Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[kachuge]

protank recoiling......... been there, and been screwing it up forever........

...my first pref is using the stock coils at 1.8 ohms till I have to clean and dry burn them

...then I move to replacing the flavour wick with cotton yarn....... and sometimes a q-tip fluff

...next, when I get tired of cleaning and dry burning that, and replacing the cotton daily......

I toss my used ones into a glass of vodka that usually is pretty brown by the time I have ten or twenty coils in there.....

then I have a sit down and take them all apart, clean them and dry them, and rewire them.......

sometimes I use 2mm silica on the bottom, sometimes I use all 4 strands of cotton yarn, it varies..........

....i'm still experimenting..........

that's my story...... oh, and always between 1.8 and 2.02 ohms.......

g

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Oh no G, sorry I missed this post. Don't torch the wire. You'll just weaken it and positively inhibit it from forming the necessary oxidization layer that makes it a micro in the first place. A great part of what's been of discussion on this forum the last few months. We're building with tension on this thread as super_X_drifter who conceived of the contact coils has acknowledged — we should not be torching coils anymore. Save the barbecue. There's plenty of uses for one. Charring up good coil surface isn't one of them. Instead…

Get back to us.

You don't torch it while compressing it, after wrapping it, either? Or is it just the initial torching before wrapping the coil you're referring to?

So far I've been torching, then wrapping, then compressing and torching it again to really make the wraps get in contact...

And as to the silica I've been using, it's from zivipf.com in Germany and I haven't had any issues with it coming apart. Of course 1 mm is more fragile than 3 mm, but it doesn't just fall apart by itself, luckily

 

[MacTechVpr]

protank recoiling......... been there, and been screwing it up forever...…..that's my story...... oh, and always between 1.8 and 2.02 ohms

Recently I've ripped out dozens, some days I can't do a one. One day I did do a one, after crapping out a dozen. It happens. But there are some good reasons for us to keep trying and the tension wind method I describe makes it a lot easier to get there…

...let me share one of my favorite examples of why we need to tension wind. That's what we want to see happen as it impedes shorting. The reasons is that we know Kanthal forms an alumina oxide layer when electrically pulsed. Others and myself have written about this on ECF before. Makes a contact coil possible at all. Now we can do this without contact by pulsing or very irregularly possibly compromising the wire by torching. Great we have that oxidation layer, good start. We just have to get the wire to stick together now.

How about if we just do that from the start?

Imagine two sheets of drywall. Let's paint them. Let them dry. Great, we have protection of their surfaces. Now…another set, paint them…then slap 'em together. Let them dry.

Is there a difference. You betcha slip. They're now fused together, joined intrinsically. That's what we want to see with the oxide layer of Kanthal on our coils. A molecular joining of the respective oxide layers of each turn. Fused, not forced together. I'll speak to the benefits in a moment.

For the complete post and better explanation, see super_X's thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...crease-vapor-flavor-th-1062.html#post12793550.

A lot of great builders on that thread and many of ECF's best innovators.

For the essentials to get your vape right, stay tuned right here.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

You don't torch it while compressing it, after wrapping it, either? Or is it just the initial torching before wrapping the coil you're referring to?

So far I've been torching, then wrapping, then compressing and torching it again to really make the wraps get in contact...

And as to the silica I've been using, it's from zivipf.com in Germany and I haven't had any issues with it coming apart. Of course 1 mm is more fragile than 3 mm, but it doesn't just fall apart by itself, luckily

This I explained in the above article and it's been a serious topic of discussion on the above mentioned advanced thread. The traditional method of creating contact coils through forcing, I suggested could be better accomplished by adding tension (stretching it) and coiling it directly from the wire spool

This absolutely makes torching and squeezing it or forcing it into shape in any manner unnecessary. But more importantly, the coil is already as perfectly joined once you do this, in seconds. And it doesn't take much effort. Then you install the coil, balance the geometry, terminate and pulse the contact micro into being. Usually, if enough tension was applied you will go full effect microcoil on the first pulse.

And that my friend not only saves a lot of time making the coil but lots more down the road as you enjoy your vape instead.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I was going to grab the new Mega AeroTank but decided to get a Kayfun instead, I have grown weary of clearomizers.

They still have a place in my collection when I travel but otherwise they will be gathering dust.

I still have a couple of coiling ideas to test before giving up, I have this notion of a nano coil wrapped in gauze that I think will be the ultimate performer. I did a quick test build (of the coil) in a Smok Dripper RDA and it is amazing, 32g kanthal wrapped 15 times around a 1mm needle @ 2.5 ohms.

Looks like a beautiful build f1ve. It's funny so many people ignore small drippers. I gotta try everything, I guess. And I have several I still enjoy on vv eGo's for taste testing, a lot more than a carto drip these days which seems tame by comparison. Your's looks like an example. But lately I'm massaging the baby drippers with twisted.

Good luck. I'll look for ya on the Kay threads when I get around to my mounting collection of them.

 

[f1vefour]

Thanks Mac, I'm going to build that nano wrapped in gauze soon..I have what I need but I'm moving tomorrow so it's packed.

