First time posting here. God said that reading the book of revelation he will bless you. We can't just preach love all the time. We have to be shook up a little. God does love us. He wants us to know what lies ahead. Through prophecy I became a Christain. The world is falling apart and people is searching to find out what is going on. We need to tell them. Yes we need to love people and we need to tell them who Christ is. And not just the love love love stuff. Lisa you put it well. All so Satan does't want unbelivers to know the truth, and well do his best to stop it. WE need to always decern why someone would not want the truth told. Angel I know this will make you mad but that pic you have there, well I have a hard time taking you serious, you need some clothes on. If we want to be a christain then maybe we should look like one. We repersent Christ.
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Hi Simply me. Welcome to the forum.
No, it doesn't make me mad. Someone else made mention of my photo very recently. Until then, I hadn't really thought much about it. It was an old picture of me that I used as a profile pic years ago. Because I am smoking in it, I thought it was a good choice for a (electronic) cigarette forum. I never believed there should be any shame in the bodies God gave us. Vulgarity or pornography is a different matter. The photo is neither. If anyone saw pornography, I reasoned that the problem was in their heart and not my photo. When it was first suggested that I change it, I reasoned (again with the reasoning) that it might be a good thing to show that being Christian doesn't mean you have to be a stuffy prude.
Then this passage came to mind.
Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. Romans 14:19-21
I know it is talking about food. But I think it can apply to anything that arouses hungers that someone is struggling to control. The thing itself is not bad, but could remind someone of something that is bad and lead them down an ungood path. So even though my photo may not be a problem for me and is OK with my conscious, I ought to be aware that it could be a problem for others.
This thread has been about the message being lost in the delivery. I see where someone might be too distracted looking at my whatevers, to hear what I am trying to say.
Thank you for your post, and again, welcome to the forum.
Be well,
~A
Well, I've thought about this, prayed about this.......for days and I keep coming up with the same thing. Sorry guys, I can't back down on this. To do so, for me, would be compromising the word of God, giving up a part of my faith, disobeying God by not sounding the trumpet of warning, and I just can't do that. I made a vow to God that I would live for Him and be faithful to Him in all things, until the very end, even if I"m standing alone.
Like I said before, these are difficult times we live in now, and you ain't seen nothing yet. Things are going to happen that are going to blow you away. Things are going to happen that will fool and deceive most of the world. Things are going to happen that will test your own faith, and many will fall away. Things are going to happen that you can't even wrap your head around right now. If you're uncomfortable discussing these things now, with God's help, in a little christian forum, how are you going to be able to face real persecution and tribulation when it comes? And, it is coming. You won't even discuss it out of fear that someone might get a detail wrong, or someone might think you're crazy?
How will you explain "strange events" that are happening in the world to unbelievers and also to other christians if you're not willing to talk about it? Look, you can't keep your head buried in the sand pretending that everything is fine and nothing is happening. If you want to do that, you're just fooling yourself and in denial, and you aren't prepared to face the tough questions that people are asking. Do you want to be found with no explanation and no answer to these questions and these people who are asking them?
There are a huge amount of unbelievers that read these threads. It is vitally important to watch the news, the news that the whole world is watching, and search out the scriptures in an attempt to find answers to these things that are now happening. If the answers are not clear, God will make it clearer, but atleast you're trying and not just pretending that nothing is happening! Sorry, I'm not going to pretend! I'm for real, and I'll say what I feel I should say, even if most people don't agree with me because come judgment day I'll be standing by myself and at the very least I'll be able to say that I tried, I did the very best that I could, I didn't shy away from the tough questions, I searched, I prayed, I studied, and gave it 100% effort. Maybe I was wrong sometimes, but I still gave it my best shot, and that's what He asks from us. He does not expect us to be 100% correct or perfect, He asks us to give it our best shot, 100% honest effort, and no holding back. And that's what I'm doing.
I'm a member of a HUGE forum online, I mean several million page views per day. All kinds of crazy topics there, mostly unbelievers and just a tiny handful of christians. Let me tell you people, that many many people are experiencing things that are crazy. People are being attacked by demons. People are being visited by "aliens" which are demons in disguise. People are having dreams and visions. People are contacting spirit guides, mediums, and watching the planets and the stars and seeing strange sights in the skys. These people are asking questions, they want to know what is happening to them and the world around us. They are looking for answers to their very real experiences and questions. They are seeking help and understanding and if Christians aren't there to guide them to Jesus and the bible, then they are lost and there is a whole big satan's army of others out there, waiting to answer their questions with lies and deception and lead them astray.
