Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Ok Mac. Found a seller on ebay with good prices on silica and kanthal. How much should I start with. As in length of both. I can get 10' of 2mm silica and 25' of 30g kanthal for $5. Should that last me a while????

That'll be just fine. Sean's nice people and ships fast.

Silica's a good start. It's cheap. Specially if you get a dripper. Don't put aside or give up cotton. Like I said, you may be surprised. Some juices taste best with certain wick/coil combo's. Sorta like do you prefer your dolphin blackened on the pan or smoked on the grill. Part of the fun really, exploring that.

Good luck.

:)
 

brookj1986

Super Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2013
1,842
4,071
Chicago, IL
Nice to use a pin vise now and order the precise drill blank size I need for a special wick. I use cotton extensively but not in clearo's. Too much of a hassle for my taste. And the technical demands are constraining. The exception for me were certain brands of surgical gauze. Really exceptional taste, at least to me. But got awfully dirty fast which killed it for practical purposes.

Hey Mac, if you find good priced drill blanks, please let me know. I've been searching with no avail. Found one site but gave me $10+ for shipping.

Please let me know :)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
 

Garemlin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 15, 2013
2,445
2,547
56
In the Mist
That'll be just fine. Sean's nice people and ships fast.

Silica's a good start. It's cheap. Specially if you get a dripper. Don't put aside or give up cotton. Like I said, you may be surprised. Some juices taste best with certain wick/coil combo's. Sorta like do you prefer your dolphin blackened on the pan or smoked on the grill. Part of the fun really, exploring that.

Good luck.

:)

Yeah I already have my small spool of P&C so my options will be open. So you think those amounts will last a while, or should I go with more???/
 

brookj1986

Super Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2013
1,842
4,071
Chicago, IL
Yeah I already have my small spool of P&C so my options will be open. So you think those amounts will last a while, or should I go with more???/

You boil your p&c? You go with the natural color -- not the white? Been thinking about trying p&c for awhile, but have been having pretty solid results with cotton balls.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
 

f1vefour

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Dec 3, 2013
6,212
13,536
Emerald Coast
I was going to grab the new Mega AeroTank but decided to get a kayfun instead, I have grown weary of clearomizers.

They still have a place in my collection when I travel but otherwise they will be gathering dust.

I still have a couple of coiling ideas to test before giving up, I have this notion of a nano coil wrapped in gauze that I think will be the ultimate performer. I did a quick test build (of the coil) in a smok Dripper rda and it is amazing, 32g kanthal wrapped 15 times around a 1mm needle @ 2.5 ohms.

2quq2bc.jpg
 
Last edited:

Garemlin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 15, 2013
2,445
2,547
56
In the Mist
Hey Mac, if you find good priced drill blanks, please let me know. I've been searching with no avail. Found one site but gave me $10+ for shipping.

Please let me know :)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Try Harbor Freight. I don't think they have drill blanks, but they are sure to have something to use to wrap. And cheap too.
 

Garemlin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 15, 2013
2,445
2,547
56
In the Mist
You boil your p&c? You go with the natural color -- not the white? Been thinking about trying p&c for awhile, but have been having pretty solid results with cotton balls.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

I haven't started building yet. Still gotta get my Kanthal and also getting some silica. But all I bought was a small spool of white P&C from Wally World for $1.50. Have no intention to boil. I figure any impurities will get burned off with the first few fires. I don't have the patience to experiment with shredding cotton balls.
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Hey Mac, if you find good priced drill blanks, please let me know. I've been searching with no avail. Found one site but gave me $10+ for shipping.

Please let me know :)

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

LOL, brook I'm just too quick on the trigger. I just got dinged, beat for 23$ for "ground" freight by GI for a handful of blanks. My last order was many moons ago and a got a great batch for pennies from a competitor. I keep all my history forever practically and I'll just have to find it again anyway. My projects are expanding and I've got more people coming online to help. Plus I like to use blanks as hand outs. Publish here when I do.

