Rapid Steeping

[SnakeFarm]

I'm just at the materials gathering phase of becoming a DIYer, but I have a magnetic stirring plate (rotating magnet goes inside the flask and base plate spins it). I'm looking forward to using it to "steep," and I'm curious about what the lab-rats here might think of the proposal. I know that caffeine is a heat sensitive compound; that's why light roast coffee has more than dark roasted. Does anybody know if nicotine shares this property? All I know is that they are both mild CNS stimulants and that they have the same mildly-Latin sounding suffix. Anyway, that made me wonder if the crock-pot method might be diminishing the nicotine strength.

 

[Nova V]

I just picked up a candle warmer. I thought I would try this since it didn't cost much. I put some hot water in a mug and a freshly made bottle of liquid in it and it is sitting on the candle warmer. According to my meat thermometer, it is between 125 - 130 degrees. I'm going to shake it every half hour or so. Well probably more often since I will give it a few shakes each time I head to the fridge for another beer. Will try this in a few hours and see how it is.

Are we talking about a "Scentsy" pot? Cause if so I'm about to "borrow" my wife's! Wouldn't be hard to drop a candy thermometer in that bad boy and I think I've got a few bulbs of differing wattages to play with. Ultimate DIY ghetto setup! lol

 

[psycheval]

I'm just at the materials gathering phase of becoming a DIYer, but I have a magnetic stirring plate (rotating magnet goes inside the flask and base plate spins it). I'm looking forward to using it to "steep," and I'm curious about what the lab-rats here might think of the proposal. I know that caffeine is a heat sensitive compound; that's why light roast coffee has more than dark roasted. Does anybody know if nicotine shares this property? All I know is that they are both mild CNS stimulants and that they have the same mildly-Latin sounding suffix. Anyway, that made me wonder if the crock-pot method might be diminishing the nicotine strength.

Anything you do other than letting it set is going to speed the process. How much? Dunno. Depends on your whole process. From alll appearances 2 different means of vibrating are getting about the same results in the same time.
Yes nicotine is light and heat sensitive.
I do not at heat after the nicotine base go's in my blend. I heat everything but the nic. Once the nics in it only gets vibrated from then on. The nic is not going to have a catastrophic breakdown over heat. it will slowly degrade the more you add and the longer you add it from all I can find on it. I am paying for that nic so I have no intention of ever losing one little .%

 

[pdxtechdoctor]

. I am paying for that nic so I have no intention of ever losing one little .%

Really?

Using a cost calculator lets say you vape 5ml a day (which is more than I do and probably most...) that is 150 ml a month...

Again lets assume you vape 18mg which is considered "High"

Total cost of nic from Wizard Labs is $3.78

In an EXTREME case lets say you loose 50% of your nic because of heating so you put in 36mg to go back down to 18mg.. total cost is only double so $7.56...

That's an extra cost of only $3.78 a MONTH or less than $.13 a day...

If I can get my liquid ready quicker by heating is I'd pay less than $1 for a weeks work.. and this is an exteme case.. normally less than a quarter...

I'm frugal as hell, but I can justify such a low expense to get what I need to save weeks in waiting....

 

[buffaloguy]

What you are not clear on here is that yes... while every action creates heat... what is the amount of heat necessary amd for what period of time? Also, heat alone whether it is created by flame, or by vibration... is still heat. So what does shaking/vibrating it do that a simple crock pot cant achieve.

Shaking/vibration alone creates very little heat. Therefore... imo, ineffective. You need more heat than that. 125° has been my magic number. Ultrasonic is simply not necessary. Thats my opinion based on the mixing work Ive done for well over a year now. While others swear by ultrasonic I just dont see the benefit. Heat is heat... its the amount of heat produced here (even tho 125°f is still low) that makes the difference.

Now if you wanna blow your money on an ultrasonic cleaner with a heater in it feel free but Im guessing the results will be the same or comparable to what I do with just a crock pot.

Laws of thermodynamics
"" First law of thermodynamics: Heat and work are forms of energy transfer. Energy is invariably conserved, however the internal energy of a closed system may change as heat is transferred into or out of the system or work is done on or by the system. It is a convention to say that the work that is done by the system has a positive sign and connotes a transfer of energy from the system to its surroundings, while work done on the system has a negative sign. For example, changes in molecular energy (potential energy), are generally considered to remain within the system. Similarly, the rotational and vibrational energies of polyatomic molecules remain within the system.

From the above, all the energy associated with a system must be accounted for as heat, work, chemical energy etc., thus perpetual motion machines of the first kind, which would do work without using the energy resources of a system, are impossible. ""


Means you do anything at all to it that thing you did has an effect on Entropy. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics covers the rest. Any work whether it's just molecular energy or physical energy. Even electrical figures into the calculations for entropy. You create heat by doing anything. Regardless of whether heat was added. To increase entropy you agitate it in some way I.E. heat, shaking, vibrating, spinning, or electrical current. The velocity at which those things are done is also figured into the calculations for Entropy. Anything that makes heat increases entropy. All the actions have an affect on thermodynamics because the molecules are in motion. You increase entropy you speed up steep times.

