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Question about batteries.

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by H4X0R, Apr 17, 2016.

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  1. H4X0R

    H4X0R Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2014
    NM
    Hey guys! Me again back with another noob question for you beautiful people lol So, I have always used a device that was just a rechargeable pack, no interchangeable batteries whatsoever. So I was looking into maybe buying a good regulated mod but looks like most need batteries put into them, I have very little knowledge about different types of batteries, what the numbers mean, what brands are sketchy and which are reliable etc. Also, chargers and how to get the right one for that battery that won't overcharge them. So, can anyone point me to some threads that I can study or maybe give me some noob pointers? Thanks guys!
     
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  2. Cacique

    Cacique Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 4, 2014
    Orlando, FL
    I like the Sony VTC4, especially because I push 70-100w depending on my mood. There are other good ones. Best stick with brands like Sony, Samsung, LG. Something with 20-30A will work well for you depending on how high you're gonna push it. As for a charger, I really like and would recommend the Xtar VP4, but another good brand I read a lot about is Nitecore.

    I've used Illum for my batteries, but there are other trusted stores out there as well. Best to buy from the reputable stores to avoid any issues like getting clones, which is a more common things with popular batteries like the VTC4.
     
  3. Susan~S

    Susan~S ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 12, 2014
    Mpls/St.Paul, MN
    There are only a few battery manufacturers in the world who make their own "cells", including LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic & Sanyo.

    All the other brands on the market buy the second and third tier cells from those manufacturers and re-wrap them under their own brand. These are "second and/or third tier cells" which did not meet the higher standards of the original manufacturer. In order to compete with the original manufacturers' batteries (first tier), these other companies feel obligated to publish specifications which are inflated to make them appear superior to those of the original manufacturer.

    Do your research before you buy. Decide what battery to buy depending upon the application that you will use them.
    Here are links to some of @Mooch battery blogs:
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 7
  4. chinacatsunflower-

    chinacatsunflower- Senior Member

    Feb 23, 2016
    It all depends on what type of mod you're going to get (more specifically how many batteries it utilizes) and how many watts you're going to use. The main thing about battery safety, is to make sure that you don't draw more amps than what the batteries are rated for. I suggest reading extensively about batteries, and looking into the RX200. It utilizes three 18650's in series, which means it's a jack of all trades.. and a master of all.

    If you do buy the RX200 however, you need to buy an external charger as its onboard charging doesn't evenly charge the batteries. When using a mod you want to keep your batteries "married", which means they should always be charged and discharged together. They should never be used without the others, nor with any other battery.

    To calculate the amps drawn on a regulated mod it is Watts / Voltage (Your battery's voltage) = Amps. With an RX200 utilizing three batteries in series, this means that it combines their voltages which in turn reduces the amount of amps needed. Batteries cut off at 3.2 volts, and to safely calculate, you use the "worst case scenario". Which would be all of your batteries at 3.2 volts, (most people will drop it to 3 for inefficiencies). Also, for battery longevity and reduction of unnecessary heat generation, it's advised not to use more than 80% of your battery's continuous discharge rate.

    Let's say you're at 80 watts for this, example: 3x3=9, 80 watts / 9 volts = 8.88 amps drawn.
    • 8.88 amps is barely anything, three 20 amp continuous discharge batteries and you'd be good to
      go! I would suggest Sony VTC5's, LG HG2's, or Samsung 25r's. They are all capable 20 CDR batteries.
    Let's say you're at 160 watts for this, example: 3x3=9, 160 watts / 9 volts = 17.77 amps drawn.
    • 17.77 amps? Now that's a decent amount of amps! There's two 18650's which could handle this type of current in the 80% margin mentioned above without sacrificing battery life. These are the Sony VTC4's or the LG HD2's.
    These calculations are using the RX200 as an exmaple which uses three 18650's. Also, keep in mind that these examples are calculating for the worst possible scenario, when your batteries are at their most vulnerable. The average draw will be less, for example let's say your batteries are almost fully charged at 4v: 4x4=16, 80 watts / 16 volts = 5 amps drawn.