But truth is lookin' through the bookmarks I kept, the above firm (initials GI) is prominent in the listings and has about as comprehensive an assortment as I've found. Watch their shipping charges carefully!

However, a suggestion, a little pricey. But best protection against a wandering Joe on the press as I'm always walking into B&M's and having things drilled out by others. Sometimes I'm not thinkin' and the stuff's not cheap. They use ordinary h.s. drill bits in one-drill places and usually they're chewed up from drillin' out every D!ck and Jane's IGO. I've taken to walkin' around with a set of precision Dremel bits in my mod bag. They're rated 10k+ rmp and slice through s.s. like a good butcher knife. Brass is like butter. I have a pair of these kits and use the bits in a pin vise too to build duals in tandem so the diameters match precisely. The fresh set's unused for drilling, reserved so a clean bit's ready for the next great mod…

Dremel 628-01 7 Piece Drill Bit Set - Power Rotary Tool Accessories - Amazon.com

So drill bits or drill blanks, like 'em both…

I'm always on the hunt for good pin vises. Especially with a good rubber or composite grip. Like this one…

Tamiya America Item #74112 | Fine Pin Vise D-R (0.1-3.2mm)

Not too, too expensive but hard to find in stock anywhere. Any feedback on the quality or sourcing, give a shout anyone.

Good luck all.

:)
 
Last edited:

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Yeah I already have my small spool of P&C so my options will be open. So you think those amounts will last a while, or should I go with more???/

I think you're good. Take your time. Try a few builds on the choices you have now for comparison so you start to appreciate the performance and taste results. Heck you may even enjoy the rebuilding part even more than the actual results. Or maybe like me enjoy every aspect. Then you're really in trouble G! LOL

Good luck.

:)
 

Garemlin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 15, 2013
2,445
2,547
56
In the Mist
I think you're good. Take your time. Try a few builds on the choices you have now for comparison so you start to appreciate the performance and taste results. Heck you may even enjoy the rebuilding part even more than the actual results. Or maybe like me enjoy every aspect. Then you're really in trouble G! LOL

Good luck.

:)


Order already placed. Off to Harbor Freight to grab an inexpensive butane torch tomorrow. I'll start with the PTII then figure out which KFL clone I wanna order. Still leaning towards one of the ones on Slowtech unless I can find an inexpensive one stateside.
 

LazyBulldogge

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 13, 2013
519
362
42
Kalundborg, Denmark
Alright, I think I've pretty much got the wrapping part down now, where I'm still struggling though, is the cotton part.
Soooo inconsistent, one wick will suffocate and give dry hits, the next one will flood to hell, leaving me with juice in my mouth.

So what's a good wicking material other than cotton?
Walmart yarn is out of the question, as I'm in Europe.
Don't know if that Nextel stuff is available in Europe.

Silica and Ekowool is what I'm looking at, for best availability - but what size should I be looking at, for a 1.5 mm coil? That's just a tad smaller, than your 1/16".
Also, by switching to silica or Ekowool, will that require "flavor wicks"/stuffers, to avoid flooding the coil?

Any input is appreciated, as I'm just about to return to conventional coils at the moment :p
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Alright, I think I've pretty much got the wrapping part down now, where I'm still struggling though, is the cotton part.
Soooo inconsistent, one wick will suffocate and give dry hits, the next one will flood to hell, leaving me with juice in my mouth.

I agree. Some people get it just right for their vape easily. And I suspect they were relatively light smokers. Really aggressive smokers, chainers, etc. have to have wick materials with a lot more variability than you can select into a sliver of cotton.

So what's a good wicking material other than cotton?
Walmart yarn is out of the question, as I'm in Europe.
Don't know if that Nextel stuff is available in Europe.

Silica and Ekowool is what I'm looking at, for best availability - but what size should I be looking at, for a 1.5 mm coil? That's just a tad smaller, than your 1/16".
Also, by switching to silica or Ekowool, will that require "flavor wicks"/stuffers, to avoid flooding the coil?

