Question for those who think we should not vape where we can not smoke...

[Robino1]

Do you truly not support EU fights against bans due to one member whose tactics you disagree with?

Anja is loud, she does call people names, she dismisses dissimilar viewpoints. These are fair criticisms. But she is a veteran of a vaping conflict in Europe, I am thankful for her passionate efforts.

You can say she represents EU vapors poorly, but you cannot say that she represents herself poorly.

I believe she represents herself just as she is. Brash, in-your-face, unapologetic for her cause. Maybe she could tone it down and be more effective, but maybe her (and others like her) "fire and brimstone" approach is what has preserved vaping freedoms and checked the EU regulatory efforts thus far.

In any case, I hope you will reconsider your support for EU. I have supported it from here in the US when I can with petitions, etc. Your fight there is our fight here. I stand with you and your right to vape in any manner you choose, so long as it is your choice. I even respect your decision not to participate if that is your ultimate choice.

Very well said.
If I have a problem with how a member expresses their views, I can choose to ignore said person. One person out of thousands shouldn't affect whether or not to fight for a product that has the potential to effectively and safely deliver nicotine to thousands upon thousands of current smokers.

Both sides have passion for what they believe, which can translate to zealotness (new word ). The other side, the one we are fighting, uses lies in their fight. We must arm ourselves with truth to fight them. In order for the truth to get noticed, sometimes requires an in your face approach. Sometimes it's affective to state simple facts with links or information to back those facts up. It depends on the person reading these posts.

One person may take offense to how a poster conducts themselves, while another person may get fired up and decide to help by reading that same post. If you are offended, ignore is a feature that allows you, as an individual, to censor what YOU see while allowing the poster to still have their individual style of expression.

 

[AttyPops]

TLDR.

@DC2
Your premise is well made and taken. However the equivalency of "don't vape where you can't smoke" and the implied willingness to allow draconian anti-smoking rules falls short.

In other words: Even though I no longer smoke, I don't forfeit my rights to smoke in my own car, or outdoors, or on a beach (anywhere outdoors for that matter...I'm willing to stay away from entrances and pay attention to gas leaks...etc). So my attitude is more common sense than common compliance.

To me, "Don't vape where you wouldn't smoke" doesn't apply to a beach. Or even a rental unit. I think it's more about businesses that we frequent than it is about compliance with draconian rules.

Besides, the rule isn't "Never vape if smoking is banned here"...the rule is..."ask first". Basically, politeness and common sense. Outdoors is implied as OK, as far as I know.

 

[bluecat]

Are you aware that smoking restrictions are getting increasingly draconian?
I can only imagine this fact has at some point come to your attention.

Sometimes it seems that perhaps some of you don't mind or don't care.
I hope I'm wrong, but as I said, it does sometimes seem that way.

I don't mind and I don't care. As I have stated before vaping now 1.5 years, i smoked for 30ish. I personally like going somewhere and not having the smoke bother me. I like enjoying dinner without smoke or vapor. Personally I feel if you can't spend 1 hour without having your binkey attached you have more problems than nicotine addiction.

So, do you also support the idea of not being able to vape in public parks and on public beaches?
The Real Motivation Behind Park And Beach Smoking Bans - Forbes[/URL

No I do not. I think public should be free for the whole public.



How about bans that include entire college campuses, including the parking lot in your own car?
Or entire hospital campuses, including the parking lot in your own car?

I think they are crazy draconian in nature. They people who instituted them should be canned and drug through the streets.


Or are you willing to concede those injustices as well?

No not at all. I believe in being courteous. We should all try it. Get away from mememememememememe...


And if so, does that include also these restrictions?
Or is that where you will finally draw a line?

[URL="http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/SFMUH_Roadmap_FINAL_20130617.pdf"]Smoke-Free Multi-Unit Housing
Additional Resources to Help You Implement Smokefree Housing Policies | ChangeLab Solutions
How Landlords Can Prohibit Smoking in Rental Housing | ChangeLab Solutions
How to Make a Condo Complex Smokefree | ChangeLab Solutions
Creating Smokefree Policies for Affordable Housing in California | ChangeLab Solutions

Will admit I didn't read all that so I won't comment on it. It's California though.... won't go into details other than Pelosi and Feinstein have been elected to office how long there? That is the trouble with a lot of these lifers in the house and senate. My own Boehner included.


This is not a rhetorical question.

I really want to know where those of you who ascribe to this "do not vape where you can not smoke" philosophy stand on these questions.
And more importantly, I want to know if you are prepared to fight against the entire idea of equating vaping to smoking.

I think I pretty stated where I stated. I think many vapers are too caught up in the "you can't take my rights" away that they are losing sight of the common courtesy for their fellow man/woman.

On that, I think the government is overstepping its bounds to very dangerous degrees. Be it smoking, vaping, salt, 32 ounce soda or whatever.

If an establishment wishes to allow smoking/ vaping then it should be allowed to, period end of story. You as an individual can then make an informed decision whether or not to enter. If you cannot make an informed decision on that, then you have problems a society cannot cure.

