Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

Yes googling words. This is why I intend on posting blogs with the correct terminology. If you google "adhesion" you will never find out why your winds hold together when wound with tension. If you google "stress vs strain" and "how do springs work" you will! Do it and you will find that the internal strain in the wire caused by stress (tension winding) causes the coil to act as a tension spring and really has nothing to do with adhesion even though it appears that the coils are adhered together.
I love Mac's dedication and contributions to the vaping community. He and few others here are responsible for my better health. For those who want to either verify, investigate or learn more about the physics of vaping however the terms must be accurate. Just say'n

cig

I'm quite pleased to adapt the terms mechanical strain (tension) and adhesion as the means and outcome…if it damn well helps me get new vapers there. And having conceived of the outcome I feel somewhat privileged to take such license cig. Whether you approve of its correctness or not. It serves the purpose elegantly and succinctly. So I have no doubt readers will understand and find substantiation for my assertions. And I am not at all inclined to think that this irregular use of the classical definition of mechanical adhesion simply does not apply in this case. How many instances of strain to bonding are you personally familiar with? I'm not the supreme court here. Vaper's are. I'll take my chances with them, damn the torpedoes.

As for the term microcoil which has now attained popular status as the label for a contact coil (however made or however much our protest about its correctness or accuracy) the public will decide what terminology is useful and appropriate to what it is and its function. Maybe for tensioned as well. Who knows.

At the end of the day there's little wrong with my terminology other than my incessant misspelling and correction (thanks to my hyperactive spell-checker). My apologies too for the constant updates.

But I would agree with you cig wholeheartedly that language is often used way too frivolously on this forum.

Also, that this should not be the place to go to such lengths as I've often expressed to you.

I'm not writing by virtue of my preferences or yours; but to try to achieve an outcome that vapers may benefit from by being able to duplicate my results. In that I think I've been fairly successful. I'd really prefer not to be doing this instead. It's a waste of time I feel. I can spend more of my efforts continuing to perfect this technology by helping the fine people that come here than dissecting the semantics. Or talkin' about it. I talk a lot but to get folks to that point of trying it and succeeding with their vape.

It don't mean a thing if no one can do it.

Good luck.

 

[cigatron]

I'm quite pleased to adapt the terms mechanical strain (tension) and adhesion as the means and outcome…if it damn well helps me get new vapers there. And having conceived of the outcome I feel somewhat privileged to take such license cig. Whether you approve of its correctness or not. It serves the purpose elegantly and succinctly. So I have no doubt readers will understand and find substantiation for my assertions. And I am not at all inclined to think that this irregular use of the classical definition of mechanical adhesion simply does not apply in this case. How many instances of strain to bonding are you personally familiar with? I'm not the supreme court here. Vaper's are. I'll take my chances with them, damn the torpedoes.

As for the term microcoil which has now attained popular status as the label for a contact coil (however made or however much our protest about its correctness or accuracy) the public will decide what terminology is useful and appropriate to what it is and its function. Maybe for tensioned as well. Who knows.

At the end of the day there's little wrong with my terminology other than my incessant misspelling and correction (thanks to my hyperactive spell-checker). My apologies too for the constant updates.

But I would agree with you cig wholeheartedly that language is often used way too frivolously on this forum.

Also, that this should not be the place to go to such lengths as I've often expressed to you.

I'm not writing by virtue of my preferences or yours; but to try to achieve an outcome that vapers may benefit from by being able to duplicate my results. In that I think I've been fairly successful. I'd really prefer not to be doing this instead. It's a waste of time I feel. I can spend more of my efforts continuing to perfect this technology by helping the fine people that come here than dissecting the semantics. Or talkin' about it. I talk a lot but to get folks to that point of trying it and succeeding with their vape.

It don't mean a thing if no one can do it.

Good luck.

Mac, you have me and my motives all wrong. You go ahead and call a zebra a horse but don't be surprised when noobs have trouble understanding the concepts when they search the internet and don't find stripes.

You are right, this thread is not the place to argue definitions of terms; just the place to use the correct ones.
As I said, I'm going to BLOG them.

Nuf said

cig

 

[Jaime Bates]

Okay I think now the whole pin vise thingy makes sense to me haha. I just couldnt wrap my head around HOW you guys were anchoring the kanthal down since ultimately youre legs need to be perpindicular to the coil in the end.. I was googling 'wrap coil with pin vise' earlier and came across a crapload of threads both here and at like reddit on it and the thing that made it click was a post and a blog by our man Mac Tech Viper himself that made it go AH HA!!!
So to start, if you check this thread, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rapping-coils-coil-jig-metal-rods-etc-11.html, Mac is showing you how it works using a jewelers screwdriver to wrap it right off the spool, in post #109 about halfway down.. Im assuming hes holding the one leg on the body of the screwdriver right Mac? So this would be like the good old 'tape it to a screwdriver method'..

