Someone spill the beans. Where are they? I don't trust any supplier and lighthound.com will not do wholesale offers.
Alot of these cells are counterfeits of name brands, some use the name brand on the label and advertise mAh levels that the manufacturer doesn't make (think the 5000 mAh 18650 cells you see advertised).
AW's claim to fame is that they test each cell for performance, prior to sale. They do not offer the ones that do not meet their specifications. One thing I like is that they do publish all of the specs, not just what came from the manufacturer, but also the results of their own testing.
From Sony
- Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 15A
- Maximum Rated Discharging Current: 30A
- Maximum Pulse Discharging Current: 60A
I checked the press release from Sony linked to in the previous post and that was the initial announcement of cells with the VTC? chemistry from 2009. If you look at the specs, you will see that for the initial release the cells were 20 amp and 1100 mAh. They have obviously increased the capacity and the current drain in the last 3 1/2 years.
go google around the flashlight weenie forums
you have convinced yourself with 2 hours of googling that you know more than anybody else.
He asked a simple question.
unfortunately the thread wasn't about the General topic of batteries other than where to get 2 specific cells. I pointed him to Efest for a good IMR alternative. What did you do? well...you filled 2 pages of crap spewing things about technology, engineering, and the sham that the entire industry is and how we're all fools. You attacked the 1st response to the OP as another idiot. Then posted on pointlessly once again. Yup we're a bunch of dummies all right.
So please Can...the OP wants to know where to get VTC5's and AW's? Right? It was as simple a question as that....correct? You don't know the answer do you? You don't have an alternative cell right? We don't need your conspiracy theories and so called furthering of internet myths and wasted hours of google knowledge. If you don't have an answer the point is shut the eff up for a change. He asked a simple question.
Although being an ..., he has a point. Just look on our 'local' page, a vendor showing off their batch of VTCs that were shipped to them all simply thrown in a bag. The vendor is stupid to be showing that off "Look, I got a batch of batteries from a supplier who does not comprehend basic lithium battery shipping safety regulations! Surely these are legitimate and not factory rejects stolen out of a chinese dumpster, or random desay batteries thrown in a green wrapper and VTC5 written in sharpie!"
Yes, the respectable battery suppliers (efest, xtar) have rewrapped vtc's, but .... us because they're not in a generic green wrapper with "sony vtc5" written in sharpie on a sticker on it.
Back to the OP's original question, here is AW's sales thread in the Candlepower Marketplace forum. He has been in business for nine years or so and has a great reputation. If there was a problem with his product, I would imagine that we would have heard about it by now. Look through it, read the reviews and tests elsewhere in the forum and form your own opinion.
For whatever reason he has chosen to sell through forums instead of using a web site. I personally don't understand it but apparently those channels are working just fine for him. He seems to have a pretty thriving business and there is certainly a lot of demand.
The specs for each cell is inside the post. I would PM him on the forum to find out what kind of deal you can get for wholesale quantities, but you will probably not like the price.
AW Sales Thread - CPF Marketplace
And +1 for Efest. I purchase all of my cells directly from them. Besides Efest-branded cells, you can also get Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo, Trustfire and NCR cells there too. Not really a negative but be advised that Efest is honest on the customs invoice so you will sometimes get nailed with extra customs fees from the shipping company. Also, depending on the current mood / inclination of the shipping services (DHL, UPS, EMS) regarding li-ion cells, you might see some delays. The last shipment I had went back and forth between them as they decided whether or not they wanted to transport the cells. Finally, they ended up being shipped by TNT transport. Overall time from order to delivery was 14 days. Also expect to pay a higher shipping rate for hazardous goods. In fact, if you also order goods other than li-ion cells like chargers or accessories, be sure that they separate the shipments as those goods will be shipped at a lower rate.
He has been in business for nine years or so and has a great reputation. If there was a problem with his product, I would imagine that we would have heard about it by now.
Yes, the respectable battery suppliers (efest, xtar) have rewrapped vtc's, but .... us because they're not in a generic green wrapper with "sony vtc5" written in sharpie on a sticker on it.
