wrap on, so I'm thinking maybe 7 wraps of 32g on that bit. Aiming for around 2.0ohms.

But I messed up my finger and have a big blood blister on it right now so not sure if I'll be able too. I'll let you guys know how it goes

 

[MacTechVpr]

I understand the efficiency argument re legs, but what I still don't get is that the leg lengths are constant regardless of the resistance. Why is a 2ohm coil more efficient than a 1ohm coil, with everything else being constant ?

By my reasoning...In a KPT having a fixed leg length, the amount of loss attributable to lead wire length is a constant relative to coil size. As the wire length overall (for the solenoid) increases, and resistance accordingly, the loss proportionately attributable to the leads diminishes, i.e. as a percent.

The bigger the coil, the higher the resistance.

The bigger the coil, the less that the resistance loss (unapplied energy) of the leads is, as a factor.

More work being done by more wire, less loss energy from leads not contributing to the work relatively.

And percent of energy being put directly to work vs. other is the measure of efficiency in a vaporizing element.

I know, I had to think about it. :LOL:

Good luck.



p.s. We can't make it more efficient (create more vapor) by making the legs shorter, like a dripper. But hey, at least we got the Aero bases, right?

p.s.s. I think I kind'a know your next question…How is tensioned…?

 

[Mazinny]

By my reasoning...In a KPT having a fixed leg length, the amount of loss attributable to lead wire length is a constant relative to coil size. As the wire length overall (for the solenoid) increases, and resistance accordingly, the loss proportionately attributable to the leads diminishes, i.e. as a percent.

The bigger the coil, the higher the resistance.

The bigger the coil, the less that the resistance loss (unapplied energy) of the leads is, as a factor.

More work being done by more wire, less loss energy from leads not contributing to the work relatively.

And percent of energy being put directly to work vs. other is the measure of efficiency in a vaporizing element.

I know, I had to think about it. :LOL:

Good luck.



p.s. We can't make it more efficient (create more vapor) by making the legs shorter, like a dripper. But hey, at least we got the Aero bases, right?

p.s.s. I think I kind'a know your next question…How is tensioned…?

It's times like this when I feel old ! It's fricking depressing ! If I were 15, I would have understood it instictively

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[MacTechVpr]

It's times like this when I feel old ! It's fricking depressing ! If I were 15, I would have understood it instictively

Maz, don't feel bad. I walk around repeating people's name I know…not to embarrass myself. Some days, I swear, I have to repeat my own.



I'm working out this resistance calculator thing. I just have not found one that matches the real world results I'm seeing. I do the math manually which is tedious and I get close to what I'm measuring. But there ought to be a tool. I still have to look at your 29g post. I may have made a transcription error from the device the last time comparing to tables or from the table itself. If I see the discrepancy, I'll have to rebuild. Oh boy! What a surprise. What's one more.

Good luck maz. Thanks for all the comebacks. Ya kept me busy but I got most of my builds done between slippery grommets.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I am having trouble with steam engine on my phone, but I believe the one that seemed really high to me was the 1.75 mm which resulted in 1.92 ohms. I put in 16 mm as total leg length and I believe steam engine came up with 12/11. I only checked because your number of winds seemed too low for the resultant resistance. I will check all your 29's tonight when I get home to figure which one caught my attention. I might have made a mistake, mind.
I understand the efficiency argument re legs, but what I still don't get is that the leg lengths are constant regardless of the resistance. Why is a 2ohm coil more efficient than a 1ohm coil, with everything else being constant ?

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Steam Engine's not bad. I'll have to revisit it and work it against my formulas.

You're absolutely right about…

29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √

I picked up a copy/paste and butchered it at some point. Going to have to revalidate. I've got more entries many conflicting than ever for 29g…because of the mix of silicone and rubber grommets. I only started running 29 in recent months. It's become my favorite wire for just about everything with t/p 31/32 following close behind. But where Kanger's are concerned it's my personal use fav. Least used for testing but like I said more entries awaiting revalidation because of grommet slip issues. Two issues involved; the first is coil skew, the other hangers (developing in operation). Both attributable to the same thing essentially, the slippery grommet and the torque applied when reinstalling the coil during refill/cleanups or reinstalling the tank. While this would happen on the rare occasion with the old grommets it's a persistent problem with the silicone. I hesitate to think how people are dealing with this. No wonder so many folks are complaining how bad the ProTank is.

Now the interesting thing is once the grommet breaks in, it's solid. It actually start to look like an old grommet and behave like one, including more solid resistance.

Last few days I've been plauged by recurring hangers in operation. All silicone grommet tanks. All exhibiting hangers after the first top-off. The grommet compressed to a sliver (yes the silicone) and a nice little surprise sticking out as a result. Not fun, and not funny. Been testing several versions of aftermarket Kanger coil heads and the silicone grommets are even more slippery than the Kanger's I think the same may apply to the replacement silicone from LI. I will have to test more.

I don't know why folks thought this would be a good thing and the total solution for the ProTank.

Back at ya later. Goodnight and good luck.



p.s. I've tagged the entry pending revalidation in red. Thanks!