    I hope I've helped with this short summary, but really.. read read read!:

    Battery Information Table of Contents, Basic to Advanced
    Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum
    PSA: You Don't Calculate Current Draw on Regulated Mods Like You Do on Mech Mods • /r/electronic_cigarette
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. 7sixtwo

    7sixtwo Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 5, 2013
    the hinterlands
    I don't know if I'd recommend buying Sony VTC5's, (20A CDR, 2600 mah), in 2016. They're among the most expensive 18650's on the market, and don't really fill a needed role anymore, at least not for vaping. If you want a CDR >20A, you go with VTC4's, (or even VTC3's), and if you want greater battery life, you're better off with LG HG2's or Samsung 30Q's, each rated at 3000 mah to the VTC5's 2600.

    Ymmv.
     
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  6. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Pushing batteries past their rated limit can be hazardous. That applies to mechanical and regulated just the same. All 18650's are not created equal. The manufacturers of regulated mods should recommend a battery specification. See what that is and make sure the battery you buy meets that. Some of the people in the forum think it's also important to make sure that battery is made by a major manufacturer and is bought from a supplier who is known to have access to the authentic product, meaning they aren't selling rewrapped fakes. If that all sounds like too much buy mods with built in batteries from one of the prominent manufacturers like eLeaf or Joytech, etc.

    Beyond that don't push things to the limit. I run my mod at 30 max watts with a single cell rated at 20 amps. According to Watts law the maximum draw at the cut off voltage should be around 7 amps. The difference between 7 and 20 amps is sometimes called head space. It comforts me to have lots of head space.
     
  7. DavidAmonettNashville

    DavidAmonettNashville Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2014
    Nashville,Tn
    NEVER BUY ANY BATTERY THAT HAS "FIRE" IN THEIR NAME. (trustfire, surefire, truefire. Etc)
    Fire = Fire
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. H4X0R

    H4X0R Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2014
    NM
    Thanks guys for all of your answers! A lot of information! I will have to do extensive reading before jumping into a more complex mod, and I looked at different ones, and the RX200 sounds really good to me! Of course, I would have to do my reading on the batteries before even thinking about making a purchase. I like that the RX200 can go super low on resistance, AND has many temperature control settings. As far as the structure of the batteries, I read somewhere that there is such thing as a "safe chemistry" battery that has a much less violent vent if worse comes to worse. The mod I am using right now has non removable Li-Po batteries, 19500s. I was told that Li-Po packs have the worst and most violent explosions and venting if used improperly. So what is a "safe" type of battery that would be trustable not to blow half my face off in the worst case scenario? (Of course, I would think by that point I know how to avoid doing stupid things with it lol)
     
  9. crisisady

    crisisady Full Member Verified Member

    Mar 11, 2016
    I strongly recommend LG HG2. It supports up to 20A and it has 3000mAh. Unless you are vaping above 100W, this LG batteries should serve you quite well.

    And the reason why I didnt get Sony VTC is because there are many counterfeits on the market.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. rice721

    rice721 1.21 GigaWatts! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 26, 2016
    Shanghai
    LG HG2s is what I have in my rx200 as well.

    As stated 20amp 3000mah battery strikes a nice balance.

    Check out this 18650 battery review on vaping360 by fellow member Mooch.

    My rule of thumb for 18650 batteries is I stick with a reputable vendor that carries the Big 3: LG, Samsung, Sony. I like LG & Samsung b/c they are less counterfeited.

    As for charger these 3 brands are popular and trusted. Xtar, Efest, Nitecore. Personally I have the Xtar and Nitecore (4 bays) and they work great, prefer the Xtar b/c it charges at 1 amp when you only have 1 battery in there (faster).
     
  11. Georgie-1-Lung

    Georgie-1-Lung Full Member

    Apr 18, 2016
    New York
    Love to see that you want to learn about your batteries before using them. I run into WAY TOO Many ppl that have no clue about batteries. Mooch is a wonderful resource as well as Batteryuniversity - ΩΩΩ
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. OhTheAgony

    OhTheAgony Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2011
    Netherlands
    Since you're still in the research-phase, I suggest you have a look at mods with build in batteries as well, there are a few really nice ones out there.

