Just a thought. If heat destroys the nicotine in my juice, how does any nicotine get past the coil in my atty? The coil produces much higher temperatures than anyone is using to help the steeping process along.
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With juice lying on the dash of a car more than just heat comes into play. Their is also the affect of UV light to be considered.
Actually those are different questions than the statement you made, which are still as yet unanswered. You may believe you answered it, bit you havent. Plus my origional atatement was.... "show me poof shaking/vibration ALONE [a.k.a. by itself, with little to no heat] does anything effective". Im paraphrasing here but thats the gist.
Ive already discussed my method and I do shake it every now and then.
I said shaking/vibration ALONE wasnt effective. Hence no one can justify ultrasonic to me. You came right back with what I said in the first place about entropy creating heat. Did I, or did I not, say heat was what was effective to begin with??
Why? Heres why, any liquid when its heated.... rotates itself inside its container. So stirring/mixing is happening regardless. Heat causes the liquid to mix by itself.. i already know this. so does anyone who has ever boiled water. Ive been cooking since I was 5, everyday.
Sorry, but Im annoyed by the snippyness of your response back to me on this without so much as a forethought because you want to give the appearance of science without proving or providing practical application to rhe discussion at hand.
The questions you snipped out above werent answered:
How much heat is necessary to be most effective? what amount? and for what period of time?
Before you say you answered a question... actually answer it. Because a statement about entropy explains nothing regarding practical apllication.
Ive already discussed my method and I do shake it every now and then.
I said shaking/vibration ALONE wasnt effective. Hence no one can justify ultrasonic to me. You came right back with what I said in the first place about entropy creating heat. Did I, or did I not, say heat was what was effective to begin with??
Why? Heres why, any liquid when its heated.... rotates itself inside its container. So stirring/mixing is happening regardless. Heat causes the liquid to mix by itself.. i already know this. so does anyone who has ever boiled water. Ive been cooking since I was 5, everyday.
Sorry, but Im annoyed by the snippyness of your response back to me on this without so much as a forethought because you want to give the appearance of science without proving or providing practical application to rhe discussion at hand.
The questions you snipped out above werent answered:
How much heat is necessary to be most effective? what amount? and for what period of time?
Before you say you answered a question... actually answer it. Because a statement about entropy explains nothing regarding practical apllication.
UV does more harm than anything ever could to eliquid. Thats long been proven. Even vendors have done tests on it. So a 7% loss doesnt suprise me. If you wanna leave your bottles in a window cause they look pretty sparkling in the sunlight, feel free.
I still do not believe low and slow heat alone has much effect on the nic. It can reach 300° in a car. We arent talking those levels even.
I still do not believe low and slow heat alone has much effect on the nic. It can reach 300° in a car. We arent talking those levels even.
No no top. Ypu dont wanna trap in moisture... especially if you have the caps off or if using a beaker or graduated cylinder setup. Itll come to temp given time even with the lid off.
However I will say that i try to minimize oxidation as much as possible. which is why i mix into bottles directly. I use beakers for large batch transfers into bottles and for making flavor extracts. I wouldnt let my finished juice sit in one cooking exposed to that much air.
Not that there is inherently too much wrong with it but I do try to minimize contamination/oxidation by not keeping caps off very long.
However I will say that i try to minimize oxidation as much as possible. which is why i mix into bottles directly. I use beakers for large batch transfers into bottles and for making flavor extracts. I wouldnt let my finished juice sit in one cooking exposed to that much air.
Not that there is inherently too much wrong with it but I do try to minimize contamination/oxidation by not keeping caps off very long.
My first crock pot experience:
1) Set it to "warm" which= 145* on my unit. I proceeded at that temp based on the "hot dog cooker" testimonial I read on this thread.
2) filled 6-2oz baby food jars, boiled clean of course, with 10ml test batches, some of which had been steeping naturally for 3 days via "natural" steeping, i.e. shake well, then cap off 24hrs, followed by shake and store.