I watch it happen every single day, hundreds of times per day. Thousands of posters, millions of posts, but just a tiny handful of faithful christians there trying to catch people as they are falling. I call it Jesus's Rescue Team, and I'm part of that team.
So, while you guys want to sit here and share lollipops and gumdrops, there are other Christians out there that take their mission seriously. Jesus said “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." For me, being a christian and taking up my cross does not mean being a member in a social group. It's about working hard to try and win souls for Jesus and save people. I take that job very seriously.
Have I done a perfect job? Of course not! Do I ever say something wrong, or get something wrong? Of course I do! Do I sometimes get frustrated or angry! Of course I do! Will I ever understand everything in the bible exactly 100% correct with no mistakes? Of course I won't! Do I screw up on a daily basis? Of course I do! I'm a human being! But, with constant prayer and study, I do the best that I can, and with the help of the Holy Spirit through prayer, understanding will come, and much already has. So, I don't keep my mouth shut and hide away for fear that I might say the wrong thing, because I have 100% faith that God will give me the words, and He does. God also knows who His people are, He knows who's heart is seeking answers, and He will and can lead that person to the right one that will show him and teach Him. He also knows who needs special kind of instruction, and He will lead that one to another person. God is always in control, He knows everything and all, there is nothing hidden from Him, and He leads people to one place or another according to their needs. So, nothing you can say, right or wrong, will stop His perfect will from being done if you are seeking Him and praying for guidance and understanding. To believe otherwise, is a lack of faith.
There isn't much more I can say now other then I love you guys dearly, I really do. If my words are coming across as harsh, I"m sorry for that, but those that know me also know that I'm honest and I just call it like I see it, no candy coating and if I can't be honest with my own brothers and sisters, who can I be open with then?
So, that's where I'm at, and I'm not going to debate it, or defend it. I've read all the posts, and I already know where most of you are coming from, and that's fine as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, it doesn't work for me and my purpose. So, it's probably best that I just say thanks for the memories and leave it at that and let you guys talk about what you want to talk about without further interruption.
Doesn't mean that I don't love you guys, I absolutely do! Doesn't mean that I'm angry or resentful, because I"m not. I just feel that there are more important things to do out there, and I feel the urgency to spend my time doing those things.
Like I said before, these are difficult times we live in now, and you ain't seen nothing yet. Things are going to happen that are going to blow you away. Things are going to happen that will fool and deceive most of the world. Things are going to happen that will test your own faith, and many will fall away. Things are going to happen that you can't even wrap your head around right now. If you're uncomfortable discussing these things now, with God's help, in a little christian forum, how are you going to be able to face real persecution and tribulation when it comes? And, it is coming. You won't even discuss it out of fear that someone might get a detail wrong, or someone might think you're crazy?
How will you explain "strange events" that are happening in the world to unbelievers and also to other christians if you're not willing to talk about it? Look, you can't keep your head buried in the sand pretending that everything is fine and nothing is happening. If you want to do that, you're just fooling yourself and in denial, and you aren't prepared to face the tough questions that people are asking. Do you want to be found with no explanation and no answer to these questions and these people who are asking them?
There are a huge amount of unbelievers that read these threads. It is vitally important to watch the news, the news that the whole world is watching, and search out the scriptures in an attempt to find answers to these things that are now happening. If the answers are not clear, God will make it clearer, but atleast you're trying and not just pretending that nothing is happening! Sorry, I'm not going to pretend! I'm for real, and I'll say what I feel I should say, even if most people don't agree with me because come judgment day I'll be standing by myself and at the very least I'll be able to say that I tried, I did the very best that I could, I didn't shy away from the tough questions, I searched, I prayed, I studied, and gave it 100% effort. Maybe I was wrong sometimes, but I still gave it my best shot, and that's what He asks from us. He does not expect us to be 100% correct or perfect, He asks us to give it our best shot, 100% honest effort, and no holding back. And that's what I'm doing.
I'm a member of a HUGE forum online, I mean several million page views per day. All kinds of crazy topics there, mostly unbelievers and just a tiny handful of christians. Let me tell you people, that many many people are experiencing things that are crazy. People are being attacked by demons. People are being visited by "aliens" which are demons in disguise. People are having dreams and visions. People are contacting spirit guides, mediums, and watching the planets and the stars and seeing strange sights in the skys. These people are asking questions, they want to know what is happening to them and the world around us. They are looking for answers to their very real experiences and questions. They are seeking help and understanding and if Christians aren't there to guide them to Jesus and the bible, then they are lost and there is a whole big satan's army of others out there, waiting to answer their questions with lies and deception and lead them astray.
