Rc123a tenergy batts!!

[quovadis]

I think (not sure) that the super T has a resistor to drop to 5V. If that's the case the performance may be better. (it's HE BTW)




Has anyone tried modding with this...

6V 3500mAh NiMH Rechargeable Battery Pack for Maglite MagCharger, Streamlight SL20, SL20S & SL20X
(it kinda looks like 4x 1.5V shrinkwrapped together)

This green battery is longer than a raging erection! How are we supposed to charge it?


How about this...

Duracell 6 Volt Alkaline Lantern Battery Spring Top MN908

Hey Quo, maybe you can get Jeff to make you one of those mailbox covers for it, (and a little handtruck to hull it around with)

This green battery is longer than a raging erection! How are we supposed to charge it?

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

Wow, got the opposite problem with my Tenergys...... They put out so much for the first hour, that they cook and burn my lips..... After the first hour they calm down and vape perfectly...... Anyone else have this problem.......

That's my experience as well. I run 3 different battery types in my chuck with no issues with any of them, as far as overall performance goes.

All batteries are going to work like a rock star the first 10-15 minutes, and they slowly lose performance, and eventually taper off at a rapid rate (aka time to recharge).

I use Ultrafire 2400mAh Protected 18650 3.7v, Tenergy 750mAh LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0v, and Ultrafire 800mAh Unprotected CR2 (15270) 3.0V.

The Ultrafire 18650's work great for days, 3, 4, I dont know, longer than you would think. The Tenergy 750mAh batteries seem to last most of the waking day, the 15270 800mAh CR2's last about the same as the Tenergy 750mAh's.

 

[quovadis]

Umm ?
Maybe jeff can build us a 7" tube for that green battery ...

May as well convert my 5 iron into a PV while we are at it.

 

[Snarkyone]

Why not a used rocket backpack for holding juice, batteries and whatever around with you everywhere you go and no need for filling and dripping you can just run a direct line from the juice tank on your back to the E-cig, and the other tank can be your powersupply. Leaving your hands free for all doing whatever you need to do, and eliminating the pesky battery issues. It's doable, that would make an awesome mod.

In all seriousness though you said it was ALWAYS the bottom battery that is not drained. It makes me wonder if perhaps the path the electrons are flowing from the bottom to top has a fault in it or short? Perhaps it is only sucking juice from top battery because that's the only one with proper electron path flow...I notice that the batteries are loose as heck in the magnum mod I have even with the pvc inside to help act as a spacer. I think that scenario is highly possible. I just got my mod this last week and my rechargeable batteries and charger arrived today and perhaps I can see this phenomenon for myself, before this time I had to just buy a few CR2's that could not be recharged so I could use it until these arrived. I think it might be easier to just start using CR123's and slapping a resistor in the circuit to dial down the voltage or is this also happening with those as well?

 

[quovadis]

It's happening to me with all double batteries stacked. 3 volt or 3.7 volt stacked.
It's happening with all pv's (2 prodigy, 2 chucks , one SB).

After 30 minutes of vaping bottom battery reads 2~2.5v and top is still fully charged at 3.3v~4volts

 

[highping]

This green battery is longer than a raging erection! How are we supposed to charge it?

I hear ...... works...Oh you mean the battery.
Seriously though...

I've been doing a little reading up on series batteries and it seems the biggest factor is having "matched capacities" (ie if both batteries are exactly 800mAh then no problem.) However, I doubt that the batts we are buying have extremely tight tolerances. Probably +/- 10-15% at best. So with two batts that are "800mAh" one might be 880 and the other 720.

From what I've read, if batts are mismatched, one will drain a little quicker than the other. What happens then is this... let's say one is 3.7V and the other is 3.0V. The one that is 3.7 will actualy begin to "reverse charge" the other, causing it to drop even further...and the cycle snowballs until the lower capacity batt is dead. (or reaches it's cutoff as someone else mentioned earlier)

I have a degree in electronics and this whole idea really doesn't make since to me. Especially the "always bottom batt" part. Unless it is like my first hunch... The (-) of the bottom batt has great contact with the spring and the (+) has good contact with the (-) of the top battery. The (+) of the top battery may have the weakest connection at the atty side. Therefore the bottom batt gets alot better current through it and drains quicker. Still doesn't make since as, all the current through the bottom has to go through the top.
Maybe someone else can elaborate.. Any electrical engineers in here??

 

[Casey C]

It's happening to me with all double batteries stacked. 3 volt or 3.7 volt stacked.
It's happening with all pv's (2 prodigy, 2 chucks , one SB).

After 30 minutes of vaping bottom battery reads 2~2.5v and top is still fully charged at 3.3v~4volts

I'll take a guess, the pcb allows max 1c discharge, bottom battery discharges 1c into the top, the top only allows 1c out, so it maintains its charge, bottom one doesn't

sound plausible? reverse the polarity and see if the top battery loses its charge

those tenergy batteries are rated at <550mA max. discharge
http://www.tenergybattery.com/index...lypage&category_id=21&product_id=390&Itemid=1

the soshine are rated for 1000mA max. continuous
http://www.soshine.com.cn/html/Products10.htm

interestingly, the 14500 is rated 2.5c so 2000mA
http://www.tenergybattery.com/index...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27

most of the 18650s are rated 1500mA
.

"Lithium-ion/polymer batteries are electronically protected against high load currents. Depending on battery type, the discharge is limited to between 1C and 2C. This protection makes the lithium ion unsuitable for biomedical equipment and power tools demanding high inrush currents. "
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-16.htm

 

[quovadis]

So which would be better ?
The soshine?

 

[MaxUT]

This green battery is longer than a raging erection! How are we supposed to charge it?

[too-late humor deleted]

 

[Casey C]

So which would be better ?
The soshine?

nm, power is voltage times current, I need to keep repeating that

 

[quovadis]

I have tons of the purple ones.
The atty needs to be 4 ohms...
Bit rough with a 3 ohm atty.

 

[Casey C]

I have tons of the purple ones.
The atty needs to be 4 ohms...
Bit rough with a 3 ohm atty.

what atomizers have 3 and 4 ohm resistance?

 

[Casey C]

OK, here's what I've come up with, with explanations



from what I understand, parallel wiring splits the load between the batteries, series wiring draws the same load from both to deliver it at twice the voltage

Connecting in Series
When connecting your batteries in Series you are doubling the voltage while maintaining the same capacity rating (amp hours). This might be used in a scooter, Power Wheels kids vehicle, or other applications. Just use a jumper wire between the negative of the first battery and the positive of the second battery. Run your negative wire off of the open connector from the first battery and your positive off of the open connector on your second battery.

which means you are drawing the same amperage from each battery to reach the double voltage, because power = voltage * amperage

Connecting in Parallel
When connecting in Parallel you are doubling the capacity (amp hours) of the battery while maintaining the voltage of one of the individual batteries. This would be used in applications such as laptop batteries, some scooters, some ups backups, etc. Use a jumper wire between the positives of both batteries and another jumper wire between the negatives of both batteries. Connect your positive and negative wires to the same battery to run to your application.

this balances the current draw between batteries, drawing half from each at the same voltage, increasing battery life

Connecting Batteries in Series or Parallel


SO NOW

current = voltage / resistance, unless your batteries suck
and
power = voltage * current
and
keep in mind the listed voltage for batteries is NOT UNDER LOAD, facing only their own internal resistance


the tenergy LiFePO4s list a max discharge current which is way lower than any lithium cobalt oxide batteries I can get info for

so if the true max current draw on the lifePO4 batteries is 550mA (as the Tenergy site lists) then they are only able to deliver like (3.6 i think max volts, times .55 amps =) 1.98 watts? well that sucks



if most rcr123a(s) deliver 1A max discharge like soshine lists, then it delivers (4.2volts times 1 Amp) 4.2 watts?

the 18650(s) are rated 1.5A max discharge, so (4.2 volts times 1.5 Amps) 6.3 watts

and tenergy's 14500 battery is rated 2.5C @ 800mah, so it can deliver 2A, but would be limited to 1.55 amps on a 510 atomizer (4.2 volts over 2.7 ohms) and therefore delivers 6.5watts, making it the best performing power source?


cathode material for the rest of the batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_cobalt_oxide

C-Rate:

The charge and discharge current of a battery is measured in C-rate. Most portable batteries are rated at 1C. This means that a 1000mAh battery would provide 1000mA for one hour if discharged at 1C rate. The same battery discharged at 0.5C would provide 500mA for two hours. At 2C, the 1000mAh battery would deliver 2000mA for 30 minutes. 1C is often referred to as a one-hour discharge; a 0.5C would be a two-hour, and a 0.1C a 10-hour discharge.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-16.htm

So, when faced with a load they can't handle, voltage must drop, if the battery discharge rates are as given

but these numbers must be wrong, or all those people using 'high volt' devices are just nuts


so someone, please, explain this

*Differences in cathode material:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm


battery links are in earlier post

and now the edits

*apparently Lithium Manganese is much better at high discharge rates than Lithium Cobalt Oxide, but has a lower specific energy (energy/volume)

this LiMN batter is rated for 8C
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...N-lithium-rechargeable-battery_p_20-2626.html

explains it right in the info

Safe chemistry LiMN 3.7V rechargeable battery is now available in R123 size. These cells can handle high amperage and is safe to use in series / multi-cell applications. Can be charge with any LiIon battery charger with 4.2V output.

