Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[crg31953]

Personally I believe it is the wick also and adding the make up of the e-liquid chemistry makes a poor pair.
We know that rayon has to be packed tighter in th coil due to the fact that it shrinks when saturated, and this did not happen with lighter pg/vg ratios, I will go back to my organic cotton.

I honestly don't believe that coil build is the culprit. One of these days I'll have to pick up some KGD and give that a try.

Will keep everyone posted!

vape On Friends


From A Galaxy Far Away

PS-5PCL is one of my favorites!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Personally I believe it is the wick also and adding the make up of the e-liquid chemistry makes a poor pair.
We know that rayon has to be packed tighter in th coil due to the fact that it shrinks when saturated, and this did not happen with lighter pg/vg ratios, I will go back to my organic cotton.

I honestly don't believe that coil build is the culprit. One of these days I'll have to pick up some KGD and give that a try.

Will keep everyone posted!

Vape On Friends


From A Galaxy Far Away

PS-5PCL is one of my favorites!

Interestingly, the contrarian for you to consider. In such an instance to try to reduce slightly what might seem instinctively right or indicated for wick volume or density. And also up the power. Suggesting you might give it another shot. As well to try a slight dilution of your blend if tolerable. You might see an improvement in longevity over KGD if it works and good vapor production if you can overcome the throttling. But for rayon like all synthetics there is the potential to trap some pigments compromising flavor quality.

Or you could go silica and go unadulterated flavor as it's a sewer grate trapping nada. Unfortunately it tastes like the cardboard box you keep your gym treads in along with that.

There ya go.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

Interestingly, the contrarian for you to consider. In such an instance to try to reduce slightly what might seem instinctively right or indicated for wick volume or density. And also up the power. Suggesting you might give it another shot. As well to try a slight dilution of your blend if tolerable. You might see an improvement in longevity over KGD if it works and good vapor production if you can overcome the throttling. But for rayon like all synthetics there is the potential to trap some pigments compromising flavor quality.

Or you could go silica and go unadulterated flavor as it's a sewer grate trapping nada. Unfortunately it tastes like the cardboard box you keep your gym treads in along with that.

There ya go.

Good luck.

I understand what you're saying Mac, But what has me baffled is the center of the wick burning first, the coil being clean in the center and the fact that rayon handles the heat better.

I will reduce the wick density and see what the outcome is, while trying to maintain a solid wick to coil contact. I guess it is possible to choke things and end up with that result.

Regarding dilution, the only thing I'm currently setup with would be water.

Vape On My Friend!

 

[crg31953]

As an addition to my previous post, if I increase my power even by 1 watt the flavor reduces drastically?

 

[MacTechVpr]

As an addition to my previous post, if I increase my power even by 1 watt the flavor reduces drastically?

Well may be, in context of your existing config/s (load/power/flow). The wick meanwhile once installed will wet end-to-end. But if overly throttled at the end turns will not flow adequately from ends-to-center. It's constrained. However, you've just build yourself a contact supercoil with superb end-to-end uniformity of heat distribution. Where does a properly functioning microcoil heat the hottest? Where does the overload then occur? The probable deduction.

Good luck with the wick reduction. Been recommended to me numerous times for this phenomenon. What I refer to as getting ahead of the vape due to overpower (for flow)or simply, drying out the wick. And I don't think an uncommon problem you're having with CCR.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

First attempt at density reduction - flavor loss.

This may very well be an instance where wick type is not suitable for device and build quality?

Not giving up!

Vape On Friends!

From A Galaxy Far Away

 

[crg31953]

Tell me about Nextel and how it would react in this situation.
I have no idea where to even get it?

Not sure what I'm looking for, but a quick online check shows very high cost?

From A Galaxy Far Away

 

[CMD-Ky]

rbasupplies.com

It is expensive but it will last longer than the coil itself. It is quite difficult to work with in my experience. It can be dry burned clean as a new without damage. If you get it right, it is a good material. MacTech, to your undoubted surprise, has experience with ceramic and some techniques for using it. I have tried many times to use it but generally failed to make it work. On the rare occasion I got it right, it works for weeks.