For whatever reason he has chosen to sell through forums instead of using a web site. I personally don't understand it but apparently
There are only a few true, decent manufacturers of lithium ion cells. Sony, Panasonic, NCR. I believe that a company called Desay (sp??), in China also makes decent cells.
After manufacture, they grade the cells. The top grade cells go to companies that are making battery packs for computers. The lesser grade cells (but still good) are either sold with the manufacturers' label (ie. Sony VTC4) to wholesalers or parcelled out to reputable companies that are going to slap a label on them (think Efest and AW). Then finally you have the dreck. These, along with cells that were actually recouped from used or defective computer battery packs are relabelled and unfortunately make up a large portion of the cells being sold out of China. Alot of these cells are counterfeits of name brands, some use the name brand on the label and advertise mAh levels that the manufacturer doesn't make (think the 5000 mAh 18650 cells you see advertised).
The true AW cells are sold by Andrew Wang directly. I do believe he has a couple of people he works with in the states that distribute / resell them. One used to have a thread on ECF. Even at large wholesale levels, they are VERY expensive. That is why I don't carry them. No way to make any real money (at least with MY customer base)
I can almost guarantee that any offers for AW batteries you get via email or Alibaba are pawning off fakes. Vaping vendors offering them at price levels that compare to EFest, EHome, etc. are probably selling fakes (maybe unknown to them).
I am not a "fanboy" of AW but I have purchased them retail (from Super T - very reputable) and found them to be excellent if not overpriced cells. AW's claim to fame is that they test each cell for performance, prior to sale. They do not offer the ones that do not meet their specifications. One thing I like is that they do publish all of the specs, not just what came from the manufacturer, but also the results of their own testing.
As far as the specs on the VTC4, there are different current ratings.
From Sony
- Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 15A
- Maximum Rated Discharging Current: 30A
- Maximum Pulse Discharging Current: 60A
I checked the press release from Sony linked to in the previous post and that was the initial announcement of cells with the VTC? chemistry from 2009. If you look at the specs, you will see that for the initial release the cells were 20 amp and 1100 mAh. They have obviously increased the capacity and the current drain in the last 3 1/2 years.
As far as the VTC5, I haven't seen one yet but I have no reason to believe that Sony hasn't released it. A company called Illumination Supply (flashlight dealer) has ridiculously low prices on cells and chargers. I scalped an image from their site and it looks like the real C4s (with a different model number of course).
View attachment 327342
If you are looking for battery or charger information, the best reviews and technical information can be found on the flashlight forums. Here is a link on the candlepower forum to one thread where these guys discuss AW cells. Link - AW Battery Thread. I believe that AW has a sales thread in the CPF Marketplace.
Besides the candlepower forum (CPF), there is Link - BudgetLightForum.com, Link - Flashlight Forums.
I trust these guys a lot more than most folks here on ECF. They test the crap out of these things and are highly critical.
Back to the OP's original question, here is AW's sales thread in the Candlepower Marketplace forum. He has been in business for nine years or so and has a great reputation. If there was a problem with his product, I would imagine that we would have heard about it by now. Look through it, read the reviews and tests elsewhere in the forum and form your own opinion.
For whatever reason he has chosen to sell through forums instead of using a web site. I personally don't understand it but apparently those channels are working just fine for him. He seems to have a pretty thriving business and there is certainly a lot of demand.
The specs for each cell is inside the post. I would PM him on the forum to find out what kind of deal you can get for wholesale quantities, but you will probably not like the price.
AW Sales Thread - CPF Marketplace
And +1 for Efest. I purchase all of my cells directly from them. Besides Efest-branded cells, you can also get Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo, Trustfire and NCR cells there too. Not really a negative but be advised that Efest is honest on the customs invoice so you will sometimes get nailed with extra customs fees from the shipping company. Also, depending on the current mood / inclination of the shipping services (DHL, UPS, EMS) regarding li-ion cells, you might see some delays. The last shipment I had went back and forth between them as they decided whether or not they wanted to transport the cells. Finally, they ended up being shipped by TNT transport. Overall time from order to delivery was 14 days. Also expect to pay a higher shipping rate for hazardous goods. In fact, if you also order goods other than li-ion cells like chargers or accessories, be sure that they separate the shipments as those goods will be shipped at a lower rate.