3) Placed bottles in ziplock bags for extra watertight measures as I didn't trust the seal on my bottles to prevent 100% water intrusion, I should note that one of the lids was accidentally over tightened and popped off "killing" a fresh 10ml batch of raspberry before the baggies came into play.
4) Gently placed the bottles in the pot and clipped the tops of the baggies together to keep the tops of the bags from sinking into the water and opening. Over cautious? Probably, but I'm trying something new so I was a little more OCD than normal.
5) After verifying the temp was going to be stable I went to bed. This was per the advice my wife had received from the owner of our local Vape shop, he's always shot us straight and he crock pot steeps his own juice overnight.
6) Removed the bottles from the crock pot this morning, around 7 hrs in the bath, and allowed them to cool.
7) Placed the fluid in 10ml drip bottles and grabbed my drip addy.
I noticed right away that the color had changed for the better!
The control I had used was a 10ml bottle of "naturally" steeped Energy Drink(TPA) "Red Bull" at 10%, that is my all day Vape and I love this stuff, vs. a fresh batch made only moments before I began the experiment.
The crock pot version was already slightly darker than the control.
I dripped 5 drops of the new juice in and…well it just didn't reach full flavor! I could Vape it if it was all I had, but it didn't have the same level of sweetness or overall flavor strength. It wasn't ruined by any stretch but I decided to start the natural steeping process and see what happens.
Among the other flavors was a Bubble Gum (LA) batch that I mixed @ 20%. It too had the "look" of a steeped liquid but this one tasted more like my PG/VG base than anything else. I've never tried it right after I mixed it, but I imagine it would taste exactly like it did after this process.
I also tried it on two flavors already started in the "natural" steeping process and while the color improved, I can't say the flavor was much better. Maybe slightly.
One more note about my mixes: I mix my Juices to a 50/50 PG/VG ratio and always 18mg/ml Nic target. Mostly fruit and mint flavors and never tobacco flavors.
Summery: I don't recommend this process at 140-150* for 7hrs as a "magic" rapid steep. I plan on trying heated and unheated ultrasonic cleaners when I have the funds to experiment a little more. And I will update this post in a few days pending the results of my flavors once they have had a chance to rest. This method might not get the instant results we all crave but it might speed things along and would be worth the effort if it shortened the steep times by at least 50%.
Thanks for reading and I hope to have some input from some of you that have more/better experience than I.
1) Set it to "warm" which= 145* on my unit. I proceeded at that temp based on the "hot dog cooker" testimonial I read on this thread.
2) filled 6-2oz baby food jars, boiled clean of course, with 10ml test batches, some of which had been steeping naturally for 3 days via "natural" steeping, i.e. shake well, then cap off 24hrs, followed by shake and store.
3) Placed bottles in ziplock bags for extra watertight measures as I didn't trust the seal on my bottles to prevent 100% water intrusion, I should note that one of the lids was accidentally over tightened and popped off "killing" a fresh 10ml batch of raspberry before the baggies came into play.
4) Gently placed the bottles in the pot and clipped the tops of the baggies together to keep the tops of the bags from sinking into the water and opening. Over cautious? Probably, but I'm trying something new so I was a little more OCD than normal.
5) After verifying the temp was going to be stable I went to bed. This was per the advice my wife had received from the owner of our local Vape shop, he's always shot us straight and he crock pot steeps his own juice overnight.
6) Removed the bottles from the crock pot this morning, around 7 hrs in the bath, and allowed them to cool.
7) Placed the fluid in 10ml drip bottles and grabbed my drip addy.
I noticed right away that the color had changed for the better!
The control I had used was a 10ml bottle of "naturally" steeped Energy Drink(TPA) "Red Bull" at 10%, that is my all day Vape and I love this stuff, vs. a fresh batch made only moments before I began the experiment.
The crock pot version was already slightly darker than the control.