Tell me about Nextel and how it would react in this situation.
I have no idea where to even get it?

Not sure what I'm looking for, but a quick online check shows very high cost?

From A Galaxy Far Away

 

[crg31953]

Is Nextel micro coil friendly?

I know where there's a will, there's usually a way, just thought I'd ask.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Not in my opinion, I find it quite difficult to thread the wick into the coil. It frays easily. Wrapping the wire around the ceramic with a mandrel through the center seems to crush it. I would like to use it due to its flavor, wicking and durability but I have found it frustrating. I have some and periodically I work with it but back it goes into the drawer with aggravation. I have watched the videos and read the hints but I have had minimal or rare success.
You might try a foot or so of each size, you may have the skill to work with it; I do not. If you can get it right, I am sure you would like it. On the very rare occasion I got it right, I liked it.

Is Nextel micro coil friendly?

I know where there's a will, there's usually a way, just thought I'd ask.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Not in my opinion, I find it quite difficult to thread the wick into the coil. It frays easily. Wrapping the wire around the ceramic with a mandrel through the center seems to crush it. I would like to use it due to its flavor, wicking and durability but I have found it frustrating. I have some and periodically I work with it but back it goes into the drawer with aggravation. I have watched the videos and read the hints but I have had minimal or rare success.
You might try a foot or so of each size, you may have the skill to work with it; I do not. If you can get it right, I am sure you would like it. On the very rare occasion I got it right, I liked it.

CMD I really feel ya man. Remind me are you winding strictly into 1/16, or have you tried .07" (1.778mm)? Just curious.

I recommend the stuff obviously for its utility. But once broken in I get stuff out of it in a Protank I've only seen from KGD when it's running at it's peak. It frustrates the hell out of me when I see folks have difficulty using it as with the OP getting the tension level consistent. If there's anything I can do. A video. Skype. You name it.

The only thing I can say worth repeating...I seldom see much splay on .07" and when it does I now it's had moisture exposure. As others have commented here and on the REOs thread treated c/w rarely does. For other reasons, it's absorption for one, I'm not a fan of plastic zip locks either (who the hell knows what's in it and what it's off-gassing). So I've taken lately to storing rolled wick in a wide-bore apothecary jar. I'd prefer to keep it straight as not introduce bend memory into the fiber. But consider that the fiber is rather inflexible. Everywhere you put a bend, the weave is going to be loosened there. If you subsequently cut in that area albeit small…the independent weave fibers are already separated.

You may try taking a short section you can experiment with and stretching it tight. This may restore the uniformity that existed in the weave to some degree. You'll lose a bit if already loosened but you'll find the spot where the tightness sets in again and things should work there. I've had to deal with moisture penetration and this has helped at times.

Whatever the material of the storage media it's got to be inert and impermeable. Big enough to avoid having to bend it beyond that typically seen inside vendor packaging. Although I believe even that may be a bit much. Maybe a glass stopped tube for short sections. I prefer continuous runs as every cut is a potential moisture penetration point. Perhaps someone here can make a suggestion. I'm talking common, accessible. Hopefully not too expensive.

Any suggestions appreciated and cmd I'm here for ya.

Take care all and good luck.

 

[crg31953]

So Mac, just ordered 2, 25 packs of complete Kanger style units from Lightning.

I guess I'll soon find out about dimensioning. I can't even fit a 5/64 in the slot of the last batch of original Kangers I ordered!

Keep On Vaping My Friends!

 

[MacTechVpr]

So Mac, just ordered 2, 25 packs of complete Kanger style units from Lightning.

I guess I'll soon find out about dimensioning. I can't even fit a 5/64 in the slot of the last batch of original Kangers I ordered!

Keep On Vaping My Friends!

I think you'll be pleased with the fit, finish and components. And the supply is consistent. You'll find the pins and grommets particularly impressive by comparison to stock factory as I commented to Sean on first inpection, nails termination.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

So how does ekowool fit in the grand scheme of things here.

This is another one of those things I've never tried.

A waste or not a waste? Micro coil friendly or not?