    Most if not all the recent models are listed in the thread I linked you to. I'm currently looking at the Cuboid mini and Athena Envy 22 myself and I absolutely love my Evic VT.

    Good luck on your search!
     
  13. chinacatsunflower-

    chinacatsunflower- Senior Member

    Feb 23, 2016
    I personally will never buy a mod that has an internal battery. It's not if the batteries go bad, it is when, and when it does you're stuck buying an entirely new mod instead of just a couple new batteries.

    I honestly don't trust built in batteries, the vaping experience is all about controlling what you want out of it. Batteries, coil builds, different juices, different wicks, while batteries don't directly affect the experience of your vape.. you need a battery to vape!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. OhTheAgony

    OhTheAgony Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2011
    Netherlands
    I've heard that argument before but frankly that's just nonsense. I've replaced build in batteries in several devices before, it's not difficult at all unless the device is completely glued together perhaps.

    & no offense intended but I think many vaporist are stuck to their old habits and tech too much. The need to control everything yourself to get a good result is pretty much outdated with how quickly the technology develops nowadays. Of course you still need a proper coil to match the results you're after as well as a good working wick, but electronics have improved so much in the last few years. Temperature control is a very good example of that, it takes care of many variables for you which makes vaping much simpler and enjoyable imo.
     
  15. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Mooch's blog articles on batteries are excellent! :thumb:

    Here are a couple more that I have written:

    Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
    • A popular and essential read to understand which batteries are safe to use in mechanical and regulated mods. Includes a frequently updated list of recommended safe-chemistry, high-drain batteries with their specifications.
    Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1
    • For those who want to learn the differences between IMR, IMR/hybrid, ICR, and LiPo batteries. What do those numbers and letters on batteries mean? What's an amp rating and why is it more important than the mAh rating when choosing a battery for vaping?

    Guide to Choosing a Li-ion Battery Charger

    • Guide to help a novice in choosing a charger. Covers recommended brands; suggestions for the number of charging bays you'll need, discusses what independent charging bays are, LED and Liquid Crystal Display models, and "smart chargers".
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. chinacatsunflower-

    chinacatsunflower- Senior Member

    Feb 23, 2016
    I respectfully disagree, while technology has advanced, my main point still stands. Especially for vapers such as the OP who are only now starting out. He won't be able to replace an internal battery, he'll be learning about all other things related to vaping in the next few months.

    While technology is pretty great, it will always have limits. Being able to control everything you have the knowledge to control, such as batteries, coils, wicking, the ingredients in your juice, all of that to me is incredibly important. I would much rather have control over everything myself instead of relying on technology to suit and produce my vaping experience for me.

    In my humble opinion, someone's vaping experience will always be unmatched if they take the time to learn and do everything themselves. If they have the knowledge and therefore control if they wish it, over everything we use as vapers. Compared to relying on technology to do it all for them.

    With advanced technology, comes ignorance. The more it does for you, the less the user is inclined to learn.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  17. tj99959

    tj99959 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Aug 13, 2011
    utah
    And if you would like to see the result of advanced technology in action, just hand a young person a phone book.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. H4X0R

    H4X0R Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2014
    NM
    Thanks guys! And thanks Baditude! When I get the down time, i'll give all of those a read! :D Side question, is there a such thing as over charging a mod? My Tesla Two has built in batteries and is just a chargeable box. Is there any harm to charging it over night while I sleep? The device takes like, 3 hours or so to charge when low.
     
  19. chinacatsunflower-

    chinacatsunflower- Senior Member

    Feb 23, 2016
    Yes there is, and it is advised that you do not charge your mod or batteries while sleeping. They should always be in an area where you can periodically check on them. Overcharging batteries results in unnecessary heat generation and in turn results in decrease of battery longevity, and other complications such as potential fires / explosion. The longer it overcharges, the more that risk increases.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. H4X0R

    H4X0R Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2014
    NM
    Cool thanks! I'll unplug it then ad finish charging it tomorrow, thanks again!
     
    • Like Like x 1
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