Bah added to your quote. Dang sorry about that and have to get back to work will try to clean it up later

 

[DrillRX]

Are you aware that smoking restrictions are getting increasingly draconian?
I can only imagine this fact has at some point come to your attention.

Sometimes it seems that perhaps some of you don't mind or don't care.
I hope I'm wrong, but as I said, it does sometimes seem that way.


So, do you also support the idea of not being able to vape in public parks and on public beaches?
The Real Motivation Behind Park And Beach Smoking Bans - Forbes



How about bans that include entire college campuses, including the parking lot in your own car?
Or entire hospital campuses, including the parking lot in your own car?


Or are you willing to concede those injustices as well?


And if so, does that include also these restrictions?
Or is that where you will finally draw a line?

Smoke-Free Multi-Unit Housing
Additional Resources to Help You Implement Smokefree Housing Policies | ChangeLab Solutions
How Landlords Can Prohibit Smoking in Rental Housing | ChangeLab Solutions
How to Make a Condo Complex Smokefree | ChangeLab Solutions
Creating Smokefree Policies for Affordable Housing in California | ChangeLab Solutions


This is not a rhetorical question.

I really want to know where those of you who ascribe to this "do not vape where you can not smoke" philosophy stand on these questions.
And more importantly, I want to know if you are prepared to fight against the entire idea of equating vaping to smoking.

I'm not sure if I have any direct answers to your questions, only my own observations. Take them how you must.

I was a twenty year smoker (pack a day), and quit the habit as of January 2013. Since I have quit I cannot count the times I have been stuck in traffic with other people who were smoking…in their car…several cars away in some cases where I was literally becoming ill from the smell and had no way to escape it. It really opened my eyes to why people complained about smoking in cars when before I quit, I thought it was just some muggle non smoker complaining again.

Just yesterday me and my family were leaving the movies and couldn't avoid the large crowd that had accumulated outside the theater, who were smoking it up, creating a very large cloud of nasty cigarette smoke that everyone in the theater had to exit through….including the children. Yes they were outside in an area that was not designated non smoking but do you really think they should smoke right there, where it affects everyone who pass through? I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose to annoy or just to say "i'm smoking here because I can and there's nothing you can do about it". They probably had no idea, or did not realize the situation.

There is a certain amount of decency that needs to be addressed and people need to understand that they can't push things on others that may affect the way others perceive what we do, and why we do it.

I understand your point about keeping our right to vape, and really don't have a strait answer to those questions you posed, but to say that people should be sensitive and respectful to others….on both sides. For our right to vape, and for their right to not be affected by it if they wish not to be. I guess that's why laws are made? Because for some reason or another, people are not able or not willing to respect other people?


LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!!..

 

[tj99959]

 

[zoiDman]

I really don't care tbh, but lean towards taking a step outside to have a vape. It helps me manage my habit and I get too avoid public debates over decency. Double win.

This is Refreshing to Hear.

Seems like there are Always 99 People who are Stamping their Feet Demanding for their "Right" to Vape where they want to. And only 1 or Maybe 2 who take your approach.

 

[DC2]

Seems like there are Always 99 People who are Stamping their Feet Demanding for their "Right" to Vape where they want to. And only 1 or Maybe 2 who take your approach.

Depends on which thread you read, and how the thread starts off.

I was reading a thread where you would think everybody was more than willing to be told when and where to vape.
In fact, it was that thread that inspired me to make this thread.

 

[zoiDman]

Depends on which thread you read, and how the thread starts off.

I was reading a thread where you would think everybody was more than willing to be told when and where to vape.
In fact, it was that thread that inspired me to make this thread.

I think the words that Caught My Eye were... "It helps me manage my habit..."

 

[mare ze dotes]

Yes I fully agree. With reference to the squeaking sounds made by the little-mouse vapers.

<------ You talk'in to me?

I don't usually get into debates but in my mousy politics it says that you should not vape if it is going to bother your fellow litter mates or they will come steal your peanut. On the other paw, I stealth rather good.( I am a little mouse) What they don't know wont hurt them.

Just to share... I used to chain smoke all day at home in my rental unit. The neighbors were complaing about the smell, what made me concerned it that it was getting into the wonderful little old ladys apt across the hall. She could smell it. I felt bad about that. Now that I vape I can say that is less polluting than a scented candle.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I keep hearing 'decency' in this thread. I hear this term used a lot in this forum whenever this topic comes up. I want to clarify what that is, because to me what is decent may not be decent to you. So I have a few questions about it. Honestly, I am not trying to flame anyone, I just want to understand the perspective/meaning intended from a word that has multiple meanings for different people, and the implications of its use.

Does it mean that if your definition of 'decency' is not met, then those not meeting it are indecent people, or are their actions indecent?
Are the youths smoking near the movie theater entrance indecent?
Am I indecent because I vape in the indoor common area of a large, two-story mall? I vaped openly but not flamboyantly. I took in one large draw, held it for a while (a bit longer than usual) and breathed out. I did so because I did not wish to take three or four puffs while walking down the middle of the mall. I was not trying to "blow a huge cloud", but I was not trying to hide it either. Does my choice make me less 'decent'?