I watch it happen every single day, hundreds of times per day. Thousands of posters, millions of posts, but just a tiny handful of faithful christians there trying to catch people as they are falling. I call it Jesus's Rescue Team, and I'm part of that team.
So, while you guys want to sit here and share lollipops and gumdrops, there are other Christians out there that take their mission seriously. Jesus said “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." For me, being a christian and taking up my cross does not mean being a member in a social group. It's about working hard to try and win souls for Jesus and save people. I take that job very seriously.
Have I done a perfect job? Of course not! Do I ever say something wrong, or get something wrong? Of course I do! Do I sometimes get frustrated or angry! Of course I do! Will I ever understand everything in the bible exactly 100% correct with no mistakes? Of course I won't! Do I screw up on a daily basis? Of course I do! I'm a human being! But, with constant prayer and study, I do the best that I can, and with the help of the Holy Spirit through prayer, understanding will come, and much already has. So, I don't keep my mouth shut and hide away for fear that I might say the wrong thing, because I have 100% faith that God will give me the words, and He does. God also knows who His people are, He knows who's heart is seeking answers, and He will and can lead that person to the right one that will show him and teach Him. He also knows who needs special kind of instruction, and He will lead that one to another person. God is always in control, He knows everything and all, there is nothing hidden from Him, and He leads people to one place or another according to their needs. So, nothing you can say, right or wrong, will stop His perfect will from being done if you are seeking Him and praying for guidance and understanding. To believe otherwise, is a lack of faith.
There isn't much more I can say now other then I love you guys dearly, I really do. If my words are coming across as harsh, I"m sorry for that, but those that know me also know that I'm honest and I just call it like I see it, no candy coating and if I can't be honest with my own brothers and sisters, who can I be open with then?
So, that's where I'm at, and I'm not going to debate it, or defend it. I've read all the posts, and I already know where most of you are coming from, and that's fine as everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, it doesn't work for me and my purpose. So, it's probably best that I just say thanks for the memories and leave it at that and let you guys talk about what you want to talk about without further interruption.
Doesn't mean that I don't love you guys, I absolutely do! Doesn't mean that I'm angry or resentful, because I"m not. I just feel that there are more important things to do out there, and I feel the urgency to spend my time doing those things.
Hi Lisa,
I'm not going to do the "reply with quote" thing for your whole post. (see LisaLisa's post above) We certainly are a bunch of writers on this forum!
While I was reading your post just now, something came to me. God put it on my heart to make my OP. He also put it on your heart to say what you said. There are people out there reading our posts that will be receptive to the way I say things, and not like the way you write. There are people out there that will listen to you and ignore me. He needs each of us to reach those people, me one way, and you another. That is why He told us to do things that appear to be in opposition! We are in harmony if we are both doing the will of God. We just have different jobs to do.
It's not about us. It's about Him and about many different people coming to Him.
~A
I'm not going to do the "reply with quote" thing for your whole post. (see LisaLisa's post above) We certainly are a bunch of writers on this forum!
While I was reading your post just now, something came to me. God put it on my heart to make my OP. He also put it on your heart to say what you said. There are people out there reading our posts that will be receptive to the way I say things, and not like the way you write. There are people out there that will listen to you and ignore me. He needs each of us to reach those people, me one way, and you another. That is why He told us to do things that appear to be in opposition! We are in harmony if we are both doing the will of God. We just have different jobs to do.
It's not about us. It's about Him and about many different people coming to Him.
~A
Again, no one is saying that topics can't be brought up and discussed. No one is asking that people be censored. No one is being told that certain topics are off limits.
If the thread titles could be written in less sensational ways, it would lend more credibility to the topic. Is that really so difficult? Angel changed her avatar pic, we can certainly temper a few titles.
And, I will confess that I don't believe stories about aliens and demons and apocolyptic horses. I don't believe we are in the end days now anymore so than anytime in history. I know I am not alone on that. I believe from what is written in the Bible, that God will come for his flock when He chooses. Might be in my lifetime, might not.
It isn't really up to me, I can't make it happen now or later. I prefer to spend my time doing positive things in the here and now for people, animals, and our environment - where the impact is felt now. The future is not mine to know. Insulting people and then hiding behind a superiority complex and some Bible verses does not win most people over. If the message isn't sent in a way that the audience can understand and relate to it, at least on some level, then the message will never get through. I don't see the value in that at all.
Oh, and in no way do I see where Jesus was ever in panic mode. Jesus said what he had to say, did what he had to do, and did it in a very well thought out manner. The plan was already laid out, and he executed the will of his Father.