 

[buffaloguy]

I do agree that some testing should be done at different temps to see if nic strength gets degraded at all, but frankly I dont think it has much of an effect at the relatively low temps we are talking about here (sub say 150°). Unfortunately I dont have the equipment to test for that or I would have by now just out of curiousity.

I havent noticed any nic loss as far as my vaping goes on a surface level anyways.

 

[Cheechako]

After mixing ingredients I microwave for approx. 8 seconds to heat mixture and shake. Works for me!
Excited molecules do some aging on liquid

 

[srcowell]

After mixing ingredients I microwave for approx. 8 seconds to heat mixture and shake. Works for me!
Excited molecules do some aging on liquid

I also use the microwave, and only for a few seconds. In fact, about 5 seconds. You'd hardly think that's enough time, but it you use the small plastic drip bottles most juices are sold in and which I use for all my mixes, more than 5 seconds runs the risk of getting the liquid inside so hot it will cause the plastic bottle to soften and change shape. Make sure you do this with CAP OFF, because the pressure that can build up can cause the bottle to expand. Some of my bottles had to be thrown away because the bottoms rounded so they were no long flat and would no longer stand upright.

 

[JimzDogz]

This is my steeping solution. I mix my juice in a SS cigar tube flask then I put it on my hotdog cooker for 3 hrs. at 150 degrees. Go ahead laugh if you want, it works and the hotdogs ain't bad either. Anyway, back to my little presentation. The pic on the left shows the leather holster the came with the SS flask. As it happens my Provari fits perfectly with one of the 2 oz. flask, it has a belt loop and snap down flap. When I mix juice I fill the flask and put it on the cooker which rolls it and heats it. The pic on the right shows my last batch using this method. The bottle on the left is freshly mixed and bottled. The bottle in the middle is after 2 hours on the cooker. The bottle on the right is after 5 hrs. on the cooker. This is a tobacco mix with tobacco absolute in It, that's way it's dark. The 5 hr. one was just me pushing the limits, 3 hrs. is plenty. I am very happy with the results I get. The juice tastes great and it very easy to do. Have fun with it folks I am.

 

[Propertea]

you sir... are genius! where did you buy that contraption! lol

and also how big were youre bottles when you place it on the hot dog roller? plastic or glass?

View attachment 221262View attachment 221263View attachment 221264This is my steeping solution. I mix my juice in a SS cigar tube flask then I put it on my hotdog cooker for 3 hrs. at 150 degrees. Go ahead laugh if you want, it works and the hotdogs ain't bad either. Anyway, back to my little presentation. The pic on the left shows the leather holster the came with the SS flask. As it happens my Provari fits perfectly with one of the 2 oz. flask, it has a belt loop and snap down flap. When I mix juice I fill the flask and put it on the cooker which rolls it and heats it. The pic on the right shows my last batch using this method. The bottle on the left is freshly mixed and bottled. The bottle in the middle is after 2 hours on the cooker. The bottle on the right is after 5 hrs. on the cooker. This is a tobacco mix with tobacco absolute in It, that's way it's dark. The 5 hr. one was just me pushing the limits, 3 hrs. is plenty. I am very happy with the results I get. The juice tastes great and it very easy to do. Have fun with it folks I am.

 

[Susan W.]

When there's a will, there's a way. Never would have thought to use a hot dog cooker. I thought it was a toy. Too funny!!

View attachment 221262View attachment 221263View attachment 221264This is my steeping solution. I mix my juice in a SS cigar tube flask then I put it on my hotdog cooker for 3 hrs. at 150 degrees. Go ahead laugh if you want, it works and the hotdogs ain't bad either. Anyway, back to my little presentation. The pic on the left shows the leather holster the came with the SS flask. As it happens my Provari fits perfectly with one of the 2 oz. flask, it has a belt loop and snap down flap. When I mix juice I fill the flask and put it on the cooker which rolls it and heats it. The pic on the right shows my last batch using this method. The bottle on the left is freshly mixed and bottled. The bottle in the middle is after 2 hours on the cooker. The bottle on the right is after 5 hrs. on the cooker. This is a tobacco mix with tobacco absolute in It, that's way it's dark. The 5 hr. one was just me pushing the limits, 3 hrs. is plenty. I am very happy with the results I get. The juice tastes great and it very easy to do. Have fun with it folks I am.

 

[greasemonky89]

But did the hot dog cooker degrade the nic content?. Flavor is good but since im only 2 weeks without cigs im more worried about losing the nic hit.

Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk 2

 

[JimzDogz]

you sir... are genius! where did you buy that contraption! lol

and also how big were youre bottles when you place it on the hot dog roller? plastic or glass?