Any input is appreciated, as I'm just about to return to conventional coils at the moment :p

And that brings me to the coil. Can't be a sliver. Cotton or otherwise. Unless your vape is very consistent it's hard to nail down. You need to provide enough wick material (flow potential) for the likely vape. In most cases, that means more wick to accommodate tighter draws, longer pulls and the repeated flow demands of chaining.

No, you're not going to get Nextel over there unfortunately. But German and Russian tight "high quality" (high temperature) Eko braids work well in the KPT. As well as the same configuration in silica braid. Silica is ok but will have to be replaced more frequently. It's merely adequate.

A 1.5mm dia should suffice. However, the cross-section of the wick varies considerably from source of supply. You basically need to find a good source and make sure to build a coil that closest matches that particular media. You definitely want to stay in the slot, not bigger until, when? Until you can make sure it's not the media causing a problem. If for example the wick is not good you need to know for sure it's the wick. If you're still contending with shorting, geometry problems, lack of adhesion, etc. it's really very, very hard to evaluate the differences in wicking material. A good tight coil is the main tool you need in your arsenal.

So LB I'd say try to get a cheap pin vise or screw driver set that contains 1.6, 1.7 and maybe 1.75 and/or 1.8mm. The cross section of 1.5 Eko is usually significantly bigger but nominally around 1.7mm in circumference. Silica can be even thicker. You don't want to compress either too much but if you've been reading above you may know that you can wrap and insert it compressed in plastic wrap to get it into smaller diameter coils. So measure the wick cross section and select a size that best fits. Not enough flow resulting (too many dry hits), you're going to need a bit more wick. Just enough, great. Too often flooding, reduce the coil size slightly. Always make sure you've got enough flavor wick to otherwise prevent excess penetration of fluid beyond the wick itself.

Finally, with some juices that tend to then when really warm I've started to use flavor wicks as in this photo…


296858d1390192718-protank-microcoil-discussion-img_0675a.jpg



The juice channel wicks are often enough to stem the loss of vacuum pressure as the tank empties and gets warm. This deters juice from bypassing the flange into the threads of the 510 connection and the terminal itself if severe.

Once you get to the point of a stable vape in general, say with 1.7mm. Then…when you have the essentials of coil construction and termination down, it's possible to experiment with techniques to install larger wick sizes beyond the slot width and you won't be hitting your head against the wall trying to figure out where problems are coming from.

THAT IS WHY I SO STRONGLY ADVISE FOLKS TO STICK TO THE BASIC COIL PROFILE. NOBODY WANTS TO BE DESPERATE FOR A VAPE AND FIND THEMSELVES UNABLE TO GET IT.

If you perfect your base wind/coil/wick combination, you can always get there in a pinch. And settling for a standard wind that we know electrically is prone to problems is just not a solution. It's just replacing one set of issues with a host of others.

Trust me, been there, suffered that. And that's why I'm here. Help you folks not repeat my errors.

I hope this will give you at least a little sense of direction as to what to try. All these methods have been successful for me at one point or another. Some absolutely necessary in combination.

I should add that the techniques you're refining here LB translate well to other devices. These will help. And applying them elsewhere in turn will reveal approaches that will yield results on the clearo's. An example of this would be refining cotton on a good tensioned m.c. for a dripper…


304346d1392042192-micro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-img_0712a.jpg



That would help your Protank efforts. So you only have a good vape ahead of you if you stick to it.

Good luck LB.

:)
 

LazyBulldogge

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 13, 2013
519
362
42
Kalundborg, Denmark
Thanks a lot Mac, always a treat reading your posts and suggestions, I'll be looking into getting some Ekowool I think - I'm guessing it should also last longer than cotton, correct? 'Cause that's another, although small, issue I have with cotton. I'm an iPhone user. A "set and forget" guy. I like to keep it pretty simple.
I don't mind a learning curve, I don't mind trying out new things, but I need my setups to be stable and not having to tinker with them twice a day :p

Edit: Local shop's got 1mm and 2mm Ekowool (the genuine Ekowool, certified, and I'm guessing hollow), so I'm gonna grab a bit of each and see how it goes. Would be killer if I could get a microcoil setup going, where I don't have to touch it for a week, as that's how I had it running with conventional coils. At least that's what I'm aiming for.
I also did a quick test run with a doubled piece of 1mm silica for wick and it actually worked too, but that would require some flavor wicks in order not to flood, I'm sure.
 
