Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[bover907]

Question....

What is the perfect size drill bit to fit exactly and securely into the notch on the head? The only two sizes available to me in my drill bit set were 1/16"(too small) and 5/64"(too big). I wrapped it on a 5/64, then seated it with a 1/16, but it's cumbersome and hard not to deform the ends of the coil using a bit smaller than the i.d. of the coil.

Should I get 1.8mm or 2mm or what?

Edit: Also, in a couple different threads, I asked how long cotton wicks last? In my EVOD's I got 3 tanks of juice before I noticed a flavor change (and darkening) with a sweet juice like Custard's Last Stand, by nickoticket. I've actually cleaned and dry burned that coil three times now, and it still comes clean, and measures exactly the resistance as when I built it.

On a much clearer Berry Pomegranate juice from my local B&M, I've lost count how many tanks went thru that wick. I think like 5. Weird how different some juices can behave.

 

[brookj1986]

Question....

What is the perfect size drill bit to fit exactly and securely into the notch on the head? The only two sizes available to me in my drill bit set were 1/16"(too small) and 5/64"(too big). I wrapped it on a 5/64, then seated it with a 1/16, but it's cumbersome and hard not to deform the ends of the coil using a bit smaller than the i.d. of the coil.

Should I get 1.8mm or 2mm or what?

Edit: Also, in a couple different threads, I asked how long cotton wicks last? In my EVOD's I got 3 tanks of juice before I noticed a flavor change (and darkening) with a sweet juice like Custard's Last Stand, by nickoticket. I've actually cleaned and dry burned that coil three times now, and it still comes clean, and measures exactly the resistance as when I built it.

On a much clearer Berry Pomegranate juice from my local B&M, I've lost count how many tanks went thru that wick. I think like 5. Weird how different some juices can behave.

1.8 mm fits perfectly. If you don't want metric measurement, there's a number 50 drill bit which is .07 inches which is .012 mm smaller than 1.8mm. Anything past 1.8, you'll likely need to file down the notches.


Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[bover907]

Thanks! I'll have to go to the hardware store and get one or two tomorrow!

 

[LazyBulldogge]

So, after a day of tinkering with finding the right amount of cotton for 30 AWG coils (and especially finding out what too little cotton will do, yuk), including inspecting the coils and dryburning them, I'm a bit curious as to what voltage you're running your microcoils at?
I'm wrapping my coils at just about 2 Ohms and vape them at 4 Volts, but the 30 AWG coils seem to gunk up a bit more/easier, than the 2 Ohm coils I wrapped using 32 AWG, so wondering if I'm doing something wrong and/or running them too high?
(Yes, I know it varies, depending on what juice you use etc., but still, there must be some sort of rule of thumb)

 

[f1vefour]

4v @ 2 ohms is 8 watts, this is a good range to be in...maybe bump it up to 4.2 on the thicker wire and take shorter pulls.

 

[Taowulf]

My few first attempts were in the 2.2-2.4Ω range...so I wrapped few less times...

Oops, too low.

 

[bover907]

I'd say stay between 2.0 to 2.5Ω range. Probaly around 2.2, especially if you are on a fixed voltage device where 3.7v @ 2.2Ω will give you the best wattage for vapor production, etc. If you don't have some sort of VV or VW mod, I'd just shoot for around the 2.2Ω range. anything between 2.2 and 2.5 would be good.

I get GREAT vapor with a 2.57Ω micro coil, cotton wicked, with a 3.7v regulated battery. Obviously, there's much more options with a mod, but if you're using a standard eGo or Evod battery, I'd just go with 2.2 to 2.5 ohms.

 

[bover907]

I should add that I'm extremely intoxicated, (just tried Miller Fortune for the 1st time... 6.9%abv) when typing the above, so I hope what I typed made sense, if you know what I mean.

 

[Taowulf]

No fixed voltage here. VV and VV/VW as well.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (addendum in blue) for your vaping pleasure…

32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.35Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √ #601 Christopherja
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., m.c. =1.93Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. =1.83 Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.68 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.95Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.73Ω√
29AWG, 9/8 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 12/11, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.3Ω #241 vdaedalus
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω

Some standard verification m.c. winds are included for perspective. All results were three times hit, verified on separate cargo-meters and variable in operation. Wire spec is Temco, Kanthal A-1. Nominal lead lengths typically noted on avg. are ~7mm(Neg)+9.25mm(Pos).

m.c.= conventional (hand or mechanically wound) contact coil
t.m.c. = tensioned contact coil

Your submissions would be helpful and appreciated. Please post or pm and I will validate (replicate) for this table as soon as possible.

(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications and its important to make the destination.)

Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).

Good luck all.

 

[Garemlin]

So since I just bought a spool of P&C yarn I am gonna give it a go first. What is the best i.d. to use for wicking with that yarn???

And as far as using silica how much above the o.d. of the silica should you comfortably go.

Example: With 2mm silica the i.d. of the coil should be ????

 

[f1vefour]

With 2mm silica 1.6/1.7mm mandrel would be ideal since it doesn't really expand.

With 2mm cotton yarn you would be okay with a 1.7mm to 2mm mandrel.

 

[MacTechVpr]

So since I just bought a spool of P&C yarn I am gonna give it a go first. What is the best i.d. to use for wicking with that yarn???

And as far as using silica how much above the o.d. of the silica should you comfortably go.

Example: With 2mm silica the i.d. of the coil should be ????

I'd say what you really want to avoid Garemlin is having any turn or section of a wind heating air. Any lapses at all between coil and wick. Because it will go hot, effectively a short, reducing your efficiency and deteriorating with gunk along with the wick due to inadequate vaporization relative to saturation.

So you want to match the media as closely as possible to the coil i.d. and vice versa.

I posted a technique called the cellophane wrap (really plastic wrap, lol) that lets you compress 2 mm silica into .07" (1.778 mm) for example. I say that loosely, pun intended, because 2mm silica can be anything but that. All media except something like Nextel varies tremendously in size depending on manufacturer, even yarn winds. So you're going to have to measure your product and choose your coil size accordingly. That's the big elephant in the room where vaping is concerned — How the hell do we wick it? Well building a precision coil will help you get there because you fix the internal diameter you have to play with. And that is half the battle.

Good luck G.

 

[Garemlin]

With 2mm silica 1.6/1.7mm mandrel would be ideal since it doesn't really expand.

With 2mm cotton yarn you would be okay with a 1.7mm to 2mm mandrel.

Is 2mm around the outside diameter of the P&C yarn?

And that is a little confusing since from what I read you don't want a really snug fit. So putting a 2mm wick of silica in something smaller than 2mm and especially a wick of 2mm cotton since it expands sounds like a very snug fit.

Tap'd from my LG G2

 

[f1vefour]

I have no issues with a snug fit with yarn or silica.

The P&C yarn I have is four strand and is right at 2mm.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Is 2mm around the outside diameter of the P&C yarn?

And that is a little confusing since from what I read you don't want a really snug fit. So putting a 2mm wick of silica in something smaller than 2mm and especially a wick of 2mm cotton since it expands sounds like a very snug fit.

Tap'd from my LG G2

Agree with f1ve. Snug is good. An absolute contact with the coil surface. That doesn't mean choke it. And if you compress the media to insert it that doesn't mean that it stays that way. Synthethics do rebound. That said, if you bend media like Ekowool or Nextel which is braided and made up of rigid fibers you break it's back. Often why folks experience problems with poor draw having over tightened hand wound coils on synthetics. Easy to do. Hand winds are not consistent no matter how good you think you can eyeball it. Count on it. You have shorts. So it's ideal to be able to thread it into its own size rather than double it and pull it through. You'll experience far batter flow and so vaporization.

Once you insert media like hollow Eko you can insert something like a thin needle to plump it up. But it's seldom necessary unless you're threading into a diameter substantially smaller than the cross section of the media. Too small [coil] for the media and you will definitely choke it. In that sense G, you're right. It needs to be snug…but not too tight. Or it will constrict flow.

Good luck.

 

[Garemlin]

Agree with f1ve. Snug is good. An absolute contact with the coil surface. That doesn't mean choke it. And if you compress the media to insert it that doesn't mean that it stays that way. Synthethics do rebound. That said, if you bend media like Ekowool or Nextel which is braided and made up of rigid fibers you break it's back. Often why folks experience problems with poor draw having over tightened hand wound coils on synthetics. Easy to do. Hand winds are not consistent no matter how good you think you can eyeball it. Count on it. You have shorts. So it's ideal to be able to thread it into its own size rather than double it and pull it through. You'll experience far batter flow and so vaporization.

Once you insert media like hollow Eko you can insert something like a thin needle to plump it up. But it's seldom necessary unless you're threading into a diameter substantially smaller than the cross section of the media. Too small [coil] for the media and you will definitely choke it. In that sense G, you're right. It needs to be snug…but not too tight. Or it will constrict flow.

Good luck.

As always you are right there to make it all clear. LOL

Here is something I have been wondering. I have watched a few coil building videos. In a few of them they use a doubled over wick and clip the loop end. Is there any advantage to this??? So say instead of using one piece of 2mm wick use a 1mm piece doubled over. Or does it pretty much give the same results???

Also if I want to multipurpose my coils for a PTII and a KFL is 32ga Kanthal a good overall size to use??? I really don't want to build a bunch of different size coils. I want to find what works and build a surplus to have on hand for both uses.

 

[MacTechVpr]

As always you are right there to make it all clear. LOL

Here is something I have been wondering. I have watched a few coil building videos. In a few of them they use a doubled over wick and clip the loop end. Is there any advantage to this??? So say instead of using one piece of 2mm wick use a 1mm piece doubled over. Or does it pretty much give the same results???

Also if I want to multipurpose my coils for a PTII and a KFL is 32ga Kanthal a good overall size to use??? I really don't want to build a bunch of different size coils. I want to find what works and build a surplus to have on hand for both uses.

The short answer: I don't believe multiple wicks perform as efficiently. Cotton, ehh, maybe.

I personally don't like multiple wicks. Any gap in coil contact could be a point where more pigments from juice start to accumulate. It gets cooler there. Electrons have to go somewhere. Cotton density is not consistent, even in yarn although better. The rest of the coil gets hotter. You build up more junk if too hot anywhere. It's the beginning of a cycle towards the early demise of your build. Not saying that happens always. But that's my concern. On the other hand cotton is pretty pliable. It permeates and flows fairly well even with bends in it. If you snip it as you would for a short Protank wick it's fine. I think G, find the right coil diameter that works for you in getting the flavor/vapor combination you like for your particular juice/s. Try several kinds of media. You might be surprised what you end up liking.

That's not a tough question on wire size. AWG 29 is a much better cross device gauge as sturdier and good surface coverage being thinner than 28 and higher gauges. I hear this argument all the time about more coverage thicker gauges. It's only true if the media has sufficient deflection (give). Think about it. More turns give more coverage. And if you happen to settle on <2.0Ω on the Protank, then an easy choice as these build results demonstrate…

29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.72Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.63Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √

These easily cross over to alternative tank platforms whether run on a mech or variable. With a couple less turns some nice vapor results on a mech. Add a few and you're in a flavorful comfort zone for the KPT. Yep, AWG 29 is versatile.

Good luck G.

 

[f1vefour]

I haven't had any wicking issues with cotton yarn, it doesn't taste good as raw cotton (bowls, ball, batting..etc) for some reason to me...a bit harder than raw to get through the coil also.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I haven't had any wicking issues with cotton yarn, it doesn't taste good as raw cotton (bowls, ball, batting..etc) for some reason to me...a bit harder than raw to get through the coil also.

True that, had the same issue with cotton wick. Ran cotton tests early on after I quit. One of the first media I tested before I really went formal on my study. Couldn't get the density right. Wasn't wrapping on consistent sizes experimenting with blunt needles and different screw winds. Hadn't figured out the physical mechanics of all the shorting and their relationships to the design/s. Nice to use a pin vise now and order the precise drill blank size I need for a special wick. I use cotton extensively but not in clearo's. Too much of a hassle for my taste. And the technical demands are constraining. The exception for me were certain brands of surgical gauze. Really exceptional taste, at least to me. But got awfully dirty fast which killed it for practical purposes. I'm still planning to return to it but dang f1ve I just don't' have the time. More tanks and wick sources pop out of the woodwork every day and it keeps me busy.

Next on the list may be seeking optimal builds on the new Kanger Aero Mega and Mini. I may need to jump on that. The more these fools try to flood the market and hide their sh!te like Aspire, the more they motivate many of us to tear it down and rebuild it. Like the Greek said, I don't know how they expect their vendors here stateside to keep up [or survive]. We're all forever digging in our pocket. But they do fear us, the consumer, rebuilding their stuff. That seems clear to me. And there's good reason they should. But the fools just keep encouraging us not to leave well enough alone. They don't, but keep trying to lock more and more new vapers into the pre-pack mode with the promise of a bigger, shinier and better next time (many keep falling for it, so far). It is an ill wind that blows and it just keeps driving prices higher (and their margins) edging out buying and vaping alternatives (Bastiat). Right now their central planning and staged obsolescence is missing the mark because their one-size-fits-all mentality is just driving us bonkers over here. With every improvement comes ever more integral failed complexity (even more hand winding? plus non-resistance leads? high-tech? LOL please, spare us). And every one an opportunity for us to seize upon their inefficiencies to show others how to rebuild and vape better (and with better gear). To take control over our own vaping economics. They're so blind though they never see it.

In the past three days I've done over two dozen test builds. The good news is that existing Protank heads seem to work on both the new Kangers. Perhaps even better than factory. That does not surprise me. They certainly will with a t.m.c. rather than the redundantly ridiculous tethered winds I've seen.

I thank The Empire every day for creating such an excellent classroom as an interminably changing, absurd and pricier Protank or Nautilus.

So cotton will have to wait for a quieter moment. LOL

Excuse me all for the brief interjection of some economics in our discussions. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Good luck.