I'm going to lay a thin layer of cotton on the bottom of the coil then wrap it in gauze, the bottom cotton will force the vapor upward through the gauze...I have a good feeling about this PT build

 

[LazyBulldogge]

This I explained in the above article and it's been a serious topic of discussion on the above mentioned advanced thread. The traditional method of creating contact coils through forcing, I suggested could be better accomplished by adding tension (stretching it) and coiling it directly from the wire spool

This absolutely makes torching and squeezing it or forcing it into shape in any manner unnecessary. But more importantly, the coil is already as perfectly joined once you do this, in seconds. And it doesn't take much effort. Then you install the coil, balance the geometry, terminate and pulse the contact micro into being. Usually, if enough tension was applied you will go full effect microcoil on the first pulse.

And that my friend not only saves a lot of time making the coil but lots more down the road as you enjoy your vape instead.

Good luck.

Great post again, I'll definitely be trying this on my next builds - which will probably be tomorrow, hooray for Monday's off
Good thing I bought that 30 AWG wire though, I think the 32 AWG is too springy without torching it, to succeed with a tensioned microcoil.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Great post again, I'll definitely be trying this on my next builds - which will probably be tomorrow, hooray for Monday's off
Good thing I bought that 30 AWG wire though, I think the 32 AWG is too springy without torching it, to succeed with a tensioned microcoil.

Good job LB. Yes, 30 awg is much more suitable. A bit of luck to not overstretch 32 as it's easy to break; and, too much tension tends to bite back when you try to set it in place and withdraw the bit in the slot. It often skews if too tight. So for both 30 and 32, not too much tension but just enough to get it to stick. When you have adhesion, the tightest mother nature will allow, you will see magic happen. When you withdraw the tension — the coil just is. It stays perfectly formed. It wants to remain a coil. Keep it on the bit or screwdriver until you terminate the legs delicately. Don't add more tension than you originally added and neither to one or the other leg. Balance is key. Pretty much leave her alone, to her own devices. Set her down gently. Then when you pulse her, she'll get hot. And there ya go.

It's a wonderful thing LB.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

So I just tried some p&c yarn. Natural color and unboiled. Used a flavor wick as well. Had to try a change as I was getting a ton of little drops at the back of my throat from cotton ball. Just wanted to compare. Flavor is not nearly as strong with the p&c. Vapor production is OK.

Will continue to mess around.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

So I just tried some p&c yarn. Natural color and unboiled. Used a flavor wick as well. Had to try a change as I was getting a ton of little drops at the back of my throat from cotton ball. Just wanted to compare. Flavor is not nearly as strong with the p&c. Vapor production is OK.

Will continue to mess around.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Ditto that. I was not impressed with candle wick or yarn.

 

[brookj1986]

Question, if I'm getting spray from the coil/wick, is that due to too little cotton?

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[Taowulf]

Good job LB. Yes, 30 awg is much more suitable. A bit of luck to not overstretch 32 as it's easy to break; and, too much tension tends to bite back when you try to set it in place and withdraw the bit in the slot. It often skews if too tight. So for both 30 and 32, not too much tension but just enough to get it to stick. When you have adhesion, the tightest mother nature will allow, you will see magic happen. When you withdraw the tension — the coil just is. It stays perfectly formed. It wants to remain a coil. Keep it on the bit or screwdriver until you terminate the legs delicately. Don't add more tension than you originally added and neither to one or the other leg. Balance is key. Pretty much leave her alone, to her own devices. Set her down gently. Then when you pulse her, she'll get hot. And there ya go.

It's a wonderful thing LB.

Good luck.

This post has been rated PG-13 by the Vaping Association of America. Parents with younger readers are cautioned.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Good job LB. Yes, 30 awg is much more suitable. A bit of luck to not overstretch 32 as it's easy to break; and, too much tension tends to bite back when you try to set it in place and withdraw the bit in the slot. It often skews if too tight. So for both 30 and 32, not too much tension but just enough to get it to stick. When you have adhesion, the tightest mother nature will allow, you will see magic happen. When you withdraw the tension — the coil just is. It stays perfectly formed. It wants to remain a coil. Keep it on the bit or screwdriver until you terminate the legs delicately. Don't add more tension than you originally added and neither to one or the other leg. Balance is key. Pretty much leave her alone, to her own devices. Set her down gently. Then when you pulse her, she'll get hot. And there ya go.

It's a wonderful thing LB.

Good luck.

This post has been rated PG-13 by the Vaping Association of America. Parents with younger readers are cautioned.

Tao, I try to avoid gratuitously penetrating linguistic stylings in my posts. But what can you expect from orally fixated vapers?

Try not to spew your coffee.

Good luck.

 

[Garemlin]

This I explained in the above article and it's been a serious topic of discussion on the above mentioned advanced thread. The traditional method of creating contact coils through forcing, I suggested could be better accomplished by adding tension (stretching it) and coiling it directly from the wire spool

This absolutely makes torching and squeezing it or forcing it into shape in any manner unnecessary. But more importantly, the coil is already as perfectly joined once you do this, in seconds. And it doesn't take much effort. Then you install the coil, balance the geometry, terminate and pulse the contact micro into being. Usually, if enough tension was applied you will go full effect microcoil on the first pulse.