Last edited:

Garemlin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 15, 2013
2,445
2,547
56
In the Mist
Finally, with some juices that tend to then when really warm I've started to use flavor wicks as in this photo…


296858d1390192718-protank-microcoil-discussion-img_0675a.jpg



The juice channel wicks are often enough to stem the loss of vacuum pressure as the tank empties and gets warm. This deters juice from bypassing the flange into the threads of the 510 connection and the terminal itself if severe.


:)


That's pretty cool. What RBA is that with a channel that allows that kind of set-up???
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Thanks a lot Mac, always a treat reading your posts and suggestions, I'll be looking into getting some Ekowool I think - I'm guessing it should also last longer than cotton, correct? 'Cause that's another, although small, issue I have with cotton. I'm an iPhone user. A "set and forget" guy. I like to keep it pretty simple.
I don't mind a learning curve, I don't mind trying out new things, but I need my setups to be stable and not having to tinker with them twice a day :p

Edit: Local shop's got 1mm and 2mm Ekowool (the genuine Ekowool, certified, and I'm guessing hollow), so I'm gonna grab a bit of each and see how it goes. Would be killer if I could get a microcoil setup going, where I don't have to touch it for a week, as that's how I had it running with conventional coils. At least that's what I'm aiming for.
I also did a quick test run with a doubled piece of 1mm silica for wick and it actually worked too, but that would require some flavor wicks in order not to flood, I'm sure.

First, 1mm silica falls apart to easily in my experience. I'd try to find "high quality" (high temp silica) min 1.5 to 1.8 mm and try to thread it into whatever dia you can compress it into. Use similar, or strands from it, on top. I've yet to find a 1mm that doesn't quickly degrade. You may have a different product there.

Eko will last much longer than cotton, many days with a proper tensioned microcoil perhaps as long as 10-14 days. I'm flavor sensitive and a hard vaper so I see performance thats much less from Eko. Still it will be good for at least one wash and dry burn, perhaps two. So that's not too bad. Silica doesn't quite make it there as it stops flowing as well after the first dunk after such a long interval. I've tried shorter runs, then washes, more frequent washes. It may help stretch out the coil. But at some point the flow will not be what you expected. It's time to extract the wick, pulse burn the coil if it's still intact and re-wick.

Hang in LB. You're on the right track.

:)
 

kachuge

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 18, 2014
317
185
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
It seems my best microcoils are at about 1.8-2.2Ω.. Any higher in resistance and they heat up too slow and don't give me that thick, flavorful vapor.. Any lower than 1.8Ω and I get lots of vapor, but it seems the flavor isn't as good; like it gets too hot if I go lower than 1.8.. This is all with 30gauge Kanthal and cotton-wick!
:)

totally agreed........... good parameters the 1.8 to 2.2...... it's me all over.......
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,725
14,412
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Order already placed. Off to Harbor Freight to grab an inexpensive butane torch tomorrow. I'll start with the PTII then figure out which KFL clone I wanna order. Still leaning towards one of the ones on Slowtech unless I can find an inexpensive one stateside.

Oh no G, sorry I missed this post. Don't torch the wire. You'll just weaken it and positively inhibit it from forming the necessary oxidization layer that makes it a micro in the first place. A great part of what's been of discussion on this forum the last few months. We're building with tension on this thread as super_X_drifter who conceived of the contact coils has acknowledged — we should not be torching coils anymore. Save the barbecue. There's plenty of uses for one. Charring up good coil surface isn't one of them. Instead…


289717d1387257166-i-just-rebuilt-kanger-t3-base-img_0567a.jpg



Get back to us.

:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread