Someone spill the beans. Where are they? I don't trust any supplier and lighthound.com will not do wholesale offers.
real VTC5 and AW IMR batteries - the elephant in the room
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Your elephant in the room is that "AW" batteries are cheap China knockoffs that have grown to legendary status from everyone on the net playing them up and repeating each other. AW doesn't even have a website for goodnessake.
Any real manufacture of Lithium Ion batteries, say Panasonic for example only sells them through their industrial wholesale division, and will only sell them to those who are capable of working with them. You must submit your product design including protection circuit for them to make the sale for you. They don't need some idiot blowing it up in an unprotected piece of garbage making them look bad. These are not Duracell AA batteries, although many foolish modders treat them like they are.
Still want the "AW" batteries? Talk to your friendly spammer and if they don't have them, I'm sure they will get whatever you wanted from AW to Sony printed on them for you. Same thing.
Any real manufacture of Lithium Ion batteries, say Panasonic for example only sells them through their industrial wholesale division, and will only sell them to those who are capable of working with them. You must submit your product design including protection circuit for them to make the sale for you. They don't need some idiot blowing it up in an unprotected piece of garbage making them look bad. These are not Duracell AA batteries, although many foolish modders treat them like they are.
Still want the "AW" batteries? Talk to your friendly spammer and if they don't have them, I'm sure they will get whatever you wanted from AW to Sony printed on them for you. Same thing.
Bit of research on the "Sony VTC5" - a simple google search and you will find that it doesn't even bring up Sony's website! Just a whole bunch of vape sites.
I'd put money on it they are not Sony. Call Sony and try to buy dirrect. They will tell you to fly a kite, they are a product sold to manufactures of lithium ion packs and for use in products designed for them, not as a Duracell 'C" battery replacement. But everyone has them.. LOL.. hmmmmmmm
Want even a bigger laugh.. Google image search "VTC5" and look closely at the picture. Well you don't have to look close. Every shade of green imaginable, some have small printing on them, some have large printing, some have a sticker on them LOL Look closely at the ring on the positive terminal. Some are concave, some are convex, some even have 2 rings.
Specs are all over the map from 20amps to 50amps - whatever you need them to be.
It's like shopping for "Nike" shoes and CK at a flea market in Chinatown. LOL
Bit more research and I find Sony's site, to find Sony's picture looks nothing like what most people are selling, other than they are green abet a different shade, and Sony only claims a 20A not 50A or whatever max current!
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200908/09-083E/
This whole industry is starting to make the "you won a vacation" phone call industry look legit.
I'd put money on it they are not Sony. Call Sony and try to buy dirrect. They will tell you to fly a kite, they are a product sold to manufactures of lithium ion packs and for use in products designed for them, not as a Duracell 'C" battery replacement. But everyone has them.. LOL.. hmmmmmmm
Want even a bigger laugh.. Google image search "VTC5" and look closely at the picture. Well you don't have to look close. Every shade of green imaginable, some have small printing on them, some have large printing, some have a sticker on them LOL Look closely at the ring on the positive terminal. Some are concave, some are convex, some even have 2 rings.
Specs are all over the map from 20amps to 50amps - whatever you need them to be.
It's like shopping for "Nike" shoes and CK at a flea market in Chinatown. LOL
Bit more research and I find Sony's site, to find Sony's picture looks nothing like what most people are selling, other than they are green abet a different shade, and Sony only claims a 20A not 50A or whatever max current!
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200908/09-083E/
This whole industry is starting to make the "you won a vacation" phone call industry look legit.
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There are only a few true, decent manufacturers of lithium ion cells. Sony, Panasonic, NCR. I believe that a company called Desay (sp??), in China also makes decent cells.
After manufacture, they grade the cells. The top grade cells go to companies that are making battery packs for computers. The lesser grade cells (but still good) are either sold with the manufacturers' label (ie. Sony VTC4) to wholesalers or parcelled out to reputable companies that are going to slap a label on them (think Efest and AW). Then finally you have the dreck. These, along with cells that were actually recouped from used or defective computer battery packs are relabelled and unfortunately make up a large portion of the cells being sold out of China. Alot of these cells are counterfeits of name brands, some use the name brand on the label and advertise mAh levels that the manufacturer doesn't make (think the 5000 mAh 18650 cells you see advertised).
The true AW cells are sold by Andrew Wang directly. I do believe he has a couple of people he works with in the states that distribute / resell them. One used to have a thread on ECF. Even at large wholesale levels, they are VERY expensive. That is why I don't carry them. No way to make any real money (at least with MY customer base)
I can almost guarantee that any offers for AW batteries you get via email or Alibaba are pawning off fakes. Vaping vendors offering them at price levels that compare to EFest, EHome, etc. are probably selling fakes (maybe unknown to them).
I am not a "fanboy" of AW but I have purchased them retail (from Super T - very reputable) and found them to be excellent if not overpriced cells. AW's claim to fame is that they test each cell for performance, prior to sale. They do not offer the ones that do not meet their specifications. One thing I like is that they do publish all of the specs, not just what came from the manufacturer, but also the results of their own testing.
As far as the specs on the VTC4, there are different current ratings.
From Sony
I checked the press release from Sony linked to in the previous post and that was the initial announcement of cells with the VTC? chemistry from 2009. If you look at the specs, you will see that for the initial release the cells were 20 amp and 1100 mAh. They have obviously increased the capacity and the current drain in the last 3 1/2 years.
As far as the VTC5, I haven't seen one yet but I have no reason to believe that Sony hasn't released it. A company called Illumination Supply (flashlight dealer) has ridiculously low prices on cells and chargers. I scalped an image from their site and it looks like the real C4s (with a different model number of course).
If you are looking for battery or charger information, the best reviews and technical information can be found on the flashlight forums. Here is a link on the candlepower forum to one thread where these guys discuss AW cells. Link - AW Battery Thread. I believe that AW has a sales thread in the CPF Marketplace.
Besides the candlepower forum (CPF), there is Link - BudgetLightForum.com, Link - Flashlight Forums.
I trust these guys a lot more than most folks here on ECF. They test the crap out of these things and are highly critical.
After manufacture, they grade the cells. The top grade cells go to companies that are making battery packs for computers. The lesser grade cells (but still good) are either sold with the manufacturers' label (ie. Sony VTC4) to wholesalers or parcelled out to reputable companies that are going to slap a label on them (think Efest and AW). Then finally you have the dreck. These, along with cells that were actually recouped from used or defective computer battery packs are relabelled and unfortunately make up a large portion of the cells being sold out of China. Alot of these cells are counterfeits of name brands, some use the name brand on the label and advertise mAh levels that the manufacturer doesn't make (think the 5000 mAh 18650 cells you see advertised).
The true AW cells are sold by Andrew Wang directly. I do believe he has a couple of people he works with in the states that distribute / resell them. One used to have a thread on ECF. Even at large wholesale levels, they are VERY expensive. That is why I don't carry them. No way to make any real money (at least with MY customer base)
I can almost guarantee that any offers for AW batteries you get via email or Alibaba are pawning off fakes. Vaping vendors offering them at price levels that compare to EFest, EHome, etc. are probably selling fakes (maybe unknown to them).
I am not a "fanboy" of AW but I have purchased them retail (from Super T - very reputable) and found them to be excellent if not overpriced cells. AW's claim to fame is that they test each cell for performance, prior to sale. They do not offer the ones that do not meet their specifications. One thing I like is that they do publish all of the specs, not just what came from the manufacturer, but also the results of their own testing.
As far as the specs on the VTC4, there are different current ratings.
From Sony
- Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 15A
- Maximum Rated Discharging Current: 30A
- Maximum Pulse Discharging Current: 60A
I checked the press release from Sony linked to in the previous post and that was the initial announcement of cells with the VTC? chemistry from 2009. If you look at the specs, you will see that for the initial release the cells were 20 amp and 1100 mAh. They have obviously increased the capacity and the current drain in the last 3 1/2 years.
As far as the VTC5, I haven't seen one yet but I have no reason to believe that Sony hasn't released it. A company called Illumination Supply (flashlight dealer) has ridiculously low prices on cells and chargers. I scalped an image from their site and it looks like the real C4s (with a different model number of course).
If you are looking for battery or charger information, the best reviews and technical information can be found on the flashlight forums. Here is a link on the candlepower forum to one thread where these guys discuss AW cells. Link - AW Battery Thread. I believe that AW has a sales thread in the CPF Marketplace.
Besides the candlepower forum (CPF), there is Link - BudgetLightForum.com, Link - Flashlight Forums.
I trust these guys a lot more than most folks here on ECF. They test the crap out of these things and are highly critical.
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Tom,
With all due respect, what you have posted is just a continuation of unfounded rumors.
What do you have to backup the following..
The danger here isn't overstating its total capacity mAh. Worst that happens here is the battery last 2 hours instead of 4. Oh well. The issue is the amp rating of the batteries is overstated. Drawing too much current over stresses the battery making for a dangerous condition.
Where does one find these specs? There is some magical Andrew Wang guy somewhere - yet we can't even find his website let alone his specs.
Testing batteries do not redefine their specs. The specs are based on the chemistry and physical properties of the battery. An amp rating is an engineered safety limit based on what the battery is. You can't perform some "test" then decide you can increase the rating of a battery over what it was engineered for.
If exposing the battery to an over current condition causes 1 out of 1,000 to fail, (which is unacceptable for a consumer products and odds are you will open yourself to a nasty lawsuit) how do you hand test batteries for that? You can't.
Truth is I could source batteries in China - spec them red with yellow pokadots, put EV on them. Send out 20 "fanboy" drones to post everywhere how great my batteries are - they are used to power department of defense nuclear subs - insert some cute story they are hand selected by the Chinese Stephen Hawking - an I could be the next AW.
Would you care to post the link from Sony where you found this information. See this is the problem, someone says something on the net and it is taken as fact. I have a feeling you got the amp rating from some posting, just like yours here, rather than from the manufacture. That is the danger of unsupported internet information. Type something and it must be fact.
*** Sorry misread that - 60A PULSE current. That is a rapid on/off cycle, not continuous like in a dumb on/off only mechanical mod. So the battery has a 30A max NOT 60A. Manufactures don't just pull these limits from thin air to be ignored.
Someone can be "highly critical" and sound like an expert. Maybe they are - and what they say should agree with what the manufacture says. All legit manufactures have specs on their battery product. Therefor if correct it should be very easy to backup one's expert opinion with the manufactures spec. I am not seeing that... I'm not even seeing specs at all.
With all due respect, what you have posted is just a continuation of unfounded rumors.
What do you have to backup the following..
The danger here isn't overstating its total capacity mAh. Worst that happens here is the battery last 2 hours instead of 4. Oh well. The issue is the amp rating of the batteries is overstated. Drawing too much current over stresses the battery making for a dangerous condition.
Where does one find these specs? There is some magical Andrew Wang guy somewhere - yet we can't even find his website let alone his specs.
Testing batteries do not redefine their specs. The specs are based on the chemistry and physical properties of the battery. An amp rating is an engineered safety limit based on what the battery is. You can't perform some "test" then decide you can increase the rating of a battery over what it was engineered for.
If exposing the battery to an over current condition causes 1 out of 1,000 to fail, (which is unacceptable for a consumer products and odds are you will open yourself to a nasty lawsuit) how do you hand test batteries for that? You can't.
Truth is I could source batteries in China - spec them red with yellow pokadots, put EV on them. Send out 20 "fanboy" drones to post everywhere how great my batteries are - they are used to power department of defense nuclear subs - insert some cute story they are hand selected by the Chinese Stephen Hawking - an I could be the next AW.
Would you care to post the link from Sony where you found this information. See this is the problem, someone says something on the net and it is taken as fact. I have a feeling you got the amp rating from some posting, just like yours here, rather than from the manufacture. That is the danger of unsupported internet information. Type something and it must be fact.
*** Sorry misread that - 60A PULSE current. That is a rapid on/off cycle, not continuous like in a dumb on/off only mechanical mod. So the battery has a 30A max NOT 60A. Manufactures don't just pull these limits from thin air to be ignored.
Someone can be "highly critical" and sound like an expert. Maybe they are - and what they say should agree with what the manufacture says. All legit manufactures have specs on their battery product. Therefor if correct it should be very easy to backup one's expert opinion with the manufactures spec. I am not seeing that... I'm not even seeing specs at all.
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Lets look at a consumer product for advancements in lithium ion batteries
iPhone 3G (2008) - 1220 mah
iphone 5 (2012) - 1440 mah in a bigger phone.
iphone 5S (2013) - 1570 mah
Apple missed to boat on the "new" technology? Only in e-cigarette land are the spec for lithium ion batteries doubling and tripling overnight.
Milwaukee Tools - "Red Lithium 12V" which if you pull apart is 3 18650 batteries. Their pack of 3 is rated at 1.5 Ah or 1,500 mah or 500 mah per cell.
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/accessories/batteries-and-chargers/48-11-2401
But in e-cig land we have single 18650 batteries that do 5,000 mah or 5 Ah each?
Wow both these manufactures really missed to boat on their flagship products. Time to fire their engineering department and hire e-cigarette mod users from the forums, vendor and some Andrew Wang guy.
iPhone 3G (2008) - 1220 mah
iphone 5 (2012) - 1440 mah in a bigger phone.
iphone 5S (2013) - 1570 mah
Apple missed to boat on the "new" technology? Only in e-cigarette land are the spec for lithium ion batteries doubling and tripling overnight.
Milwaukee Tools - "Red Lithium 12V" which if you pull apart is 3 18650 batteries. Their pack of 3 is rated at 1.5 Ah or 1,500 mah or 500 mah per cell.
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/accessories/batteries-and-chargers/48-11-2401
But in e-cig land we have single 18650 batteries that do 5,000 mah or 5 Ah each?
Wow both these manufactures really missed to boat on their flagship products. Time to fire their engineering department and hire e-cigarette mod users from the forums, vendor and some Andrew Wang guy.
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Can you have too much time on your hands. Why do you have to create an argument on every post that goes up? Seriously.
dude asked a question....you don't know crap about batteries but now you're an expert....and you'll spend hours googling to prove your point....whatever floats your boat though. I don't know why i let it bother me but you really bother me. If you can't be helpful STF.
To the OP I don't know where to get AWs but Efest sells a good IMR at a good price point. AW is like chasing a ghost so don;t bother. The theory behind testing and matching is fine but too hard to tell authentic. The Efest are solid and plenty of discharge test results are published out there. You can buy direct from them.
Oh yeah Can...go google around the flashlight weenie forums if you want to get educated by alot of smart people and see test results....or the RC communities who punish batteries way the eff more than we do or could in a mod.
OK blast away Can I'll check it out later for a pick me up.
dude asked a question....you don't know crap about batteries but now you're an expert....and you'll spend hours googling to prove your point....whatever floats your boat though. I don't know why i let it bother me but you really bother me. If you can't be helpful STF.
To the OP I don't know where to get AWs but Efest sells a good IMR at a good price point. AW is like chasing a ghost so don;t bother. The theory behind testing and matching is fine but too hard to tell authentic. The Efest are solid and plenty of discharge test results are published out there. You can buy direct from them.
Oh yeah Can...go google around the flashlight weenie forums if you want to get educated by alot of smart people and see test results....or the RC communities who punish batteries way the eff more than we do or could in a mod.
OK blast away Can I'll check it out later for a pick me up.
Yes, I always take my advice from someone who has the time and interest to modify flashlights.
You are right I don't know crap about batteries. That is why one who realizes their own limitation consults with an expert, validated source in this case the battery manufacture. It only takes a layman to figure out what the manufactures are saying is NOT what is "common knowledge" in the e-cig forums. Even a fool should be able to figure out who is correct.
What I have done here should be the minimum criteria between someone who should be retailing something, and someone who is a dangerous clown and doesn't even know it.
Problem is when I deflate people's bubble, that they are not the experts their claim to be. They get angry and defensive. Oh well.. That is their problem not mine.
From a supplier's perspective - which is all that really matters here - we have a nasty situation on our hands. Mislabel our products - and or have no clue what they really are - we make ourselves liable to some really really really nasty lawsuits. I think this is a better answer to the OP than giving him to road map to a world of potential hurt.
I strongly suspect that the reason that many manufactures are not offering batteries with their mods is to avoid liability issues. Makes it the problem of the retailer when they recommend a battery ill suited for the task, and nothing to base their selection on. Not only is that a cheap insurance policy by passing the buck, they do not now have to overstate the battery capacities to keep up with a market that is outright lying about the batteries.
Flaslight_man_2001 from the flashlight forums can disappear when his stupid advice turns bad. We are retailers with business who can't.
If you are not an expert, and no one is an expert on everything, there is a process of due diligence that must be completed. Referencing forum posts is not completing that task.
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15 mins actually, the sad thing is that's all it seems to take.
Which you have still yet to answer...........
After what I wrote you are second guessing yourself and worried you response is going to be viewed as foolish - not just by me but the other professionals here. That's the real problem. The cat got you tongue son, as you've painted yourself into a corner you can't get out of.
Yes yes, answer with another rambling critique of me - I enjoy them for their comedy factor as much as the next guy. Then I'll poke you with a stick again, and you will ramble some more, and on and on. My point was made a good page ago anyhow then demonstrated perfectly by you. Couldn't have asked for better.
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Possible I did get you wrong and you are a rocket scientist LOL.. I love this one,
"The lower design limits of the board is 3V ... we have found that lower limit to actually be a bit higher at 3.1V. What this means is if you go sub-ohm and attempt a Power setting lower than basic laws of physics would allow, that when you fire it your screen suddenly displays a higher Power output than your setting. The display is nice in this aspect ...
To further our example: we have a 0.7ohm coil on our test unit and set it to 7W. The display then suggests an output voltage of 2.21V will be needed to achieve the 7W. Since the board in reality cannot go below 3.0-3.1V when you fire it in this example the REAL output jumps to 13W+ and the voltage goes to a REAL 3.1V. Its beyond its lower limits and fires at its real minimum capabilities given the atty resistance. So keep this in mind .... this is normal and not a malfunction. Again its for advanced users." <--- lol
So professional and scientific sounding, and such fascination over Ohms law you could win the JR high science fair!
The type of expert who could write a scientific masterpiece of discovery like that surly should be able to answer the OP's question - even if they can't find more than just efests for their own site.
So please, answer the OP's post and make a fool of yourslef (yes I will point out why) or try to make a fool out of me, making a fool out of yourself (I'll just post some more of your wonderful tech talk from your site) or crawl away with your tail between your legs and leave me disappointed.
"The lower design limits of the board is 3V ... we have found that lower limit to actually be a bit higher at 3.1V. What this means is if you go sub-ohm and attempt a Power setting lower than basic laws of physics would allow, that when you fire it your screen suddenly displays a higher Power output than your setting. The display is nice in this aspect ...
To further our example: we have a 0.7ohm coil on our test unit and set it to 7W. The display then suggests an output voltage of 2.21V will be needed to achieve the 7W. Since the board in reality cannot go below 3.0-3.1V when you fire it in this example the REAL output jumps to 13W+ and the voltage goes to a REAL 3.1V. Its beyond its lower limits and fires at its real minimum capabilities given the atty resistance. So keep this in mind .... this is normal and not a malfunction. Again its for advanced users." <--- lol
So professional and scientific sounding, and such fascination over Ohms law you could win the JR high science fair!
The type of expert who could write a scientific masterpiece of discovery like that surly should be able to answer the OP's question - even if they can't find more than just efests for their own site.
So please, answer the OP's post and make a fool of yourslef (yes I will point out why) or try to make a fool out of me, making a fool out of yourself (I'll just post some more of your wonderful tech talk from your site) or crawl away with your tail between your legs and leave me disappointed.
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Although being an ..., he has a point. Just look on our 'local' page, a vendor showing off their batch of VTCs that were shipped to them all simply thrown in a bag. The vendor is stupid to be showing that off "Look, I got a batch of batteries from a supplier who does not comprehend basic lithium battery shipping safety regulations! Surely these are legitimate and not factory rejects stolen out of a chinese dumpster, or random desay batteries thrown in a green wrapper and VTC5 written in sharpie!"
Yes, the respectable battery suppliers (efest, xtar) have rewrapped vtc's, but .... us because they're not in a generic green wrapper with "sony vtc5" written in sharpie on a sticker on it.
Back to the OP's original question, here is AW's sales thread in the Candlepower Marketplace forum. He has been in business for nine years or so and has a great reputation. If there was a problem with his product, I would imagine that we would have heard about it by now. Look through it, read the reviews and tests elsewhere in the forum and form your own opinion.
For whatever reason he has chosen to sell through forums instead of using a web site. I personally don't understand it but apparently those channels are working just fine for him. He seems to have a pretty thriving business and there is certainly a lot of demand.
The specs for each cell is inside the post. I would PM him on the forum to find out what kind of deal you can get for wholesale quantities, but you will probably not like the price.
AW Sales Thread - CPF Marketplace
And +1 for Efest. I purchase all of my cells directly from them. Besides Efest-branded cells, you can also get Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo, Trustfire and NCR cells there too. Not really a negative but be advised that Efest is honest on the customs invoice so you will sometimes get nailed with extra customs fees from the shipping company. Also, depending on the current mood / inclination of the shipping services (DHL, UPS, EMS) regarding li-ion cells, you might see some delays. The last shipment I had went back and forth between them as they decided whether or not they wanted to transport the cells. Finally, they ended up being shipped by TNT transport. Overall time from order to delivery was 14 days. Also expect to pay a higher shipping rate for hazardous goods. In fact, if you also order goods other than li-ion cells like chargers or accessories, be sure that they separate the shipments as those goods will be shipped at a lower rate.
For whatever reason he has chosen to sell through forums instead of using a web site. I personally don't understand it but apparently those channels are working just fine for him. He seems to have a pretty thriving business and there is certainly a lot of demand.
The specs for each cell is inside the post. I would PM him on the forum to find out what kind of deal you can get for wholesale quantities, but you will probably not like the price.
AW Sales Thread - CPF Marketplace
And +1 for Efest. I purchase all of my cells directly from them. Besides Efest-branded cells, you can also get Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo, Trustfire and NCR cells there too. Not really a negative but be advised that Efest is honest on the customs invoice so you will sometimes get nailed with extra customs fees from the shipping company. Also, depending on the current mood / inclination of the shipping services (DHL, UPS, EMS) regarding li-ion cells, you might see some delays. The last shipment I had went back and forth between them as they decided whether or not they wanted to transport the cells. Finally, they ended up being shipped by TNT transport. Overall time from order to delivery was 14 days. Also expect to pay a higher shipping rate for hazardous goods. In fact, if you also order goods other than li-ion cells like chargers or accessories, be sure that they separate the shipments as those goods will be shipped at a lower rate.
Good point on the shipping from Efest... my experience is DHL has recently refused to carry them but UPS hasn't been an issue although significantly more expensive.
The problem is you don't hear the negative in the forums.
Had that problem with cleaning atomizers. People would post how cleaning their atomizer in cat piss worked great. It probably did for the 2 minutes before writing the post about how they found the magic cleaner. But then when 5 minutes later the atomizer craps out as a result, do you think they update their post? Of course not, that would make them look stupid. If our friend Onedesign here blew his hand off as a result of his advice, do you think he's the sort of guy who would update his information?
This is why forum advice is so inaccurate. I had many a customer destroy an atomizer with internet cleaning advice. That harmless in the end, but batteries are not.
If you want to push the envelop here, it only makes sense to get proper specs that agree with what you are doing. Internet rumor and sketchy Chinese websites are not reliable.
You are right. These Chinese batteries are more than likely off the same assembly line as the real ones like Sony ect.
Its not like these Chinese battery companies like Andrew Wang have the resources to develop their own. So its a re-brand job.
The problem I have with that is;
1) we don't know which batteries have been re-branded here, it might be a VT5 or it might not be, its just as easy to relabel another product.
2) These magical specs from the forums, and cheaply made Chinese websites are MORE than any of the real manufacture's websites state. From Sony, the VT5 is good for 20 amps. From the Chinese shop its good for 50 amps. Not very likely! This becomes a bigger problem when you have people being foolish and are actually using it to 50 amps, unprotected - made worse when your site actually recommends that.
The problem here is that pushing the spec isn't going to lead to catastrophic failure each time. You can take the said battery, short it out to 50 amps, film it, stick it on Youtube as proof, but that for us is meaningless. Maybe 999 times out of 1,000 over stressing the battery to 50 amps might just work. The reason for the limit is the 1 out of 1,000 times. The average consumer/internet battery expert can play the 1:1,000 odds and win. As a retailer who has sold 1,000 of them - they can't - because its a certainty it will happen, and can come back on them.
All you need is one explosion as a retailer - just one - and you are finished.
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Let me fill you in on one reason.
He's untraceable so he would have zero product liability. Let's say you follow his advice with his products. Something goes wrong, and customer is hurt by the product and out for blood. In the case of using a real Sony battery - if you advice was what they specified - clearly you are not liable, Sony is. The litigation would be against Sony, not you at this point. Now try that with "Andrew Wang" and what he told you on the forums. For one thing Andrew Wang won't be around to sue, and second you are going to get laughed at having used internet forums as your basis for your advice. You are stuck holding the hot potato with nowhere to pass it off to.
As an added bonus to him, unlike if Sony batteries failed which would harm their reputation and put their battery division in question. If his product fail it very easy to fold up shop, and reopen as "BL" batteries, with "Bruce Lee" back on the forums again.
Tom the man's name is Wan Hoi, known to the English community as Andrew Wan
Don't push Efest batteries too hard here. They are great out of the gate but fall short in the stretch. They start to wane around 5-6 months vice 10m for AWs. This has been proven in both the field and a battery analyser. It is believed that internal resistance builds up more rapidly than other cells. As the rock content increases so does internal resistance which exacerbates the problem further. Considering that the price point is not 1/2 as much, cost for your money is better spent on a different cell.
Field tests was from vapers who noticed this way before the sub Ohm geeks appeared and thought it was in their head, it wasn't. I am allowing my stock to deplete through attrition and wont be renewing it.
i must say, if i knew the kind of ....storm my simple question would cause, I may have well just declined to open this thread. It is very amusing however. And thank you all for participating. I will stick with Efest only because people are not ready to spend the correct amount on a quality product - we see this ourselves with the epidemic of clones v. original units.
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