And that my friend not only saves a lot of time making the coil but lots more down the road as you enjoy your vape instead.

Good luck.

Hmm just about every video or tutorial I have watched about building microcoils it says to torch it into shape. So you are saying if wrapped tight enough it will retain its shape enough??? This doesn't seem like it would work too well with the PTII.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hmm just about every video or tutorial I have watched about building microcoils it says to torch it into shape. So you are saying if wrapped tight enough it will retain its shape enough??? This doesn't seem like it would work too well with the PTII.

Consider a screen door spring G. It is wound with tension around a form. The tension is stretch and that kinetic energy is stored in the wire. When you form a wire by external force you build in rigidity. It wants to stay the rigid shape in which it was formed. A shape which is not necessarily in adhesion and still there will be imperfections. With tension you build in a type of memory which is elastic. The wire tries to remain the shape in which it was wound. Consequently, pulling itself in towards adhesion or the closest possible fit that physics will allow.

There are videos on my tutorials below created by super_X_drifter who conceived of the contact micro coil. Torching Kanthal has been found to weaken it for some time now. Still most continue using the initial method. I'm trying to encourage folks to move on as the performance of a micro coil is actually electrically correct and more efficient…but with tension and adhesion it comes closer to a more perfect efficiency. A true micro coil.

Bottom line…it takes seconds to produce and it is geometrically perfect from the start (or as best as we can achieve by hand).

You'll know it when you see it. It just works.

Good luck.

 

[Garemlin]

Consider a screen door spring G. It is wound with tension around a form. The tension is stretch and that kinetic energy is stored in the wire. When you form a wire by external force you build in rigidity. It wants to stay the rigid shape in which it was formed. A shape which is not necessarily in adhesion and still there will be imperfections. With tension you build in a type of memory which is elastic. The wire tries to remain the shape in which it was wound. Consequently, pulling itself in towards adhesion or the closest possible fit that physics will allow.

There are videos on my tutorials below created by super_X_drifter who conceived of the contact micro coil. Torching Kanthal has been found to weaken it for some time now. Still most continue using the initial method. I'm trying to encourage folks to move on as the performance of a micro coil is actually electrically correct and more efficient…but with tension and adhesion it comes closer to a more perfect efficiency. A true micro coil.

Bottom line…it takes seconds to produce and it is geometrically perfect from the start (or as best as we can achieve by hand).

You'll know it when you see it. It just works.

Good luck.

I will give it a try without torching. I'm sure there will be a learning curve but I have plenty of wire coming to experiment with.

I may have asked this before (I have asked alot) but is there any difference in building a coil for a KFL and a PTII as far as the way it is actually built???

Tap'd from my LG G2

 

[brookj1986]

I will give it a try without torching. I'm sure there will be a learning curve but I have plenty of wire coming to experiment with.

I may have asked this before (I have asked alot) but is there any difference in building a coil for a KFL and a PTII as far as the way it is actually built???

Tap'd from my LG G2

To channel Mac, it will absolutely work the same. A well built, proper tensioned micro coil will work in any device.

It is great practice to use this method for all types of devices. I personally am still working on getting them properly terminated with correct tension in both the PT2 as well as my other devices including my kayfun, but am enjoying getting better!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[Garemlin]

To channel Mac, it will absolutely work the same. A well built, proper tensioned micro coil will work in any device.

It is great practice to use this method for all types of devices. I personally am still working on getting them properly terminated with correct tension in both the PT2 as well as my other devices including my kayfun, but am enjoying getting better!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Perfect. I just want to batch build and have a surplus on hand for multiple toppers. I am finding that I am starting to like the PTII more now. And with the ease of building coils I may give up on the Aspire BDC that I have been such a big fan of. I find that the dual coil drains the battery much faster. But I will prolly still use my Nautilus for my ADV juices.

Tap'd from my LG G2

 

[MacTechVpr]

Perfect. I just want to batch build and have a surplus on hand for multiple toppers. I am finding that I am starting to like the PTII more now. And with the ease of building coils I may give up on the Aspire BDC that I have been such a big fan of. I find that the dual coil drains the battery much faster. But I will prolly still use my Nautilus for my ADV juices.

Tap'd from my LG G2

True that. It's quite possible based on your wire wind. But you know G with tension the efficiency let's you get a better output at slightly higher resistance and less amp draw. So you can still enjoy duals. I love twisted 32g. Get that performance with the same tensioned wind geometry from the PT. It's pretty awesome, cooler and dense.

Good luck G.

 

[Garemlin]

True that. It's quite possible based on your wire wind. But you know G with tension the efficiency let's you get a better output at slightly higher resistance and less amp draw. So you can still enjoy duals. I love twisted 32g. Get that performance with the same tensioned wind geometry from the PT. It's pretty awesome, cooler and dense.

Good luck G.

But is there any real advantage to running a dual coil over a single. If I can get good performance from a single I see no point in running a dual.

Tap'd from my LG G2