 

[B1sh0p]

It's really not that complicated.

I don't like wearing shirts in the summer and I like to swear. When I enter a store, I put my shirt on and when I'm around children, I don't swear. Neither of these activities are dangerous, but society has deemed them inappropriate in certain settings. The foundation of coexistence is built on sacrifices that we all make, no matter how small.

I like to vape and it's part of my lifestyle. However, it's not so important that I'm comfortable with making others uncomfortable. This isn't a "war."


de·cen·cy
ˈdēsənsē/
noun
1.
behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability.
"she had the decency to come and confess"

 

[boog]

addicts always have weird ways of reasoning with their addiction

 

[zoiDman]

It's really not that complicated.

I don't like wearing shirts in the summer and I like to swear. When I enter a store, I put my shirt on and when I'm around children, I don't swear. Neither of these activities are dangerous, but society has deemed them inappropriate in certain settings. The foundation of coexistence is built on sacrifices that we all make, no matter how small.

I like to vape and it's part of my lifestyle. However, it's not so important that I'm comfortable with making others uncomfortable. This isn't a "war."


de·cen·cy
ˈdēsənsē/
noun
1.
behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability.
"she had the decency to come and confess"

Very Well put B1sh0p.

 

[zoiDman]

addicts always have weird ways of reasoning with their addiction

Something tells me this Might be a Good Time to dust off your Flame-Proof Suit.

People around hear don't like to hear the "A" Word.

LOL

 

[Orb Skewer]

If you are confident enough to stand by the conviction that sucking it up and directly inhaling it into your own lungs is doing you no harm, then you should be confident to stand by the conviction that a bystander is perfectly safe in your vicinity........

Unless you have your own doubts.

 

[Anjaffm]

@Orb Skewer:
no use wasting your time on those miserable addicts, i.e. on those who consider themselves to be miserable addicts (see higher on this page, among other places).

They like it that way.

.. oh, do remind me to tell you the joke about "this is hell for the xxx. They like it that way"

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

I step outside to vape during work because my brain was hardwired to combine smoking and a break away from my office together. When a strong cigarette craving hits, I found that it isn't the cigarette I necessarily want, it's the break and the excuse to step out that I want. So, I often vape with the smokers who smoke. I've converted a couple of smokers this way actually. There is absolutely nothing political about it, and I don't see why where EVERYONE vapes needs to be a political statement of some kind. When I do vape inside, I stealth vape. Again, there's no political statement I'm making. I'm not trying to thumb my nose at Bloomberg and his cronies by vaping indoors, nor am I ashamed of vaping. I stealth vape because my boss, a former smoker himself, told me to. There is no company policy on vaping at any of our centers and we both agree there shouldn't be one for now. I'm not the only one in the office who vapes, and in the interest of those clients who vape, it would be best that there is no reason to create a company policy on vaping.

Regardless of being what I guess would be called a little mousy vaper, I have written, and will continue to write to my representatives about lifting the ban on vaping in NYC. I have attended and will continue to attend council meetings. I have and will continue to call my representatives. Like it or not, accept it or not, but this mousy vaper is, indeed, on your politcal side regarding vaping and yes, smoking outdoors at beaches and parks. Smoking in court houses, hospitals and other public buildings is another matter and in my mind, a completely separate debate regarding a completely separate activity that has completely separate consequences then vaping does. As such, I don't quite understand the desire to get into bed with Big Tobacco and their paid scientists by including the smoking ban on analogs in our battle.

 

[bluecat]

If you are confident enough to stand by the conviction that sucking it up and directly inhaling it into your own lungs is doing you no harm, then you should be confident to stand by the conviction that a bystander is perfectly safe in your vicinity........

Unless you have your own doubts.

Reality is.. no one knows. Maybe in 30-60-90 years we may know.

It doesn't matter if it safe or not. Offensive can mean many things that is not related to the word "harmful".

 

[B1sh0p]

@Orb Skewer:
no use wasting your time on those miserable addicts, i.e. on those who consider themselves to be miserable addicts (see higher on this page, among other places).

They like it that way.

.. oh, do remind me to tell you the joke about "this is hell for the xxx. They like it that way"

Are you really incapable of having a discussion without juvenile ad hominem attacks? It's truly bizarre.

 

[EddardinWinter]

It's really not that complicated.

I don't like wearing shirts in the summer and I like to swear. When I enter a store, I put my shirt on and when I'm around children, I don't swear. Neither of these activities are dangerous, but society has deemed them inappropriate in certain settings. The foundation of coexistence is built on sacrifices that we all make, no matter how small.

I like to vape and it's part of my lifestyle. However, it's not so important that I'm comfortable with making others uncomfortable. This isn't a "war."


de·cen·cy
ˈdēsənsē/
noun
1.
behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability.
"she had the decency to come and confess"

Thanks for the Webster's. If I was looking for that, I would have just gone to their website.

I was more looking for answers to my specific questions, since I took the time to write them out. I suppose they were too complicated. You see, I think wearing a nice golf shirt to church is fine, some people think anything less than a suit is an insult to God. My decency is not their decency.