Vape On My Friends!

 

[MacTechVpr]

So how does ekowool fit in the grand scheme of things here.

This is another one of those things I've never tried.

A waste or not a waste? Micro coil friendly or not?

Vape On My Friends!

Hopefully others will chime in. Here's an issue which has a lot of preferences, wicking. And in many respects rightfully so, as some wicks like CCR (lyocel, rayon) can be exceptionally good for certain juice blends.

I found both high quality, i.e. high temp resistance, variations of both silica and Ekowool quite good. And in both cases as it involved a better weave or wind of the material the where slightly easier to handle. Neither can be wicked directly into the coil efficiently without splaying or fraying. But most importantly no synthetic shares the astounding flow characteristics of ceramic woven media.

Some people however object to ceramic's kilned taste. I find that it's gone within an eighth of a fill in a Protank and it's broken in. Thereafter Nextel is virtually flavor neutral.

For me both silica and Ekowool have a distinctive flavor signature. It does not go away. However, most of us can sort of neutralize that perception (get used to it might be one way of putting it). I find I can't do that with cotton even KGD. So it gets ashy tasting to me rather quickly and it's a toss-up between that and the cotton taste again. Somewhere in the middle and all too frequently for too little a window KGD is the best taste I've ever experienced.

Is it worth sampling the rest. Yes, most definitely. There will be those flavor mixtures that will just shine on both. If you have the time to pursue that I would strongly recommend it. At least with your favorites. In reality it's with those that are not that the effort might be worthwhile

One often ignored option is Nextel's XS-116 which is 3M's proprietary and extraordinary weave but a silica rather than ceramic product. Silica lovers may love this as an alternative. But it lacks ceramic's rigidity so it cannot be threaded directly as well.

It's late. Gotta get some rest.

Take care and good luck all.

 

[scratchtheweasel]

Just popping my head up on this thread to say hi. 190 pages is a lot to catch up on, but I will be going through it as part of my evolving obsession with PT/AT coil building. MacTech and others have given me a few pointers in another thread, and it's getting there slowly. It's a strange obsession...my Taifun GT is by far a much more capable system and a cake to build. These PT atomizers are a pain, but I am determined to get this perfected. Partially because I own two AT's that are part of my daily rotation, and I am fed up with factory stuff. And partially (or mostly) just because I feel 'called out' by these atomizers. They mock me and taunt me to try again.

Looking forward to learning from you folks who have been doing this for a long time. See you guys around the forum.

 

[crg31953]

Suspicion's,

So I have been doing some playing around (testing) with my rayon burning from the center of the coil outward on my PT2's. What I suspect, and I mean SUSPECT is this.

Suspicion's are based on 30 gauge A1 Kanthal, 8/7 wrap, .0625 I.D., 1.5 ohm .250 total leg length and CCR. E-liquid is 5PCL, 50/50 pg/vg and 6mg nic.

At first it was suspected that wick density may be to great, Mac helped with assumption. It truly made sense due to coil build and other factors.

Reducing the wick density only showed a loss of flavor and in the long run improper coil to wick contact.

Increasing the power from my usual 10 watts instantly gave a burnt taste, while reducing the power showed a diminishing flavor and that too is unacceptable.

Airflow modifications showed no difference that improved or worsened anything much leading me to believe that this combination was at it's sweet spot. Wick issue was not resolved and after 2 to 3 tanks a burnt taste came back and re-wicking was called for. The coil also needed dry burning.

So this is my opinion, the results I was having with this build is more than likely a combination of things more than it is just one. First the I.D. of the coil is quite small. When you concentrate that much heat into a small diameter and a very short length you are going to need adequate liquid flow and airflow to cool both your coil and wick. I had reduced liquid flow and decent airflow as shown by flavor. I think I could have been vaping a 2" pipe and liquid flow or adequate wicking was the determining factor here. It wasn't enough.

I am not a chemist, but I do know that what's in your e-liquid plays into the situation and I will leave that as a trial and error thing based on personal tastes.