You can see what the results look like here, in one of Mac's blogs: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...88-pin-vise-perfect-tension-winding-tool.html

The whole thing that was stopping me up was just how that leg was being held, but I guess this is how you do it. Just stick the first 'leg' length of the coil directly into the chuck WITH the drill bit, start the coil where you want it, then twist away! That ONE picture in that blog coupled with the ONE picture in that thread just made me 'get it' in an instant hehe..

That said, just placed my first order for 100ft of some 32ga Kanthal on Amazon (for $3.99 even!!). Ive got like 20 PT2/Evod heads in stock, just ordered a full size PT2 to go with my mini.. Looks like well be going in now haha! Almost ordered an RBA actually just to get started with it, but eh, I like the PT2 mini so gonna stick it out and try the big one now.. Bonus points, MFS gives you a choice so I got to order the blue glass with it hehehe..

Uh oh look out guys and gals hes going in. Lol but you got it right on how its done with a pin vise so easy. You'll see.

 

[Jaime Bates]

Looking forward to it Jamie!!

I am just not very photogenic and I always have a house full of peeps. So in order to build and show for instructional purpose I need everyone gone. Plus a camera setup to do it so I will be figuring this out really soon.
The only camera I have is a digital photography on and the one on the phone. So with that being said ill see what I can do maybe I can hook something up with the laptop and web cam.
Hopefully will have something together this week!

 

[Monotremata]

Haha I'm stoked on a whole new level!! I obviously have to wait til it gets here to get it down, but I think I got this! I've got plenty of heads, I can get grommets and o-rings to no end.. All I gotta do now is make my own juice and other than the batteries and tanks, I am totally self sufficient and saving all kinds off money I'd be wasting on Pall Malls now! Glad I grabbed that PT2 cause it looks like the few vendors that had em were getting rid of em. I noticed my usual "go to" vendor doesn't even list my mini I got like 2 weeks ago (sorry guys MFS beat you on shipping AND let me choose my glass color hehe). I wonder if our good old Protanks are now "end of line"...

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

 

[Monotremata]

I am just not very photogenic and I always have a house full of peeps. So in order to build and show for instructional purpose I need everyone gone. Plus a camera setup to do it so I will be figuring this out really soon.
The only camera I have is a digital photography on and the one on the phone. So with that being said ill see what I can do maybe I can hook something up with the laptop and web cam.
Hopefully will have something together this week!

Oh come on you gotta be more photogenic than most of us old dudes!

I MIGHT be able to help out once my wire arrives. I'm in the same boat cam wise but maybe I can get my roommate aka-"the ex" to let me borrow her Macbook. At the very least I could do one to show the technique to get it started.. The one thing I need to get down is how many coils using the "micro" factor. Steam Engine tells me 6/5 but I'm guessing that's spaced like the stock ones are so do I do the same for a compressed micro coil??? Thank god my "upgrade" from my Evod was an MVP2 cause I HATE checking resistances with my volt meter hehe..

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[Jaime Bates]

Oh come on you gotta be more photogenic than most of us old dudes!

I MIGHT be able to help out once my wire arrives. I'm in the same boat cam wise but maybe I can get my roommate aka-"the ex" to let me borrow her Macbook. At the very least I could do one to show the technique to get it started.. The one thing I need to get down is how many coils using the "micro" factor. Steam Engine tells me 6/5 but I'm guessing that's spaced like the stock ones are so do I do the same for a compressed micro coil??? Thank god my "upgrade" from my Evod was an MVP2 cause I HATE checking resistances with my volt meter hehe..

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

MVP2 is a great device its what I got I love it I also have the Atomo clone topped with the stillare.

Im sure I'd be fine but I really want to do a video and show all what a tensioned micro coil would look and how easy it is to do with a pin vise. Just so I can show all the knowledge that Mac has been so kind to pass down to me.

I look at it like this we are all vapors after the same common goal that flavor and mass vapor. So with the right coil and devices it can be done.

I will have a video for you all soon showing how to do the t.m.c and how to install and wick into a PT2.

But just so you can see this is my everyday vape devise right here! Lol
Happy vaping![emoji2][emoji2]

 

[MacTechVpr]

I don't know from motives sig. I can only account for my own.

The word A D H E S I O N captures the imagination.

I'll trust vapers to consider whether the definition is technically accurate later…after they build it and vape it.

This is the Protank Microcoil thread people.

Let's get a vape on and show 'em how it's done.

All are welcomed here. Even I was.

Good luck

 

[cigatron]

Ever notice that what appears to be a perfectly set tmc ends up separating at the end turns after your first or second test fire?
If you "twisted" off the legs at the grommet this is likely the cause: Twisting off the legs imparts torque strain (twisting energy) into the legs between the grommet and the end turns of the coil. This twisting energy remains there until the coil is heated. When the coil heats up the wire becomes increasingly malleable (softer) and is easily bent. At this point the torque stress (twisting energy) contained in the legs is released causing the end turns to separate (bend).

It is better idea to clip the legs off with a single bevel wire cutter (one that is ground flat on one side and sometimes called a flush cutter/trimmer). Nail clippers and scissors work too but can leave hangers causing shorts between the pos pin and ground (neg).

Alternatively you can (as I do) compress the grommet with your thumb while bending the wire straight up and down and with some outward tension to break it off flush with the grommet.