If the thread titles could be written in less sensational ways, it would lend more credibility to the topic. Is that really so difficult? Angel changed her avatar pic, we can certainly temper a few titles.
And, I will confess that I don't believe stories about aliens and demons and apocolyptic horses. I don't believe we are in the end days now anymore so than anytime in history. I know I am not alone on that. I believe from what is written in the Bible, that God will come for his flock when He chooses. Might be in my lifetime, might not.
It isn't really up to me, I can't make it happen now or later. I prefer to spend my time doing positive things in the here and now for people, animals, and our environment - where the impact is felt now. The future is not mine to know. Insulting people and then hiding behind a superiority complex and some Bible verses does not win most people over. If the message isn't sent in a way that the audience can understand and relate to it, at least on some level, then the message will never get through. I don't see the value in that at all.
Oh, and in no way do I see where Jesus was ever in panic mode. Jesus said what he had to say, did what he had to do, and did it in a very well thought out manner. The plan was already laid out, and he executed the will of his Father.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have any ill will or bitterness towards lisa, I hope she doesn't have any towards me.
Lisa, there still seems to be an apparent disconnect. Nowhere has anyone in this thread or any of the other threads, asked that you, or anyone stop discussing end times issues. Nowhere, has anyone, asked that you never bring up end times issues. Yet, every time you respond to someone, you respond by saying you're not going to stop discussing end times.... but nobody has asked you to stop discussing end times.
The only "issue" here is the HOW. I wouldn't continue this discussion with you if I didn't think that God could use you in a greater capacity than he already is. That's precisely WHY I'm continuing. You have a boldness in speaking of God and scripture in a way that is very rare nowadays, and I admire you for it. BUT there is a fine line between being unashamedly bold for God, and being reckless.
You know the scripture as well as I do. What ELSE does God warn in the last days? He warns that there will be many false prophets who will deceive even the very elect. If we aren't careful to gage everything... even events that we think may be of God, with a dose of skepticism...yes SKEPTICISM.... we will be setting ourselves up to fulfill scripture as we could easily become part of those elect who, though saved, could be deceived in some way or another. What is worse is that we would have the potential of pointing believers in the wrong direction. None of us want that either.
When you saw the "sign" over the dome of the rock, you "assumed" that thousands had witnessed it when none had except for the people who took the "video" of it. When it was pointed out through analysis that the video was fake, you rejected it. When it was pointed out that thousands had in fact, NOT witnessed the event when thousands should have were it real, you seemed to reject that too and you and others tried to find a way to make what you saw line up with what is written in scripture.
You know satan and the antichrist will try to deceive. You admit the government will try to deceive us. If you know all these forces are going to try to deceive us... why make it so easy for them? If we, as believers, don't exercise a healthy dose of skepticism which gives us time for cooler heads and proper discernment, how will we ourselves not be deceived? If we are so eagerly looking for the truth that we stumble over a lie, how much worse those un-believers who might be looking to us for guidance?
All anyone is saying is... CAUTION.
You are right... God DOES want Christians... God does want YOU to point out his signs and his truth. But if you continually point out things to be truth that turn out not to be, nobody will listen to you when you point out truth that actually is. If that happens, what good will your witness be?
I'm done "preaching" now.
Like I said, I wouldn't have kept up this long if I didn't love you and admire you as my sister in Christ. Those aren't just words... I mean it!
Lisa, there still seems to be an apparent disconnect. Nowhere has anyone in this thread or any of the other threads, asked that you, or anyone stop discussing end times issues. Nowhere, has anyone, asked that you never bring up end times issues. Yet, every time you respond to someone, you respond by saying you're not going to stop discussing end times.... but nobody has asked you to stop discussing end times.
The only "issue" here is the HOW. I wouldn't continue this discussion with you if I didn't think that God could use you in a greater capacity than he already is. That's precisely WHY I'm continuing. You have a boldness in speaking of God and scripture in a way that is very rare nowadays, and I admire you for it. BUT there is a fine line between being unashamedly bold for God, and being reckless.
You know the scripture as well as I do. What ELSE does God warn in the last days? He warns that there will be many false prophets who will deceive even the very elect. If we aren't careful to gage everything... even events that we think may be of God, with a dose of skepticism...yes SKEPTICISM.... we will be setting ourselves up to fulfill scripture as we could easily become part of those elect who, though saved, could be deceived in some way or another. What is worse is that we would have the potential of pointing believers in the wrong direction. None of us want that either.
