Provari vs. Provari Mini...............

[belialNZ]

You don't get "Free" energy by pushing the voltage up, doing so causes increased current drain on the battery in order to provide the required power.




I have to disagree with you belialNZ and the reason is simple.

Capacitors, Inductors, Transistors, and Diodes! These components come together to create the circuits needed for increased voltage.

Using a simple inductor in series with a DC source to increase the voltage in then store a higher voltage in a capacitor.

And that Sir is why i get better battery life when using a provari with a 2.5ohm atty at 5v
when compared to a 1.5atty at 3.7V.

If you dont believe me try it out and compare

So, you are claiming that a combination of capacitors, inductors, transistors and diodes can magically create energy?

If that was the case, we'd all be attaching provari's to solar panels and powering our homes.

If you want to put 10 W through an atomiser of ANY resistance, you will need to draw AT LEAST 10 W from your battery. Your Battery has a limited potential difference (V), so apply ohms law and you will discover you are drawing a lot more amps than you think.

I not only don't believe you, but I have tried it and not noticed any subjective difference.

However I am SURE there is a minor difference due to varying efficiencies of the boost circuit, however those are VERY difficult to discern in day to day usage (We are talking 3-4%).

 

[rc10mike]

Lol at the guy who believes in free energy

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[belialNZ]

This was all explained earlier in the thread.

I was trying to explain to belialNZ from his post that there is no real(worth mentioning) increased drain on the battery due to increasing the voltage.

OK, so you are saying that a 3.7V battery driving a 2ohm coil (6.85W), can, without "real(worth mentioning) increased drain", become 5V driving the same coil at 12.5W.

Could you back that claim up?

 

[rondasherrill]

Okay, so judging by what I read HERE it doesn't matter if you use low resistance or high voltage. It seems that the only factors to take into account for battery life would be the end result Power in watts, the current charge of the actual battery in volts, and the efficiency of the boost converter...

As best I can tell, you judge the amps being pulled from the battery with the following equation:

(Power Output / Battery Voltage) * Converter Efficiency

In my scenario, 10.5 watts divided by 4.2v(full charge) = 2.5A times 90%(just a guess) = 2.78A. That's 2.78A draw, regardless of the atomizer ohms and voltage setting, so long as the power output and battery charge are the same.

Do I have that about right?

So, you are claiming that a combination of capacitors, inductors, transistors and diodes can magically create energy?

If that was the case, we'd all be attaching provari's to solar panels and powering our homes.

If you want to put 10 W through an atomiser of ANY resistance, you will need to draw AT LEAST 10 W from your battery. Your Battery has a limited potential difference (V), so apply ohms law and you will discover you are drawing a lot more amps than you think.

I not only don't believe you, but I have tried it and not noticed any subjective difference.

However I am SURE there is a minor difference due to varying efficiencies of the boost circuit, however those are VERY difficult to discern in day to day usage (We are talking 3-4%).

 

[belialNZ]

Okay, so judging by what I read HERE it doesn't matter if you use low resistance or high voltage. It seems that the only factors to take into account for battery life would be the end result Power in watts, the current charge of the actual battery in volts, and the efficiency of the boost converter...

As best I can tell, you judge the amps being pulled from the battery with the following equation:

(Power Output / Battery Voltage) * Converter Efficiency

In my scenario, 10.5 watts divided by 4.2v(full charge) = 2.5A times 90%(just a guess) = 2.78A. That's 2.78A draw, regardless of the atomizer ohms and voltage setting, so long as the power output and battery charge are the same.

Do I have that about right?

Yes. 90% is a pessimist guess, but probably not far off the truth, I think 95% would be considered "good".

There is a variation of efficiency depending on power, I have no ACTUAL measurements for provari, but for example it MIGHT be 93% efficient at 4V and 92% efficient at 5V for instance.

But I personally think from the consumer point of view, its not worth worrying about that small variation.

 

[rondasherrill]

Yes. 90% is a pessimist guess, but probably not far off the truth, I think 95% would be considered "good".

There is a variation of efficiency depending on power, I have no ACTUAL measurements for provari, but for example it MIGHT be 93% efficient at 4V and 92% efficient at 5V for instance.

But I personally think from the consumer point of view, its not worth worrying about that small variation.

Yea I was thinking that 90% was low, but when working without exact numbers, I like to work with worst possible scenarios...

Well, I learned something new tonight. Love when that happens... Granted I had to read that thread I linked to about 6 times to completely grasp it...

What makes it really interesting to me though, is the effect of the battery getting low... Using my previous example:

10.5 watts divided by 4.2v(full charge) = 2.5A times 90%(just a guess) = 2.78A; BUT when the battery is getting low:

10.5 watts divided by 3.5v(low battery) = 3A times 90%(just a guess) = 3.33A
So as the battery loses charge, the amp draw actually increases substantially...

*@belialNZ
It's obvious you get this, I'm posting the numbers for everyone's benefit.

 

[belialNZ]

Yea I was thinking that 90% was low, but when working without exact numbers, I like to work with worst possible scenarios...

I think its a testament to the quality of Provapes product that no one seems to have had the courage to pull their device apart and make a graph of the efficiency

Oh, And yes, the current drain increases as the battery looses potential, but thats like one of the best things about the Provari, you get consistent vape, and I would much rather have a consistent level of power in my vape than deal with a gradual decline in quality as the battery runs down, even if the battery runs down a little bit faster to give me that consistency.