Thanks, I have my moments. As far as the equipment, I bought the hotdog cooker on Ebay for $38.00. It's no a toy either this one is very well built and sturdy, should last for years. The cigar flask also came for Ebay I paid $14.00 for the 2 ss flask and the leather holster. After I received the set I fell in love with the holster and would have gladly have paid $14.00 for it alone.
For this test batch I mixed up 100 ml. each flask holds a little over 50 ml. For demonstration purposes I withdrew juice and put it in plastic bottles at set intervals. The ss flask are about the same size and shape as hotdogs so they work great for my purpose. I wouldn't put a plastic bottles on there, it could be disastrous. Also I used a meat thermometer to get the heat set before I put my juice on.

 

[JimzDogz]

But did the hot dog cooker degrade the nic content?. Flavor is good but since im only 2 weeks without cigs im more worried about losing the nic hit.

I can't say with certainty about the nic. since I didn't test and compare that. I plan to get a nic test kit and find out with my next batch. I don't expect to find much if any degradation of the nic. at these low temperatures. If low temp heating caused much degradation I would think flue and fire cured tobaccos would be have the same problem. I believe the bigger culprits in causing degradation of nic is oxygen and UV light. They are usually the main factors in breaking down organic matter. That is why it's recommended to use amber glass bottles for storage of your nic liquids.
As a benchmark for this test I made a batch of the same recipe and steeped it in the traditional manner for 3 weeks. I compared the batch to the test batch for taste and color. The results are very comparable in both batches. The biggest difference I found to be that the slow steeped is very polished looking almost like maple syrup. Whereas the heated batch at least initially is more opaque, but the same color. Though I'm very encouraged by these results I'm by no means finished tweaking.

 

[psycheval]

Really?

Using a cost calculator lets say you vape 5ml a day (which is more than I do and probably most...) that is 150 ml a month...

Again lets assume you vape 18mg which is considered "High"

Total cost of nic from Wizard Labs is $3.78

In an EXTREME case lets say you loose 50% of your nic because of heating so you put in 36mg to go back down to 18mg.. total cost is only double so $7.56...

That's an extra cost of only $3.78 a MONTH or less than $.13 a day...

If I can get my liquid ready quicker by heating is I'd pay less than $1 for a weeks work.. and this is an exteme case.. normally less than a quarter...

I'm frugal as hell, but I can justify such a low expense to get what I need to save weeks in waiting....

Let's see $25 for a 125ml MFS 100mg/ml or $3.60 for 177ml plain VG. I vape 24mg/ml mix. I've seen tests folks have done with putting on their dash and losing 7% in 2weeks in the summer. That's not bad. I just don't intend to lose any. If you can stand it get after it. I am a heat proponent regardless. I'm just not putting it to my nic.

 

[psycheval]

What you are not clear on here is that yes... while every action creates heat... what is the amount of heat necessary amd for what period of time? Also, heat alone whether it is created by flame, or by vibration... is still heat. So what does shaking/vibrating it do that a simple crock pot cant achieve.

I'm very clear. I answered your statement.
Your not getting just the benefits of heat created by heat. You are also getting any of the benefits of the shaking itself. Anything you do more than just one thing is better than just one thing.

If somebody decided to put electrical current to it I don't suspect there would be a whole lot of folks running around blowing out wall sockets. Folks buy what they can afford. I had my shaker already so it didn't cost me a dime I hadn't already spent. It's an option. Just like a Hotdog Cooker or Ultrasonic.

I have never said vibrating alone is going to do anything heat won't. I don't use it alone and from what I see nobody else is either. I think heat is utterly essential.

 

[psycheval]

The results are very comparable in both batches. The biggest difference I found to be that the slow steeped is very polished looking almost like maple syrup. Whereas the heated batch at least initially is more opaque, but the same color.

I get the same with my method. Taste is almost negligible difference. Color is different compared to just letting it set. I think it's oxidation changing the color. May not be. That has me stumped at the moment. The stuff I speed steep darkens quicker but about 6-7 days the just let it set catches it for color. Then it starts to get like maple syrup. I'm waiting on a bottle of speed steep stuff to get 3 weeks old to see if it catches up to a just let it sit.

 

[Leothwyn]

I used to put my new juices in a little black cardboard box (that an ego kit came in) and set that in a sunny windowsill for the day. It got really warm, kept the light out, and seemed to work.
Since I picked up an ultrasonic cleaner at a yard sale for a quarter, I've been using that instead.

 

[Propertea]

I use bottles up to 60ml in a crock pot. If you have alot to make... use a bigger crock pot. The water mid way is fine itll just take longer for everything to come up to temp and stay there.

what if i use a glass bowl or glass graduated cylinders with wide mouths instead of bottles to make large batches with to much air cause the loss of flavors? and do use the top for the crockpot? im assuming no since the evaporated water might drip into your bottle.

 

[Propertea]

Let's see $25 for a 125ml MFS 100mg/ml or $3.60 for 177ml plain VG. I vape 24mg/ml mix. I've seen tests folks have done with putting on their dash and losing 7% in 2weeks in the summer. That's not bad. I just don't intend to lose any. If you can stand it get after it. I am a heat proponent regardless. I'm just not putting it to my nic.

if people are so caught up on losing nic % why don't they mix only the pg/vg and flavoring in a batch then add the nic later after you have only steeped your juice at room temp? or am i missing something here..