I dripped 5 drops of the new juice in and…well it just didn't reach full flavor! I could Vape it if it was all I had, but it didn't have the same level of sweetness or overall flavor strength. It wasn't ruined by any stretch but I decided to start the natural steeping process and see what happens.
Among the other flavors was a Bubble Gum (LA) batch that I mixed @ 20%. It too had the "look" of a steeped liquid but this one tasted more like my PG/VG base than anything else. I've never tried it right after I mixed it, but I imagine it would taste exactly like it did after this process.
I also tried it on two flavors already started in the "natural" steeping process and while the color improved, I can't say the flavor was much better. Maybe slightly.
One more note about my mixes: I mix my Juices to a 50/50 PG/VG ratio and always 18mg/ml Nic target. Mostly fruit and mint flavors and never tobacco flavors.
Summery: I don't recommend this process at 140-150* for 7hrs as a "magic" rapid steep. I plan on trying heated and unheated ultrasonic cleaners when I have the funds to experiment a little more. And I will update this post in a few days pending the results of my flavors once they have had a chance to rest. This method might not get the instant results we all crave but it might speed things along and would be worth the effort if it shortened the steep times by at least 50%.
Thanks for reading and I hope to have some input from some of you that have more/better experience than I.
As I was reading I pretty much anticipated your summary. While I use only 125° some others are in the 150° range. I do three to five hours, never more. Not that itll hurt it... I just dont see much improvement past 3-4 hours in the crock pot. Ive never tried an all day steep tho, but I may just for kicks.
Heres why I anticipated your results tho.
If you are looking for a "magic" steep that makes your juice 100% readily vapable and in its primo state for flavor... you are not going to make that happen with any current steeping method. Whether its ultrasonic, heat, a combo of both.... doesnt matter. I made a point earlier in the thread that only time will get you to that sweet spot for your juice.
The point of rapid steeping is to get you to that prime state for your juice faster than just letting it sit.
Short of you inventing an entirely new steeping method you will never get the immediate gratification you seek. We would all love to make a juice and have it be perfect in minutes. With current tech... not gonna happen.
Time.... no matter what we do... time needs to work its own "magic". We are just giving it a big nudge by adding heat.
It wasnt your results that failed. It was your expectations. Had you heeded my earlier advice you would not have been disappointed.
Heres why I anticipated your results tho.
If you are looking for a "magic" steep that makes your juice 100% readily vapable and in its primo state for flavor... you are not going to make that happen with any current steeping method. Whether its ultrasonic, heat, a combo of both.... doesnt matter. I made a point earlier in the thread that only time will get you to that sweet spot for your juice.
The point of rapid steeping is to get you to that prime state for your juice faster than just letting it sit.
Short of you inventing an entirely new steeping method you will never get the immediate gratification you seek. We would all love to make a juice and have it be perfect in minutes. With current tech... not gonna happen.
Time.... no matter what we do... time needs to work its own "magic". We are just giving it a big nudge by adding heat.
It wasnt your results that failed. It was your expectations. Had you heeded my earlier advice you would not have been disappointed.
I'm glad to see others trying different methods of speed steeping. It will allow us to learn from each others experiments. To clarify what is going on with the SS hotdog tube method. First, the liquid inside is being heated. Second, the liquid is being stirred by the rolling. Third, the contents of the tube are under pressure, for expanding gasses inside. Heating in a crock pot or microwave only employs one of these factors. You can't count the shaking since everyone does that. Ultrasonic with heat uses two factors. I suppose if you used sealed containers you could employ all three. I believe that the more ways that you stress the juice the faster it will mature. I'm a tobacco vapor so my goal was only to bring my juice to a stage which would be useable on the day it's mixed, that was accomplished. Even so, it keeps getting better with time. Their's a lot of good stuff about steeping in this thread. Shake, Stir, Heat, Vibrate or let it sit?