What I'm going to try next is increasing the size of the of the coil, moving the I.D. up to .070 and the length to whatever a 2ohm coil will put me at. I know that the I.D. increase as minimal as it seams will increase wicking potential and the coil length increase should slow down the heat transfer to a degree allowing more time for wicking. This is assuming I use the same power and I will to start. If my reasoning is correct this should allow more time for heat to move from the center to the outer edges of the coil allowing for a decent vape before burn.

Mac, please correct me if I am off base with this!

I'll keep you informed!

Vape On My Friends!

 

[chanelvaps]

I agree, my Taifuns are a cake walk to build in comparison. The Protank rebuilds are nibble finger work and I have "trigger finger" so my fingers (especially left pointer finger) does not always want to cooperate. After buying the Pin Vise and drill bit blank that Mac advised it is going much better.
We all continue to try to get the best build even though we love our Taifuns, Foggers, Kayfuns etc because it is a hell of a good vape when you get it right. The challenge.

Just popping my head up on this thread to say hi. 190 pages is a lot to catch up on, but I will be going through it as part of my evolving obsession with PT/AT coil building. MacTech and others have given me a few pointers in another thread, and it's getting there slowly. It's a strange obsession...my Taifun GT is by far a much more capable system and a cake to build. These PT atomizers are a pain, but I am determined to get this perfected. Partially because I own two AT's that are part of my daily rotation, and I am fed up with factory stuff. And partially (or mostly) just because I feel 'called out' by these atomizers. They mock me and taunt me to try again.

Looking forward to learning from you folks who have been doing this for a long time. See you guys around the forum.

 

[chanelvaps]

I use the .71 drill blank and 6 wraps gives me 1.7 so I am thinking you will use 7 wraps (30 gauge)

Suspicion's,

So I have been doing some playing around (testing) with my rayon burning from the center of the coil outward on my PT2's. What I suspect, and I mean SUSPECT is this.

Suspicion's are based on 30 gauge A1 Kanthal, 8/7 wrap, .0625 I.D., 1.5 ohm .250 total leg length and CCR. E-liquid is 5PCL, 50/50 pg/vg and 6mg nic.

At first it was suspected that wick density may be to great, Mac helped with assumption. It truly made sense due to coil build and other factors.

Reducing the wick density only showed a loss of flavor and in the long run improper coil to wick contact.

Increasing the power from my usual 10 watts instantly gave a burnt taste, while reducing the power showed a diminishing flavor and that too is unacceptable.

Airflow modifications showed no difference that improved or worsened anything much leading me to believe that this combination was at it's sweet spot. Wick issue was not resolved and after 2 to 3 tanks a burnt taste came back and re-wicking was called for. The coil also needed dry burning.

So this is my opinion, the results I was having with this build is more than likely a combination of things more than it is just one. First the I.D. of the coil is quite small. When you concentrate that much heat into a small diameter and a very short length you are going to need adequate liquid flow and airflow to cool both your coil and wick. I had reduced liquid flow and decent airflow as shown by flavor. I think I could have been vaping a 2" pipe and liquid flow or adequate wicking was the determining factor here. It wasn't enough.

I am not a chemist, but I do know that what's in your e-liquid plays into the situation and I will leave that as a trial and error thing based on personal tastes.

What I'm going to try next is increasing the size of the of the coil, moving the I.D. up to .070 and the length to whatever a 2ohm coil will put me at. I know that the I.D. increase as minimal as it seams will increase wicking potential and the coil length increase should slow down the heat transfer to a degree allowing more time for wicking. This is assuming I use the same power and I will to start. If my reasoning is correct this should allow more time for heat to move from the center to the outer edges of the coil allowing for a decent vape before burn.

Mac, please correct me if I am off base with this!

I'll keep you informed!

Vape On My Friends!

 

[crg31953]

I use the .71 drill blank and 6 wraps gives me 1.7 so I am thinking you will use 7 wraps (30 gauge)

Pretty close there channel, it would actually put me at a 9/8 wrap to get 2.0ohms with a .070 I.D.. But we're on the same page

Vape On My Friends!

PS- Are you modifying your bases to fit that size .071?