Question about a Genesis on a PT

[Gabe1291]

Ok, I keep trying to use my pill fob genesis on the 5v USB pass-thru I made, and I keep running into a problem. The blasted thing won't produce any vapor at all on the PT, just a light smolder that's not enough to vape.

It's a 36ga A-1 Kanthal coil, 3-4 wraps at 3.2 ohms. Checked it with the multi and I get 5v unloaded and 3.8 loaded. I've hooked it into a 2.1amp wall wart, 2amp 12v USB plug in the truck, and on the direct 5v rail off my comps PSU via a converted Molex connector. I've tried it on the 5amp and 18amp rails with no success.

The same coil vapes like a champ at 3.7-4.2v on my brass pipe mechanical using a 14500, and even works on my back-up Ego battery just as well, so I'm stumped

I've also tried building the coil different ways as well. Started with a braided ULRA coil at .5 ohms, tried a 2ohm single, tried a 4.5 ohm single, and now on a 3.2, even wound an 9 ohm, but couldn't get crap outa it

Any ideas anybody?

Just want something for at the desk vaping without using batts or having to swap to those infernal CE2's I have as a back-up.

 

[rusalka]

Have you ensured that the center pin is making connection? It sounds as if you aren't getting connection.

 

[BJ43]

"Checked it with the multi and I get 5v unloaded and 3.8 loaded."

Very high drop in voltage.. Check all connections, does the PT work with other attys?

 

[Gabe1291]

Very high drop in voltage.. Check all connections, does the PT work with other attys?

That's what I thought as well, but thought it had something to do with the way I had the coil wound on the genesis which was part of the reason I wound so many coils. Also checked the resistance of it at the connector, but it has the same reading I get when I check it at the coil wires, so there are no bad solder joints causing a step-up in resistance. Also checked the mesh and body for shorts as well, hoping something like that may be the problem, but no dice

It works with my CE2 cartos and makes the DC cartos sing, so it's working well with everything else non-genesis. Did the staple trick to make sure the center pin was making good connection, and still the same results.

 

[BJ43]

I use VVPT mods 99% of the time and ss wick on all, when I have a problem I normally just oxidize more and re wind the coil, these thing can be finicky.

 

[Gabe1291]

Warning graphic intense

Ok I got pics this time, tried it with some silica wick salvaged from a broken CE2 to eliminate the possibility of the coil shorting to the mesh, still no dice, even clipped the resistor free from the PT to disable the LED so it doesn't add a drain to the system, but no luck, the 5v PT still fails to work well with the Genesis.


OK here is the Silica Wick Set-up

Deactivated

On the Brass Pipe Mod

On the PT

Here is my normal coil and mesh set-up

Deactivated

On the Brass Pipe

On the PT

Hardware I'm using

This is what I use to hook the PT straight to the 5v rail on my comp's PSU

And this is the single battery in the Brass Pipe

So far the only way I've gotten the PT to vape good with the genesis is by hooking it to the 12v rail instead of the 5v. It vaped like a monster, but it melted a T-tank, and I couldn't keep it fed dripping. I wouldn't dare try that with a china atty but a braided coil genesis can take the abuse. The TH was insane though, so not something I could vape while working at the comp. I was getting a nic buzz off 6mg juice at the 12v range. ......or possibly the fumes from the melting T-tank.

So any ideas guys? Sorry about not having the Ohms for the coils for this, blew the fuse in the multimeter trying to read the amps off the PSU, so it's dead till Rat Shack opens in the AM.

 

[asdaq]

Your PSU should have the amperage rating either on a sticker or online according to a spec sheet from a model number, but I would stick with the wallwarts and save the PSU for computing. Actually you listed the amps in the first post.

The pics help but you left out the PT cable. From the adapter pic, you have heavier gauge from the molex and then a run of the mill usb attached to this. The gauge is smaller, there is just more insulation. Usb is intended for rather low current usage. If your PT cable is similar, you have several feet of thin gauge wire and this adds resistance big time. Recently someone had similar problems and replaced the usb wiring with heavier gauge wire (mains) and it helped. Also you want to make sure the PT's internal wiring doesn't have choke points too. Best of luck.

 

[Gabe1291]

Well considering I just plan on using it at the comp, I could just run some wire through some clear vinyl tubing and just use the Molex connector, and skip the USB part outright. Though the USB cable seemed to handle the 12v loading pretty well, no heat or odd smells at least. Once I change the fuse in the multi I'll do a check of the ohms on the PT wire and see what I get.

The thing that is getting me though is the fact that it runs normal atty's, cartos, and even DC Cartos like a dream, and I can't tell a difference between the PT and my VV box with those, but the min I put a genesis on it, it just flat out drops the ball, no vapor, TH, nothing. I am getting better results from a 3.7v mechanical even when it's batts are almost at the drop-out voltage with the genesis.

I love the genesis, since even my badly built one is better than any of the atty, carto, or tank set-ups I've tried to date. I just want to vape it without putting the wear on the batts when I'm at my comp for hours at a time, that and my VV box is fussy, and the brass pipe weighs in at .63 lbs without the battery or atty. It was built for taking a beating and hurts like crazy when you knock it off the desk onto your foot 8-o

 

[asdaq]

Well somewhere you are getting extra resistance. The 12v setup also takes a drop, but starting at 12v you probably can't feel it as much. Also it would be good to check the Ω's along various segments of the circuit to narrow down where the problem lies, ie just the atty's resistance and then also the atty's resistance with the pt+ cable attached, and even Ω's of just the positive and negative runs between components. Somewhere there is something.

And a brass mod doesn't have to be so heavy.

 

[Gabe1291]

Ok, multi is back up and running.