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Its all too much work for me. I needs to taste right when mixed. Now if it doesnt, I do steep but in an unconventional method. I toss it in the car glovebox for a couple days. Parked all day at work with windows up maintains 100-120* easy peasy.
No snipiness intended. I'm being as blunt as you.
I can't make you understand, that's up to you. I don't know how to put it any other way than I have. Your very last statement above means I'm beating my head against a wall. I won't be back on this, no point. I am also not meaning to disrespect you in any way, do the same.
@buffaloguy…I plan on trying again but ill need to invest in more equipment first. I used what I had on hand and it just didn't have adequate temp settings. As far as "magic" methodology and my expectations, I admit I hoped for better results but I honestly didn't expect them. I appreciate you posting back and I will keep this thread in my favorites.
Oh, and to update the progress, I've tossed all of the batches and started over.
Oh, and to update the progress, I've tossed all of the batches and started over.
@jimzdogz,
I like the slow cooker you came up with. I've got one of those at home. I've kept my eyes open for a good tube to try that method out with. One question. Do you try to leave some empty volume in the tube, and if so how much?
I like the slow cooker you came up with. I've got one of those at home. I've kept my eyes open for a good tube to try that method out with. One question. Do you try to leave some empty volume in the tube, and if so how much?
Again, you are the one not getting it. I know what you are saying.
But, if you are going to answer the questions... then answer them. Dont dance around them with scientific blibbity blab cause you want to look edumicated.
You have a good point on entropy but it doesnt answer the basic questions that I posed to make them applicable to this discussion. I mean I dont know how many different ways to ask the same question. You came in obviously trying to help, appreciated. However none of what you said moves the discussion forward. It was just "oh this is what entropy is". How does it apply?? Whats the conclusion relating to eliquid? What temps are best? How long? You did none of that.... but you seem to think you did?? and i dont get it?
Nonetheless, Ill agree to disagree. If thats what youd prefer.
I still dont see how anything you said applies to the discussion at hand other than as an aside about heat/entropy. Unless you plan to tie it in to the discussion with practical application and answer effectiveness and at what temps or for how long... it was kinda pointless. Thats just how I see it. Sorry. And it was snippy. As was having to say all this again. So ill address it no more.
But, if you are going to answer the questions... then answer them. Dont dance around them with scientific blibbity blab cause you want to look edumicated.
You have a good point on entropy but it doesnt answer the basic questions that I posed to make them applicable to this discussion. I mean I dont know how many different ways to ask the same question. You came in obviously trying to help, appreciated. However none of what you said moves the discussion forward. It was just "oh this is what entropy is". How does it apply?? Whats the conclusion relating to eliquid? What temps are best? How long? You did none of that.... but you seem to think you did?? and i dont get it?
Nonetheless, Ill agree to disagree. If thats what youd prefer.
I still dont see how anything you said applies to the discussion at hand other than as an aside about heat/entropy. Unless you plan to tie it in to the discussion with practical application and answer effectiveness and at what temps or for how long... it was kinda pointless. Thats just how I see it. Sorry. And it was snippy. As was having to say all this again. So ill address it no more.
Ive been using my mini crock pot for the last 6wks...very happy with my juicers now...
Jim I love that hot dog roller idea with the tubes. Its really clever. Using the crockpot does indeed mix your juice tho. Anytime you add heat to liquid the heat will roll the liquid from hottest to coldest. It mixes in a crock pot too. you just arent seeing the motion like you would the rolling boil of water in a pot. Not as agressively as a hot sog roller might mix it, but it is indeed happening.
The question I had for you is what you meant by the contents being under pressure? Wouldnt a cap on a heated glass bottle be the same kind of under pressure, or does the tubes you use do something extra Im not seeing?
The question I had for you is what you meant by the contents being under pressure? Wouldnt a cap on a heated glass bottle be the same kind of under pressure, or does the tubes you use do something extra Im not seeing?
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