When you saw the "sign" over the dome of the rock, you "assumed" that thousands had witnessed it when none had except for the people who took the "video" of it. When it was pointed out through analysis that the video was fake, you rejected it. When it was pointed out that thousands had in fact, NOT witnessed the event when thousands should have were it real, you seemed to reject that too and you and others tried to find a way to make what you saw line up with what is written in scripture.
You know satan and the antichrist will try to deceive. You admit the government will try to deceive us. If you know all these forces are going to try to deceive us... why make it so easy for them? If we, as believers, don't exercise a healthy dose of skepticism which gives us time for cooler heads and proper discernment, how will we ourselves not be deceived? If we are so eagerly looking for the truth that we stumble over a lie, how much worse those un-believers who might be looking to us for guidance?
All anyone is saying is... CAUTION.
You are right... God DOES want Christians... God does want YOU to point out his signs and his truth. But if you continually point out things to be truth that turn out not to be, nobody will listen to you when you point out truth that actually is. If that happens, what good will your witness be?
I'm done "preaching" now.
Like I said, I wouldn't have kept up this long if I didn't love you and admire you as my sister in Christ. Those aren't just words... I mean it!
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I am saddened that my post started an argument that caused bad feelings. I am sorry if my words were hurtful to anyone, that was not my intention. I love all of you and would never hurt any of you. As I said, I was strongly convicted to bring the subject to everyone's attention. I know it has been difficult. It is wonderful that we have managed to keep this discussion as loving and respectful as we have. We're doing pretty well for humans in the fallen state. We have kept God's commandment to love one another even in our disagreement.
Please allow me to give you some personal history that might explain why I feel so strongly about this - why we need to carefully examine how we say something, so that it will not be off-putting to those yet unsaved. There is a reason I feel so strongly about this.
I was not saved until I was 35 years old. That is not to say I was not religious. I was a passionate religious seeker my whole life. With great zeal I was looking for God in all the wrong places. Needless to say, I was always eventually disappointed with what I found. I studied every religion you can think of. I dug deeply, hoping that I would find God. Some places I dug deeper than others. I did not know Him at the time, so there were a lot of things that I thought "might be right." I quit digging when I was confronted with what I knew instinctively was definitely not of God. I crossed that religion off the list and moved on to the next possible right religion.
I crossed Christianity off the list of potentially right religions very early in my search. I saw in glimpses, many things that said the Christian God may be the true God, but the few Christians I met showed me things not of God. They came across as judgmental, illogical, and oftentimes bordering on hysterical.
You've just described the Churches I grew up in!... lol. I can definitely 'see' the point you're making here A..... I grew up in these Churches... filled with Holy-Rollin' tongue talking' born again Bible believers... so all of this shocking 'behavior' some find offensive or avoid, I find 'normal'. All Churches are filled with Sinners and the saved... all in the typical 'fallen' state as you've aptly stated, but many are truly 'saved by grace' so People need to focus on Christ and not Christians, which is what the 'enemy' has succeeded in getting them NOT to do. Most people want to focus on Christians and not Christ, that is... I think you guys know what I mean.. lol
They made a stronger impression that those little glimpses. It is our nature to see the bad more clearly than we see the good. I figured if these people were representative of their God, then He could not be the right and true God. They may have had the best of intentions, and what they were saying may have, in fact, been true. But I was not ready to hear it in the way they were saying it, so I didn't listen.
It was these Christians, not my pagan upbringing or my many pagan acquaintances, that kept me from God all those years.
Are you 100 percent certain about that?
I know I still have work to do on the resentment I feel towards these people. It is because of this that I am hyper critical of anything that might cause an unsaved person to "cross Christianity of their list."
We can't 'save' anyone A.... that's God's job... all we do is deliver the Gospel and then pray God brings the Harvest. We just plant 'seeds'... and we can't do that if we 'fear' the Gospel is going to be offensive or we're gonna come across as looking like (whatever the current culture labels us as appearing.. who knows what it is.. it changes yearly... lol)
By God's grace I was given enough time to get past my initial exposure to Christianity, to look past the things that turned me off. I accepted salvation not because of the zealousness of those people, but in spite of it.
That's something I used to say.. "God saves People not because of some Preachers, but in spite of them"... lol. This sure appears to be the case sometimes...
Blonde was correct in saying that not everybody reads these posts from the same angle as I.
I'm also aware 'some' do see things from your angle also A... so I didn't mean that in a harsh or judgmental way.. and I would hope you know me well enough to know that. The Lord revealed to me the 'Gospel is only open to those that will receive it"... so what do we do? We can't be chameleons to this current culture to make the Gospel appealing... it's just become too pagan and diverse A.... No matter 'what' we say or 'how' we say it (to some people) they're going to turn away BECAUSE of us.. they just won't receive the message no matter HOW we present it... and if we don't present it correctly they won't get 'saved' anyway..