** Apparently LiFePO4 should have a discharge rate similar to LiMN, can't account for the low rating on Tenergy's site, tried giving them a call but only got voice-mail..

*** just spoke to the technical support at Tenergy, I was told the LiFePO4 batteries also have a voltage regulation circuit to drop them down to 3.0V, and that it limits the battery to 550ma discharge, their Lithium Cobalt Oxide rcr123a however can push 3A continuous -
I DO NOT reccomend anyone use the Tenergy LiFePO4 rcr123a for ecig use, go with the Tenergy standard Li-Ion 3.0V
http://www.tenergybattery.com/index...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27
http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc390reliba.html

Also many of the cheap batteries, available from DX and the like, likely have discharge rates similar to soshine (1A) and since there are no specs to confirm this with, I would recommend the above two batteries if you want to be sure you're getting ~2A/6V

 

[quovadis]

The irony is that these blue Tenergy trip even more often than the yellow ones.
I had 4 of these and they kept tripping.

 

[Casey C]

The irony is that these blue Tenergy trip even more often than the yellow ones.
I had 4 of these and they kept tripping.

that's odd, assuming their ratings are correct (guy from Tenergy confirmed their website numbers)

we'll use a 510

(3.2V x2) / 2.7ohms = each battery discharging 2.37 amps

that's within their spec.

even in the 12ms before the voltage regulator kicks in ({4.2V *2} / 2.7ohms = 3.11 amps) it is under the max of 3.5 amps

when you say trip, do you mean they work for 1-2 seconds and cut off?


* tech info on the Tenergy's

 

[Nuck]

It gets even more confusing:

I ordered Tenergy LiFePO4 from battery junction numerous times. Here is a pic of bats from 2 seperate orders:

The bats are identical in everyway except for that little blurb on the side. Both times I ordered LiFePO4 and both times the confirmation reads LiFePO4. So if I got li-ion does that mean I only charge them to 3.6 or do I go to the regular 4.2?

The ones marked Li-ion also have no protection PCB that I can feel so unless it's built into the casing they do no not have any.

Btw..I've been running both types for a good 4 months and have never had either 'trip'.

 

[Casey C]

It gets even more confusing:

I ordered Tenergy LiFePO4 from battery junction numerous times. Here is a pic of bats from 2 seperate orders:



The bats are identical in everyway except for that little blurb on the side. Both times I ordered LiFePO4 and both times the confirmation reads LiFePO4. So if I got li-ion does that mean I only charge them to 3.6 or do I go to the regular 4.2?

The ones marked Li-ion also have no protection PCB that I can feel so unless it's built into the casing they do no not have any.

Btw..I've been running both types for a good 4 months and have never had either 'trip'.

wow, that's some crappy quality control right there

 

[Nuck]

wow, that's some crappy quality control right there

I've written to the supplier to find out what the deal is.

RE: LiFePO4 version.

Ive got a ton of mods that use them in a 2 bat solution. The person you talked to at the website is wrong. I've run them using 6v 801 (3.5ohm) and they kept up month after month. The draw required is 1.7amp which is way above the posted discharge.

Unless the protection is buried in the shell, there is no protection with these bats. I've even stripped one down to check for a pcb.

A short causes them to get extremely hot so I think they lied to you about that as well.

 

[Casey C]

I've written to the supplier to find out what the deal is.

RE: LiFePO4 version.

Ive got a ton of mods that use them in a 2 bat solution. The person you talked to at the website is wrong. I've run them using 6v 801 (3.5ohm) and they kept up month after month. The draw required is 1.7amp which is way above the posted discharge.

Unless the protection is buried in the shell, there is no protection with these bats. I've even stripped one down to check for a pcb.

A short causes them to get extremely hot so I think they lied to you about that as well.

its not protection its voltage regulation, there should be diodes in the positive end, will look something like this

DealExtreme: Customer Uploaded Photo Gallery - Soshine 3.0V CR123A Batteries with Translucent Protective Case (2-Pack)

stick a multimeter on a charged one, should read ~3.2V not the 3.6V of LiFePO4

Of course this is assuming you have the 3V batteries, 3.6V or 3.7V batteries won't have the regulator and will push much more current - but Tenergy seems to only make the 3.0V ones?

 

[Nuck]

its not protection its voltage regulation, there should be diodes in the positive end, will look something like this

DealExtreme: Customer Uploaded Photo Gallery - Soshine 3.0V CR123A Batteries with Translucent Protective Case (2-Pack)

stick a multimeter on a charged one, should read ~3.2V not the 3.6V of LiFePO4

Of course this is assuming you have the 3V batteries, 3.6V or 3.7V batteries won't have the regulator and will push much more current - but Tenergy seems to only make the 3.0V ones?

Fully charged the LiFePO4 ones read 3.6v (these are Tenergy)

Let me charge a set up to full and confirm since its been a while since Ive used them.