 

[Skyway]

10.5 watts divided by 4.2v(full charge) = 2.5A times 90%(just a guess) = 2.78A; BUT when the battery is getting low:

10.5 watts divided by 3.5v(low battery) = 3A times 90%(just a guess) = 3.33A
So as the battery loses charge, the amp draw actually increases substantially...

This is the reason why when your battery on your phone gets past half way, it doesn't seem to last as long. Because in essence, it can't. Once it gets past the normal operating voltage of the battery it works that much more amperage out of the battery.

 

[tybs_4045]

So, you are claiming that a combination of capacitors, inductors, transistors and diodes can magically create energy?

If that was the case, we'd all be attaching provari's to solar panels and powering our homes.

If you want to put 10 W through an atomiser of ANY resistance, you will need to draw AT LEAST 10 W from your battery. Your Battery has a limited potential difference (V), so apply ohms law and you will discover you are drawing a lot more amps than you think.

I not only don't believe you, but I have tried it and not noticed any subjective difference.

However I am SURE there is a minor difference due to varying efficiencies of the boost circuit, however those are VERY difficult to discern in day to day usage (We are talking 3-4%).

Well thanks for everyone who explained how electricity works to the C&M electrician lol

I never said anything about magically creating energy.....im saying the electronics parts(capacitors, inductors, transistors and diodes ect..) are used to increase the voltage.

Also if you wanna get techy you dont put 10 W into anything. Are you talking current????
And im not drawing more amps than i think.

And if you are saying that the Total current produced is actually different than the current across an atomizer in a simple curcuit...wow i think georg would have something to say to that.

You cannot have different currents add together to more than what was produced! It must equal the total current!

Your all forgetting another major important factor.... HEAT.....drawing less current will increase the battery life plain and simple.

 

[tybs_4045]

OK, so you are saying that a 3.7V battery driving a 2ohm coil (6.85W), can, without "real(worth mentioning) increased drain", become 5V driving the same coil at 12.5W.

Could you back that claim up?

No im saying increasing the voltage UNLOADED will cause no worth mentioning drain on the battery

Im no battery expert but the electronics involved to increase a voltage do not use the energy you are suggesting.

Also there is a reason why batteries are rated in mAh.

 

[tybs_4045]

Lol at the guy who believes in free energy

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

We can dream

 

[TechJ]

Rather than argue about this and being way off topic. As the title states this is about the provari vs the provari mini. Logic would suggest the mini has a little less battery life due to form factor and the 18490 size limit with the extender. They both use the same v2 electronics package. So size , battery life, and styling represent the differences between the two.

 

[tybs_4045]

I agree we are way off topic and want to apoligize.

 

[tybs_4045]

magz -----I think you will be happy with the Standard size.
But i do prefer the look of the mini.

 

[Nicotinologist]

I think you guys are just confusing yourselves (me included). Why not take a break and do some careful review on what's been said. Do some circuit analysis, create charts on v, p, i etc. Another thing to do is hook an amp/ voltage gauges on the battery and one on the ato circuit? Is it worth the effort? Hell no. Let's just all vape and be happy no matter what type PV we use. You all are smart people, but some have more experience in electronics than others, so big deal. As a side note: We, as ex-cigarette smokers, never argue on which cig is the best when we were hooked, right? Why? Because we just want to smoke, nothing else. Have fun, guys.

 

[rocky111]

I go for the mini, i love the small sizesince the attys i use on it are massive

 

[belialNZ]

I go for the mini, i love the small sizesince the attys i use on it are massive

I prefer the Mini for my out-and-about device, I just keep some backup 18350's in my pocket just in case. I also prefer the smaller size as atty is almost the same size so it makes for a shorter over-all device.

At home I tend to go for my original Provari, still going strong after all this time and almost polished from constant use

 

[thinkingaboutit]

I never said anything about magically creating energy

Magical energy isn't available until the v3 comes out. Be patient.

The best thing in the thread for me was the pic of the mini with extended cap next to the regular. Vape time is subjective at best anyway. Throw all the calculations you want at it...but battery age and QC hasn't yet been factored in. How you handle that? Calculations based on life left after X charge cycles? You are wasting more time figuring it out than a battery costs even working at minimum wage. Get an extra battery if you have issues and want the smaller size.

 

[Riverboat]

I have em both, its a must.... If I could only have one I would go for the full size due to the 18650 battery option..
But really the mini is my favorite with the 18490 ext. cap... It feels the best in the hand... The full size with the standard cap(18490) is not as comfortable due to the sharp edge of the standard cap, where as the mini with the extention cap(18490) has that rounded edge....

 

[kiba]

I decided on the mini for me and my gf, black w/ blue led for me, pink w/ red led for her. After a while, i will get the extender caps and some 18490's, but for now, i really dont mind carrying 2 18350's w/ me. IMO the mini is perfect if youre out&about a lot, and especially w/ bigger tanks & atties like the ZAP, which i plan on getting soon too as well. My gf wanted a more manageable and 'girly' one so she was pretty much set on the mini from the start, while it took me a bit to decide.... but im glad i chose the mini. IMO if youre an ego user you could probably compare the 18350's to the batt life of a standard 650 ego, which isnt too bad at all, especially if you have an extra 18350 or 2 w/ you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk