Regarding ECF Safety Specification For Metal Tube Mods

[Rocketman]

We could put up stickies for the Noob to read, and get points.
They could then exchange then for tokens.
Then exchange the tokens for credits.

The credits could then be applied to the purchase of a mod with an appropriate skill level.

You do have to drive them to at least read the stickies.



Bet we end up with counterfeit tokens being offered in the classifieds.



Karmachine,
I just don't see many potential customers wanting to learn about mod safety. They will end up searching for a mod with the best rating, and buy that. Then brag about it. And show it off. Still having no idea what could go wrong.

One of the most frequently asked questions about stacked battery mod:

Will these batteries fit in this mod?

 

[rolygate]

Batteries will always outgas inside mods and there is absolutely no way to stop that.

It happens for beginners - the last blowup of 2011 was for a complete beginner who bought one and put the wrong batteries in because there were no instructions from the vendor, who was out of stock at the time.

It happens for highly experienced users - the blowup recently in FL happened to a 2-year's experience of mods highly-experienced vaper.

Batteries will always fail inside mods.

The problem is how to stop mods exploding in people's faces. A vaper's experience, or the batteries they 'think' they have, or the precautions they take, are irrelevant. One day they will make a mistake through no fault of their own.

Only a mod can explode.

And it needs to have $5 or $10 of simple work omitted.

 

[Rocketman]

It reminds me of the cute little cartoon folks used to post in their cubicle:

Bang Head Here.

You head up this path, no, that won't work, change directions, no, that won't work either.
You know what yo want to accomplish but something always gets in the way.
You guidelines idea is good. My tokens idea was bad
Mod ratings, educating both users and vendors, giving a grade for safety features incorporated, recommending cells, chemistry, multimeters, charging bags, so many things, my brain hurts.

 

[Rocketman]

an abused or mistreated mod can EXPLODE

 

[Rocketman]

My editor used to strike "always" "never" from anything technical I wrote.

Those are journalistic terms.

Sometimes, seldom would be good enough for e-cigs.

A plastic box mod that had a severe venting event and blew the cell's spiral wrap into the user's face would be about as bad as the 9mm connector coming out the back side of his neck from an abused metal mod.

Relying on the user to drop a hot mod should work, but people grab hot things all the time and take several seconds to realize they are burning the heck out of their hand. Sometimes the smell of burning flesh is the give away.
People freeze in a crisis. Grip the steering wheel and pump the gas to stop. Relying on a logical response to protect one's self in a crisis may be illogical.

 

[cbrociuos]

So all mods are badly designed and there is nothing you can do to change that based on your own words, also based on imperical evidence all batteries go boom. So taking this one step further the only way to end this is to do away with BATTERIES.....

I know lets light the juice on fire with a match, nah that doesn't work, Oh I know we can soak some plant matter in the ejuice and burn that instead....You know I bet you could make quite an industry selling plant products as a safe alternative to vaping, those batteries are so damn dangerous.

Well the plant should have a kick to it, Oh I know Tobacco, it may cause cancer but that is a long term problem BUT it is so much safer then a bomb exploding in your face....................What about the second hand smoke, well you know then new ecigarettes when they explode shoot ripped up pieces of metal shards all around the room, still collaterel damage in both cases so not really a factor.

I wonder how many people you are sending running back to big tobacco.......

LOL! ive always been a huge fan of sarcasm.

lets all try to remember roly is trying to do some good here. i hope he is getting a lot of good input from manufacturers forum.

 

[Semiretired]

One of the most frequently asked questions about stacked battery mod:

Will these batteries fit in this mod?

I still like the - If I mix these two different size batteries - I can get 2000 more mah into my mod...

 

[Rocketman]

cbro,
I hope so too
This thread may be like the GPS I would take on family vacation. I would give it to my young daughter in the back seat and tell her "watch the little man" "I have to follow the little man, if we get off track, tell me, OK"

No more "are we there yet". Busy watching the little man

 

[Semiretired]

They did redesign 3 wheel ATV's - accident rate to high... So this also has application... Can you imagine the governments definition of an acceptable PV - forget mods...

 

[Rocketman]

Stacked battery mod with air bags.
and redesigning 3 wheelers just meant daddy got a 4 wheeler and junior got the old 3 wheeler.

 

[Rocketman]

deleted......
by Rocket

 

[DC2]

Now the noob playing with the battery that exploded and bought a unit that uses stackable batteries knew what they were buying, hell yea they were buying a monster PV so they could be cool, and just like the idiot that bought a crotch rocket for his first motorcycle crashed it into the wall. Is it the noobs fault, no you are right it isn't it is the person that sold the noob the bike in the first place, oh wait that isn't how the law works, the guy had a licensce and he wrecked his bike and killed himself not being an educated rider.

Bad analogy...

Any person with a fraction of a brain understands without being told that motorcycles are dangerous.
Very few people know that an electronic cigarette battery can be dangerous.

If it could be assured that all people that buy a metal tube mod were informed of battery safety...
And if it could be assured that all people that buy a metal tube mod understood that information on battery safety...

But the problem is that neither of those things can be assured.

 

[DC2]

I feel that the inherent risks are just as obvious in both cases. Honestly anyone that buys something without full knowledge of what they are buying is extremely negelegent of their own safety. You really don't think people realize that a device that VAPORIZES liquids might be dangerous? I think we are mistaking the noobs for babbling idiots.

In all honesty, and with respect, I must insist that you are incorrect.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that people would realize a device that vaporizes liquids might be dangerous.

 

[Retriever]

I would still like to know what pv's were involved. I think it is only fair. It might drive sales away from the mfg., but it could also result in the truth coming out. If it was the user's fault, then we should know that too. I still think that the ecig is in its infancy and better devices will come along - it is just a matter of when. If it is a battery problem, then let us tackle it from that standpoint. In any event, we should know the details, but maybe it will come out in a court case. Sad to see it end that way though.

 

[DC2]

If someone does not know the exact definition of a word they latch onto an association from popular culture or their everyday lives. We use the word to descibe groovy sci fi effects such as that dude got hit with a laser and was just completely VAPORIZED!!!. Which would imply much more risk then even the reality; so a less educated individual would probably be more concerned because of the associated usage of the word. So I think it takes a special kind of person to miss the meaning of the word VAPORIZE in common culture as being dangerous.

You wrote INSIST bigger than I did, that's not fair!


If I walked down the street and asked 100 people if they think the electronic cigarette device itself could be dangerous...
I would be absolutely amazed if more than 25 of them said yes.

You think the average person knows that batteries can blow up.
And that is where you're wrong.

 

[Rocketman]

Heck, even most of us don't know what is safe or not safe when it comes to e-cigs and mods.
We can guess, based on judgment, but do we know?

If someone received a counterfeit protected Li-ion cell that was really unprotected, could most tell?
or received a LiMnNi cell that was advertised as having a 8C rating, but was really a 2C LiCoO2 cell, could most tell?
or received a metal mod (or even an eGo) that had a blow out plug in the bottom, would that make most people comfy?
or a mod, battery, charger started acting up, could most figure out which part to throw away?
or received some LR carto by mistake, would they just wonder why they don't taste right on 6 volts? or just ask "What is resistance anyway?".



The USPS should start selling Li-ion batteries for stacked battery mods.

They could use their ad line
"If it fits, it ships"

 

[DaveP]

Maybe some carefully crafted required reading should be a prerequisite to getting out of the new members forum. 5 posts and a read of the article and you get the run of the board after clicking, "I have read and understood ...".

It should not be long and complex. It should be something that explains the dangers of nicotine in high concentrations, skin absorption, DIY dangers, how to pick a mod, etc, with a concise explanation of why batteries explode and how to prevent it.

Hyperlinks could point the inquisitive user to the long form information.

 

[Rocketman]

That would be better than posting a bunch of silly little posts to get out of the new section.

I don't mean to imply than someone needs to be an EE and an ME to safely use a stacked battery mod, but I bet over 50% of the big expensive mod shoppers don't know 'Basic' Li-ion safety. And I'm giving the population at big break at 50%.

They don't know the basic stuff.

How about supplier affiliates? Any knowledge requirements there?
The same mods can often be found at the primary vendors sit, and a few affiliates, with different batteries offered.
Sometimes people even shop the classifieds. Yup, I'd buy a castoff mod to save a few bucks.
Juice and flavors are the most popular topic on ECF. After that it's "why did my e-cig stop working". Is safety in the top 10 topics?

 

[DaveP]

Heck, even most of us don't know what is safe or not safe when it comes to e-cigs and mods.
We can guess, based on judgment, but do we know?

If someone received a counterfeit protected Li-ion cell that was really unprotected, could most tell?
or received a LiMnNi cell that was advertised as having a 8C rating, but was really a 2C LiCoO2 cell, could most tell?
or received a metal mod (or even an eGo) that had a blow out plug in the bottom, would that make most people comfy?
or a mod, battery, charger started acting up, could most figure out which part to throw away?
or received some LR carto by mistake, would they just wonder why they don't taste right on 6 volts? or just ask "What is resistance anyway?".



The USPS should start selling Li-ion batteries for stacked battery mods.

They could use their ad line
"If it fits, it ships"

Most people enter the forum after having purchased a mall ecig and want to know what's better. We steer them to the Volt or eGo class ecigs and tell them about cartos. Mods usually come after they spend some time reading ECF. These days, tube and box mods are showcased on most vendor sites. I agree that there should be some red letter information presented while browsing and certainly in the box with a purchase.

I like SteelJan's video about the problem of atomizers and batteries being so universal. An eGo shouldn't be fitted with a dual coil and LR attys shouldn't work at high voltage, etc. Her idea was plug and play with threads and sockets only being available to run the correct hardware. It would be a complex undertaking. The other way is to design electronics that cut off at high amperage or control the voltage to keep the current level safe. That's what I'm seeing lately with mods like the Lavatube that reduce the voltage to keep amperage draw in range.

Still, batteries will blow up on chargers.

 

[Rocketman]

Then we would have to have adapters for the 'real men' that vape 1.5 ohms at high voltage.

We have charts showing how high you can run various cartos on various high voltage mods. Why?

Most just turn it up to see how high it goes, then complain that 15 watts is not enough.

Advanced mods should go to at least 20 watts.

Watt is a What anyway?

There is a wide range of vapers. For some, an 18650 mod lasts 2 days between charges. For others, about 6 to 8 hours (I know one).
A pair of little batteries last a heavy vaper maybe an hour or two even though people claim one or two days.
That's why they are looking for the Li-ion cell with the highest mah rating, and why the Chinese lie about ratings.

How long do a pair of 550 mah cells in a 6 volt stacked battery mod last? That's about 4 watt hours. I've seen 16340 cells advertised as having 1200mah. Those are the ones I want.


and it's not just NOOBS. There are some that have been vaping for 2 years or more that are just as ignorant of safety as the NOOB. Some buy up to ten of the same model just to get a different color or design on their mod.

Strike the unsafe mods from the signatures and avatars.
How's that for talking a responsible first step.