I am sure very few do, and that is a good thing. But what if there is one person who does?
I'm with Lisa on this position.. I don't believe any of us have the 'power' to keep someone who is truly seeking Christ away. Bad Christians may have hurt your 'start' but they didn't prevent you entirely did they? Christ 'calls' us to Himself... I was taught this, I believe this.. we followers merely make the introduction that results in the eventual salvation. This is why there are so many spiritual 'forces' trying to prevent us from making that 'introduction'. What we do as followers of Christ is powerful and we just can't allow 'fear' to prevent us from reaching the lost for Christ. Many will begin to investigate further... dig deeper, and as a result, find the 'truth'.. just as you did. God does not begin a work He doesn't finish... I've been taught to believe this with all my heart..... we just 'begin' that work sometimes... using various methods. I agree we need to 'temper' or tone things down sometimes, but to those of us who believe we are approaching the the 'end times' and 'last' days, we feel we need to warn and that we've been called to do it. To those that don't believe we're living in the end times?... well, to them I say 'be at peace' but you could be wrong and I'm not betting on thousands of eternal souls that you're right... I'm going to work at winning souls for Christ whether it be a day or a thousand years.
What if they don't have thirty-five years to flounder around before looking at Christianity again?
This isn't our call ... it's theirs... don't let this fear immobilize you. You're right.. more people are gonna prefer a 'soft' Gospel... but what if your 'soft' Gospel doesn't lead them to Christ either? There's no guarantee even a softer Gospel truly leads people to Christ. Churches are filled with un-saved People. God uses Grace... and judgement. Sometimes we have to show people their 'sins' in order to lead them to the Saviour. That's just a fact. In a World that's trying to convince us there is no sin this is becoming increasingly hard to do.. so do I change the Gospel to prevent offending them? You know surely in some cases people will turn away...(They prefer to call SIN Human Nature now y'know?.. lol)
Time is short and we can't loose any souls. I might have a little sister out there who is just like I was. I don't want anything to turn her away from reconciliation with the family. I want her to be my sister now and forever. It is for her that I started this thread.
I've lost two Brothers A... one to suicide and the other to a Heart attack... I believe both wer saved but I can't be certain. Christ instructs us to work out our own salvation with fear & trembling. As 'we' grow in Christ we can only hope & pray we become more effective in reaching others... but we're not robots, we're fallen imperfect individuals... we can only do the best we can do with the knowledge we have at any given time. We have to receive by faith God will make 'everything alright' in the end.
With love,
~A
I really 'felt' your Heart in this A... I can tell you're deeply saddened and you want very much to win souls for the Kingdom. This powerful 'testimony' will sure do that. I promise I'll be more mindful of how my posts appear to others, as I want very much for you to be proud of calling me your Christian Sister....
Please allow me to give you some personal history that might explain why I feel so strongly about this - why we need to carefully examine how we say something, so that it will not be off-putting to those yet unsaved. There is a reason I feel so strongly about this.
I was not saved until I was 35 years old. That is not to say I was not religious. I was a passionate religious seeker my whole life. With great zeal I was looking for God in all the wrong places. Needless to say, I was always eventually disappointed with what I found. I studied every religion you can think of. I dug deeply, hoping that I would find God. Some places I dug deeper than others. I did not know Him at the time, so there were a lot of things that I thought "might be right." I quit digging when I was confronted with what I knew instinctively was definitely not of God. I crossed that religion off the list and moved on to the next possible right religion.
I crossed Christianity off the list of potentially right religions very early in my search. I saw in glimpses, many things that said the Christian God may be the true God, but the few Christians I met showed me things not of God. They came across as judgmental, illogical, and oftentimes bordering on hysterical.
You've just described the Churches I grew up in!... lol. I can definitely 'see' the point you're making here A..... I grew up in these Churches... filled with Holy-Rollin' tongue talking' born again Bible believers... so all of this shocking 'behavior' some find offensive or avoid, I find 'normal'. All Churches are filled with Sinners and the saved... all in the typical 'fallen' state as you've aptly stated, but many are truly 'saved by grace' so People need to focus on Christ and not Christians, which is what the 'enemy' has succeeded in getting them NOT to do. Most people want to focus on Christians and not Christ, that is... I think you guys know what I mean.. lol
They made a stronger impression that those little glimpses. It is our nature to see the bad more clearly than we see the good. I figured if these people were representative of their God, then He could not be the right and true God. They may have had the best of intentions, and what they were saying may have, in fact, been true. But I was not ready to hear it in the way they were saying it, so I didn't listen.