Hope this help some

cig

 

[Jaime Bates]

Ever notice that what appears to be a perfectly set tmc ends up separating at the end turns after your first or second test fire?
If you "twisted" off the legs at the grommet this is likely the cause: Twisting off the legs imparts torque strain (twisting energy) into the legs between the grommet and the end turns of the coil. This twisting energy remains there until the coil is heated. When the coil heats up the wire becomes increasingly malleable (softer) and is easily bent. At this point the torque stress (twisting energy) contained in the legs is released causing the end turns to separate (bend).

It is better idea to clip the legs off with a single bevel wire cutter (one that is ground flat on one side and sometimes called a flush cutter/trimmer). Nail clippers and scissors work too but can leave hangers causing shorts between the pos pin and ground (neg).

Alternatively you can (as I do) compress the grommet with your thumb while bending the wire straight up and down and with some outward tension to break it off flush with the grommet.

Hope this help some

cig

I have never seen this problem with my coils. But always clip my ends off but sometimes if I have to do a build at work out of need I forgot the clippers. I twist em and coil still looks like the ones in my previous posts.

 

[chanelvaps]

Cig where do we get this:
single bevel wire cutter
I do end up with hangars because sometimes my nail clippers are too big to get close enough

 

[Mazinny]

Screwdriver, Pin Vise, Cigatron Coil Winder, Coiling Gizmo etc,,, They all work !

The learning curve might be a little steeper with one or the other, but so long as you are able to wrap with tension off the spool, you will get there. Once you are able to execute your first proper tensioned contact coil, you will know ! take a picture and magnify, guys and gals ! There is a difference in performance and definitely longevity and maintainability, between perfect and almost ! just saying !

 

[Jaime Bates]

Cig where do we get this:
single bevel wire cutter
I do end up with hangars because sometimes my nail clippers are too big to get close enough

Chanel homedepot or on Amazon they have em for sure

 

[cigatron]

Cig where do we get this:
single bevel wire cutter
I do end up with hangars because sometimes my nail clippers are too big to get close enough

Search for flush cutter on amazon.

cig

 

[super_X_drifter]

These single bevel flush cutters were like $5 at Walmart in their beading / jewelry making section

 

[redordead]

Its quite a big thread to read it all lol. Anyone have an idea of the best way to build a 2.4 ohms coil. Ill be using either a 1.5mm or 1.8mm bit. 1.8mm is snug when i insert the coil.

I have been using steamengine.org but find they fall short if the recommendation by 0.2 - 0.4 ohms. Im using 32awg at the moment but im finding it difficult. 28awg takes forever to heat up and the length of the coil doesnt work with the ohms im trying to achieve.

I have some 30awg due in this week!

 

[Mazinny]

Its quite a big thread to read it all lol. Anyone have an idea of the best way to build a 2.4 ohms coil. Ill be using either a 1.5mm or 1.8mm bit. 1.8mm is snug when i insert the coil.

I have been using steamengine.org but find they fall short if the recommendation by 0.2 - 0.4 ohms. Im using 32awg at the moment but im finding it difficult. 28awg takes forever to heat up and the length of the coil doesnt work with the ohms im trying to achieve.

I have some 30awg due in this week!

Have you been changing the leg length from the pre-set 5 mm to 16 mm ?

10/9 wraps of 30g on a 1.8 mm bit, should get you around 2.4 ohms.

 

[Monotremata]

Wow never took the leg length into account. So I just did the numbers at Steam Engine again.. With 32ga and a 1/16" diameter, with the legs at 0.629" (16mm), it says I only need 4 wraps to hit 1.8 ohms??? Only 4???

My wire should be here by Wednesday, can't wait to get started!!

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[crg31953]

Wow never took the leg length into account. So I just did the numbers at Steam Engine again.. With 32ga and a 1/16" diameter, with the legs at 0.629" (16mm), it says I only need 4 wraps to hit 1.8 ohms??? Only 4???

My wire should be here by Wednesday, can't wait to get started!!

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

One thing to remember Mono is that the Steam Engine calculator uses combined leg length (both together). The length is also calculated from the point it leaves the coil till it makes contact, that would be at the top of the positive pin insulator. I usually allow .250 for leg length. If you look inside after you set the coil, I can't see it being anymore than 1/8" per leg. I've never measured it but I think it's pretty close.

Just My

Vape On My Friends!

PS - Based on my PT2's

 

[Mazinny]

One thing to remember Mono is that the Steam Engine calculator uses combined leg length (both together). The length is also calculated from the point it leaves the coil till it makes contact, that would be at the top of the positive pin insulator. I usually allow .250 for leg length. If you look inside after you set the coil, I can't see it being anymore than 1/8" per leg. I've never measured it but I think it's pretty close.

Just My

Vape On My Friends!

PS - Based on my PT2's

wow that seems very low. If my math is correct, .25 inches is about 6.35 mm or 3 mm for the shorter leg, and 3.35 mm ( approx. ) for the longer. That is way different from both my visual observation and measurements