The current coil is a 2.5ohm coil. With the genesis on the PT from the Molex connector forward I have a total resistance reading of 3.6 ohms total. So the PT, USB cable and Molex patch add about 1.1 ohms. The CE2's alone are 3ohms, and I get an overall read on it of 4.6. I get 1.1 ohms on the (+) wire from the molex to where power comes into the PT, and 1 ohm on the (-) wire, and a 0.1 ohm read on the closed switch.

That just seems to make even less sense to me considering the CE2's work just fine on this thing while my genesis is preforming horribly. Shouldn't it preform better than the CE2 considering these readings? The USB cable used for this was a 5' cable, now shorter due to splicing/cutting loss. Anything seem wrong in these numbers?

 

[asdaq]

Not really as actually a lower resistance coil is more demanding of current. The resistance in the coil works for you, and any added resistance works against you. If all things were equal, you could up the resistance on the genisis to 3Ω and it should perform like the CE2. But before doing something like that, could you check the coil's resistance at the posts, then at the connector and then individually from posts to connectors?

 

[Gabe1291]

Ok, I can do that easy enough

Post to post across the coil I get 2.4/2.5 ohms
At the connector I still get 2.4/2.5 ohms
From center pin to post I get 0.1/0.0 ohms
From threads to post I get 0.1/0.0 ohms as well

And a brass mod doesn't have to be so heavy.

I know I could have made it lighter, but I needed it as durable as possible to deal with what I put it through at work. It had a 35' fall out of my pocket onto concrete off the top of an autoclave at work I was calibrating a pressure regulator on. Got a few minor scratches, and broke the protection board in the 14500, but popped a spare battery in it, and it worked like a charm. THAT is why it's so heavy. It was the thickest brass pipe I could get

 

[asdaq]

Ok, the genisis is solid and you tried the staple trick so that is all reassuring, then I'd say try a 3Ω coil or replace the wiring in the cable for higher gauge. The coil is easier, but then it won't be as universal on the brass mod too. Maybe time to make a 2nd genisis?

When I was making my brass beast, I first used some 1.5mm wall tube for the battery section, but it was just too massive and terribly unbalanced. About half that was much better considering the length-- not good for a 35' fall, but much better on the foot. Or the bathroom floor.

 

[Gabe1291]

Well looks like trying to replace the cable is the only thing left to try then. I've already tried a bunch of different coils on it. I tried .5 ohms, 2ohms,4.5 ohms, 3.2, and even a 9 ohm one so far with similar results as far as vapor production on the PT.....with the exception of the 9 ohm coil, it didn't do crap on either one

I'll swing by the store and get some vinyl aquarium tubing to run some wire through to make my own cable for this thing. Would 22ga solid wire be beefy enough, or do I need something like 18g?

Thanks for you input and advice on this asdaq, if you or anybody else has any more ideas, let me know, and I'll update once I get the new cord for the PT made.

 

[asdaq]

Vinyl and solid core sounds stiff for a cable that should flex and be comfortable to use. Maybe cut the cord off some unwanted/dead AC appliance? 20-22 stranded ought to be fine, I'm not sure how much room there is to attach to a USB plug.

 

[Gabe1291]

Mebe, wasn't thinking about the two together, I know airline tubing is pretty soft stuff, so the idea was to use it to keep the wires together and not getting tangled.

I haven't killed any appliances recently, but I should be able to get a cheap extension cord at the dollar store easy enough, or I just had a thought. Would car speaker wire work for this? I've got a spool of that laying around here somewhere, and it's a nice stranded insulated pair.

 

[asdaq]

That would be great, I didn't think you'd have any. If it is on the spool it probably lists the gauge too, if not on the wire.

 

[Gabe1291]

That was the trick asdaq!

Swapped the wire from the cheap USB cable to 20ga stranded speaker wire, and now the Genesis is working like a charm on the PT. Wired it straight to the 4 pin Molex, only downside to that is the need for a Molex to USB connector if I ever want to use it on anything else, but not really a concern. This is strictly a desk PT PV for me anyway. It still has the voltage drop, but I guess the larger wire is letting it push more amps to the coil. Time to vape my head off now

So here are the pics, first up is the new assembly

New coil, 2 strands twisted together, 7 wraps topping the meter at 2 ohms

And this is what it does at 4.1v loaded, 5.04v unloaded

 

[asdaq]

Nice, just be gentle with your PSU, any shorts go straight to it. I would setup on the 14500 to make sure it is stable before using the PT. With a bit of doing you could take the pins out of the molex connector and solder the 20G wire straight to the pins and remove the black and red wire from the circuit.

 

[Gabe1291]

Eh, not too worried about it, when I built my computer I didn't skimp on the power supply. It's got the protections for shorts, over-voltage, and under-voltage built into it. Either way though, this atty has been tested on the mechanical when I wound it. I may throw in an inline fuse though just to be on the safe side, though I can safely say that I have done worse to this PSU in the past

I use it as a bench-top tester anyway since due to a design flaw in I made in the construction of the atty switch. If I screw the top cap all the way down with an atty on it, it constantly fires, so that works good for testing. I have a ring nut I use to stop it from going down that far in day to day use that also acts as a locking safety switch as well. Half a turn up, and the gap gets too big for the switch to fire, so if I spin the ring nut up to the cap, she's locked.

Here is a link to the PSU I have in the comp, it's a Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W - W0216. I had to build this computer to take the worst Inventor and Catia V5 could throw at it with my line of work

With a bit of doing you could take the pins out of the molex connector and solder the 20G wire straight to the pins and remove the black and red wire from the circuit.

I COULD, but not worth the effort at the moment, if or when the pins ever pull/fall out of the molex connector I might do that before I put them back in, but that part is all tucked away in the computer case now and I'm too lazy to fish it back out.