It was these Christians, not my pagan upbringing or my many pagan acquaintances, that kept me from God all those years.
Are you 100 percent certain about that?
I know I still have work to do on the resentment I feel towards these people. It is because of this that I am hyper critical of anything that might cause an unsaved person to "cross Christianity of their list."
We can't 'save' anyone A.... that's God's job... all we do is deliver the Gospel and then pray God brings the Harvest. We just plant 'seeds'... and we can't do that if we 'fear' the Gospel is going to be offensive or we're gonna come across as looking like (whatever the current culture labels us as appearing.. who knows what it is.. it changes yearly... lol)
By God's grace I was given enough time to get past my initial exposure to Christianity, to look past the things that turned me off. I accepted salvation not because of the zealousness of those people, but in spite of it.
That's something I used to say.. "God saves People not because of some Preachers, but in spite of them"... lol. This sure appears to be the case sometimes...
Blonde was correct in saying that not everybody reads these posts from the same angle as I.
I'm also aware 'some' do see things from your angle also A... so I didn't mean that in a harsh or judgmental way.. and I would hope you know me well enough to know that. The Lord revealed to me the 'Gospel is only open to those that will receive it"... so what do we do? We can't be chameleons to this current culture to make the Gospel appealing... it's just become too pagan and diverse A.... No matter 'what' we say or 'how' we say it (to some people) they're going to turn away BECAUSE of us.. they just won't receive the message no matter HOW we present it... and if we don't present it correctly they won't get 'saved' anyway..
I am sure very few do, and that is a good thing. But what if there is one person who does?
I'm with Lisa on this position.. I don't believe any of us have the 'power' to keep someone who is truly seeking Christ away. Bad Christians may have hurt your 'start' but they didn't prevent you entirely did they? Christ 'calls' us to Himself... I was taught this, I believe this.. we followers merely make the introduction that results in the eventual salvation. This is why there are so many spiritual 'forces' trying to prevent us from making that 'introduction'. What we do as followers of Christ is powerful and we just can't allow 'fear' to prevent us from reaching the lost for Christ. Many will begin to investigate further... dig deeper, and as a result, find the 'truth'.. just as you did. God does not begin a work He doesn't finish... I've been taught to believe this with all my heart..... we just 'begin' that work sometimes... using various methods. I agree we need to 'temper' or tone things down sometimes, but to those of us who believe we are approaching the the 'end times' and 'last' days, we feel we need to warn and that we've been called to do it. To those that don't believe we're living in the end times?... well, to them I say 'be at peace' but you could be wrong and I'm not betting on thousands of eternal souls that you're right... I'm going to work at winning souls for Christ whether it be a day or a thousand years.
What if they don't have thirty-five years to flounder around before looking at Christianity again?
This isn't our call ... it's theirs... don't let this fear immobilize you. You're right.. more people are gonna prefer a 'soft' Gospel... but what if your 'soft' Gospel doesn't lead them to Christ either? There's no guarantee even a softer Gospel truly leads people to Christ. Churches are filled with un-saved People. God uses Grace... and judgement. Sometimes we have to show people their 'sins' in order to lead them to the Saviour. That's just a fact. In a World that's trying to convince us there is no sin this is becoming increasingly hard to do.. so do I change the Gospel to prevent offending them? You know surely in some cases people will turn away...(They prefer to call SIN Human Nature now y'know?.. lol)
Time is short and we can't loose any souls. I might have a little sister out there who is just like I was. I don't want anything to turn her away from reconciliation with the family. I want her to be my sister now and forever. It is for her that I started this thread.
I've lost two Brothers A... one to suicide and the other to a Heart attack... I believe both wer saved but I can't be certain. Christ instructs us to work out our own salvation with fear & trembling. As 'we' grow in Christ we can only hope & pray we become more effective in reaching others... but we're not robots, we're fallen imperfect individuals... we can only do the best we can do with the knowledge we have at any given time. We have to receive by faith God will make 'everything alright' in the end.
With love,
~A
I really 'felt' your Heart in this A... I can tell you're deeply saddened and you want very much to win souls for the Kingdom. This powerful 'testimony' will sure do that. I promise I'll be more mindful of how my posts appear to others, as I want very much for you to be proud of calling me your Christian Sister....
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I am in such agreement with Lisa's post on so many levels... and Jason's also.
This is not an easy calling for any of us... but we're working it out in brotherly love and trying to discern these trying times we're living in. Now, I don't know about any of you, but I live in Florida... and I WAS affected by the horrendous oil spill.. the masses of dead Fish in Sebastian Inlet (less than an hours drive away) and now masses of dead Jelly fish. This isn't sensational news headlines for me.. this is my 'home'.. where I live. I've 'chose' to no longer eat 'fish' anymore because of the Water. If something 'in' the waters are killing Fish and Jelly fish, it would more than likely kill me also. We're not talking a few 'floating' dead fish here either... we're talking you could 'wade' in the dead fish up to your knees folks.. if any of you want the local news (with photos) in order to better visualize this I'm sure I can find them... or you can Google for them, in fact, I wish most of you would. A few dead birds or fish in isolated incidences and remote areas would be no big deal... but hundreds of incidents worldwide? ... this is a big deal to me.. it symbolizes something bigger.. it's significant. I feel God is trying to tell the World something and it just refuses to listen. What does God have to do to get people to listen? I will be more 'sensitive' about posting end time events... but as I stated earlier, if Christ gives me a 'word' or a 'dream' and I feel led to post something.. I will post it.. remaining sensitive to how it may appear to others, because I love all of you very much also. I've grown as a Christian as a result of being on this Forum..... thanks to most of you
This is not an easy calling for any of us... but we're working it out in brotherly love and trying to discern these trying times we're living in. Now, I don't know about any of you, but I live in Florida... and I WAS affected by the horrendous oil spill.. the masses of dead Fish in Sebastian Inlet (less than an hours drive away) and now masses of dead Jelly fish. This isn't sensational news headlines for me.. this is my 'home'.. where I live. I've 'chose' to no longer eat 'fish' anymore because of the Water. If something 'in' the waters are killing Fish and Jelly fish, it would more than likely kill me also. We're not talking a few 'floating' dead fish here either... we're talking you could 'wade' in the dead fish up to your knees folks.. if any of you want the local news (with photos) in order to better visualize this I'm sure I can find them... or you can Google for them, in fact, I wish most of you would. A few dead birds or fish in isolated incidences and remote areas would be no big deal... but hundreds of incidents worldwide? ... this is a big deal to me.. it symbolizes something bigger.. it's significant. I feel God is trying to tell the World something and it just refuses to listen. What does God have to do to get people to listen? I will be more 'sensitive' about posting end time events... but as I stated earlier, if Christ gives me a 'word' or a 'dream' and I feel led to post something.. I will post it.. remaining sensitive to how it may appear to others, because I love all of you very much also. I've grown as a Christian as a result of being on this Forum..... thanks to most of you
I'm posting this in hopes of finally resolving this issue. I'm reiterating, and expanding on my previous post in this thread.
As I said in my reply, I question the source of the website information that is posted on the forum. Not everyone on these websites claiming to be “Christian” has “inside information” on world events. We are warned not to be deceived. I find a man such as Dr. Billy Graham has credibility, and is a respected member of the Christian community. I am inclined to respect his views on end times prophecy more than the questionable content of certain websites.
I stand firm in God's Word:
2 Timothy 3:1-9
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
Perhaps the forum may be the only exposure a non believer has to Christianity, and I am going to keep the forum grounded in the Word of God to the best of my ability. It is up to each individual to be led by the Holy Spirit for understanding of what God's Word says. Not led by my understanding, interpretation, or that of anyone else, including Dr. Graham. We must test the spirits to see if they are of God.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
I am only accountable to my Heavenly Father, and He is the only One I'm concerned with pleasing. I will not apologize for that. Nor will I apologize for taking my responsibilities seriously.
In His Love,
'T'
As I said in my reply, I question the source of the website information that is posted on the forum. Not everyone on these websites claiming to be “Christian” has “inside information” on world events. We are warned not to be deceived. I find a man such as Dr. Billy Graham has credibility, and is a respected member of the Christian community. I am inclined to respect his views on end times prophecy more than the questionable content of certain websites.
I stand firm in God's Word:
2 Timothy 3:1-9
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
Perhaps the forum may be the only exposure a non believer has to Christianity, and I am going to keep the forum grounded in the Word of God to the best of my ability. It is up to each individual to be led by the Holy Spirit for understanding of what God's Word says. Not led by my understanding, interpretation, or that of anyone else, including Dr. Graham. We must test the spirits to see if they are of God.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
I am only accountable to my Heavenly Father, and He is the only One I'm concerned with pleasing. I will not apologize for that. Nor will I apologize for taking my responsibilities seriously.
In His Love,
'T'
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